Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[BladeRunner2007]

Does anyone else wish that Lucas would release the '97 Special Editions on DVD or Blu-ray? I had a discussion with a couple of friends of mine. We all grew up with those '97 Special Editions on VHS. They all love this version the most (although they have seen the original versions!). I kinda like the '97 Special Editions too, but I like the original versions the best (even though I saw them after I saw the '97 Special Editions). It's kinda sad that these Special Editions only exists on VHS. I mean every other version is available on DVD except for the '97 Special Edition.

[crs]

Originally Posted by Blu-Raynger

crs,

You have the UK version of the box set, correct? Would you mind telling me what foreign language tracks the UK version includes? Your help would be most appreciated!

Thanks for your time!

I have the North European set. I can't say for sure if the UK discs will be identical, but most likely they will. Based on the audio/subtitle selection, I'm even more certain the US discs will be identical.

The movies have English 6.1 DTS-HD MA, English 5.1 DD descriptive audio, Spanish 5.1 DD, French 5.1 DD and Portuguese 5.1 DD.

Subtitles are English (HOH), Spanish, French, Dutch, Portuguese, Finnish, Swedish, Norwegian and Danish.

The commentaries are subtitled in the same languages.

[danny_boy]

Originally Posted by Breather

Blinder's, eh? LOL

It never made it into the film. Period. Your picture is from a documentary that shows that clip from the film. The green saber was used as test footage and the film clip with the green saber is used in the doc. They then show the blue they finally went with in the same documentary, lol. I have multiple copies of that documentary so I know it well. In theaters, the saber was never green. Last time we "talked" you tried to use a photograph of the TV set playing a 1982 VHS tape. I showed comparison screenshots proving you wrong about the sabers from '97 and '04 and you made up some story that I got them from Empire of Dreams, lol. Have fun.

Get your facts straight.
I never used a photograph of a TV.
I ripped my VHS to DVD-R and then used powerDVD to capture those stills.
Big difference.

I am also a member of OT.com---and I cross referenced my copy of the making of documentary with another member's copy which yielded identical results.

The saber remains mild green in that wideangle shot as seen in that clip from the film(in the documentary).

Now the saber does turn blu in this same documentary(again displaying the same "training onboard the falcon" clip from the film)---when it shows the close up of Luke's reactions:



So that clip--as seen in the documentary---is a good indication(if not entirely accurate) of how the film looked during it's theatrical engagement.

Some release prints featured a mild/whitish/ green saber in the wideangle shot---only to show a mildly blusih/white in subesequent shots:

Both screencaptures below taken from same making of SW documentary:


The original theatrical release of Star wars always had an inconsistent colour grading(be it intentional or otherwise) with regards to the sabers.




P.S
The empire of dreams documentary used clips from the 1997 special edition---not the remastered 2004 version.

[adywan]

Originally Posted by danny_boy

Luke's saber was potentially always mild green in that wideangle shot onboard the falcon(at least in either the original work or answer print)---or even some of the theatrical release prints.

The making of Star Wars documentary(that was broadcast on 9/16/1977) highlights this:

Here is the "template" shot which does not feature any optical composite effects:


Here is the optical element for Luke's saber(note the green tint):


Here it is composited into the template footage(but without the seeker ball optical effect)---The thickness of the glow is to be noted:


The following is what must be the 1st generation original work/answer print(that was to be used to generate the subsequent theatrical release prