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Old 11-13-2018, 11:24 PM   #1201
foultone foultone is offline
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Originally Posted by BluProofie View Post
Hitch authorized the re-release and even did voiceovers saying it’s “The version TV didn’t show”. I find it strange that a cut version would be approved by him.
If the notion that that the current Blu-ray isn't definitive irks you so much, then ignore this new German release.
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:25 PM   #1202
thatguamguy thatguamguy is offline
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Originally Posted by foultone View Post
The "Official U.S. version" is, in point of fact, the snipped 1966 re-release.
For this story to be true, Hitchcock had to have saved all of his trims, then given possession of those to Universal when he sold them the movie, and then Universal would've had to go through and replace the bloody hand footage with the alternate shot of Norman entering the bathroom. I'm not saying that is impossible or even that it didn't happen, but it is hard to believe based on a single person's word. Hopefully, somebody can provide an actual record.

ETA: I have to admit, I find it very difficult to believe that Hitchcock would be so obsessive as to save that extra footage, but not actually save a print of the uncut film anywhere.

Last edited by thatguamguy; 11-13-2018 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:27 PM   #1203
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Originally Posted by thatguamguy View Post
For this story to be true, Hitchcock had to have saved all of his trims, then given possession of those to Universal when he sold them the movie, and then Universal would've had to go through and replace the bloody hand footage with the alternate shot of Norman entering the bathroom. I'm not saying that is impossible or even that it didn't happen, but it is hard to believe based on a single person's word. Hopefully, somebody can provide an actual record.
No shot is "replaced". Just cut.
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:38 PM   #1204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foultone View Post
If the notion that that the current Blu-ray isn't definitive irks you so much, then ignore this new German release.
It doesn’t. I just find it odd there is very little info on this. And again that Hitch would approve a cut version and then advertise it as the original version.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BHVPJUl_oV0
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:42 PM   #1205
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Originally Posted by foultone View Post
No shot is "replaced". Just cut.
That is inaccurate. The bloody hands shot where Norman enters the bathroom has been replaced (to avoid Norman suddenly appearing in the bathroom) with footage of Norman entering from a different angle.

https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=1921

Or compare 2:03 and 2:45 here. It's likely the same take of the same shot, but it's clearly not the same footage.

https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=1921
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:45 PM   #1206
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Originally Posted by BluProofie View Post
It doesn’t. I just find it odd there is very little info on this. And again that Hitch would approve a cut version and then advertise it as the original version.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BHVPJUl_oV0
As a sidebar - I'm having a hard trouble imagining what "Psycho" looked like on early 1960's network television. (Of course, if they were planning on selling the film to TV, that may explain why he saved replacement footage for the bloody hands shot.)
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:52 PM   #1207
foultone foultone is offline
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Originally Posted by thatguamguy View Post
That is inaccurate. The bloody hands shot where Norman enters the bathroom has been replaced (to avoid Norman suddenly appearing in the bathroom) with footage of Norman entering from a different angle.

https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=1921

Or compare 2:03 and 2:45 here. It's likely the same take of the same shot, but it's clearly not the same footage.

https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=1921
The tail of one shot and the head of another are cut in the 1966 version. It just cuts from the CU of Norman in the doorway to the sink. Examine this:

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Old 11-13-2018, 11:59 PM   #1208
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Whoops, the second link was supposed to be to that, not a dupe. Again, compare 2:03 to 2:45, there is footage in the "1966" version which is not in the "1960" version. The close-up of Norman's face ends in the "1960" version before the bathroom is even visible behind him. In the 1966 version, the camera stops moving and Norman walks out of the shot, which is nowhere to be found in the 1960 version, because they already had a shot of Norman entering the bathroom.
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Old 11-14-2018, 02:30 AM   #1209
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The extra stabs arguably make that scene worse, since the lack of blood on the knife is more noticeable.
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Old 11-14-2018, 03:13 AM   #1210
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Originally Posted by BluProofie View Post
It doesn’t. I just find it odd there is very little info on this. And again that Hitch would approve a cut version and then advertise it as the original version.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BHVPJUl_oV0
Do we know for sure when that re-release trailer is from?

If these cuts came post-theatrical release, it seems like the most reasonable guess for when they would occur would be when they switched ratings -- the Hays Code was getting more lax over the course of the 1960s, so why would they force cuts on something they had approved? Whereas the nascent MPAA might have cracked down a bit. So depending on when the re-release to which the trailer refers happened, it might have been pre-cuts. (Mind you, that is assuming that we can take Salesman Hitchcock at his word, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt.) Of course, it would help to know *when* the cuts were supposed to have been made...

Last edited by thatguamguy; 11-14-2018 at 03:43 AM.
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Old 11-14-2018, 08:27 AM   #1211
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I found some interesting information... according to the American Film Institute:

[Show spoiler]
On 19 Feb 1960, the PCA viewed the completed film, which it refused to approve. According to an internal memo, the film was rejected because of the beginning scene between Sam and Marion, which was “entirely too passionate”; a sexually suggestive line uttered by “Tom Cassidy”; and the shower murder sequence. The memo stated that the sequence had “a number of shots, some impressionistic, some completely realistic, of the girl’s nude body. All of these shots are in violation of the Code, which prohibits nudity ‘in fact or in silhouette.’” It was further declared that Norman watching Marion undress was too sexually suggestive and had to be cut so that he would only see her in her bra and slip rather than explicitly taking off her bra. On 3 Mar 1960, the office issued Paramount a seal of approval “based upon the revised scenes as reviewed in our projection room” the previous day, so presumably the cuts demanded by the PCA were made.
The Hitchcock papers reveal that the National Catholic Legion of Decency demanded three cuts before giving the picture a “B,” or “morally objectionable in part for all” rating. The Legion required that scenes of Marion removing her bra be deleted, that the shots showing Norman washing his hands of blood be shortened and that the number of times Arbogast is stabbed be reduced from four to two. Psycho was eventually issued the “B” rating by the Legion, which announced: “The sensational use of sex and the excessive violence, which partially mar the development of the story, are considered to be entirely lacking in dramatic justification and to be highly objectionable.”
Information in the Hitchcock Collection suggests that there was a “foreign version” of the picture, in which the opening sequence between Sam and Marion contained footage excised from the American release. A 21 Jun 1960 entry in HR 's "Rambling Reporter" column asserted that the European version would contain more nudity in the shower sequence. A Feb 1961 NYT story about Geoffrey I. Shurlock, the head of the PCA, reported that although Shurlock had been criticized for allowing the frank sequence, “it is known that this scene was much more torrid as filmed originally; Shurlock forced Hitchcock to reshoot the entire sequence to make it less sexy.” Modern sources allege, however, that Hitchcock offered to redo the sequence, but only if someone from the PCA office was present at the time to approve it, and when no PCA officials attended the scheduled reshoot, the matter was not pursued.

Elsewhere, on their details page, they have the information that there were two pick-up days of shooting, one on Feb 15th and one on March 1st. To me, the latter date seems to suggest that the opening was reshot to get approval from the PCA, and that the "Hitchcock tricked his way out of it" story is apocryphal, but I'm not going to say I'm sure about that.


So it seems like the "European" cut was made after the PCA / Hays people made some cuts, but before the three specific cuts which were made for the National Catholic Legion of Decency. If the Legion had given the film a "C", millions of members would have (theoretically) boycotted the film, so cuts were made to get the lighter B rating.

As much as I hate to agree with Bates Motel, that seems like pretty good specific evidence that the cuts pre-date the initial US theatrical release.

https://catalog.afi.com/Catalog/moviedetails/53260

Last edited by thatguamguy; 11-14-2018 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 11-14-2018, 09:32 AM   #1212
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Now we're getting somewhere! The AFI quote makes more sense than Hitch releasing an uncut version in 1960 and then keeping the trims to make the alternative footage for the blood-on-hands scene.
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Old 11-14-2018, 11:38 AM   #1213
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Never mind that rubbish. When are they going to CG the title on to the spine of the dirty book Lyla picks up in Norman's room. "Motel Moms And Their Sons"? That's what Hitch intended!
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Old 11-14-2018, 11:47 AM   #1214
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Will the extended cut ever be released on home video in the US?
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:39 PM   #1215
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Quote:
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Will the extended cut ever be released on home video in the US?
Hold on, I'll check..
[Show spoiler]


Last edited by Martoto; 11-14-2018 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:45 PM   #1216
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Quote:
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Will the extended cut ever be released on home video in the US?
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Old 11-14-2018, 01:05 PM   #1217
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I'd be happy with a standalone release in Germany. That box set is too rich for my blood. I'm willing to believe this is Hitchcock's preferred cut, but that's not enough to make me double dip on the sequels I do like and pay for the ones I don't.
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Old 11-14-2018, 02:53 PM   #1218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donl1282 View Post
Will the extended cut ever be released on home video in the US?
According to turbine in the German subforum:

Quote:
This is a Turbine & Universal joint product, and it's locked from int'l sublicensing for quite some years.
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Old 11-14-2018, 07:22 PM   #1219
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Yeah, but if Universal wanted to release it in the US no one is going to freakin' stop them.
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Old 11-15-2018, 01:52 AM   #1220
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Yeah Universal will never license this film out in the US, but they might do a 60th anniversary release in 2020 themselves with the unrated cut.
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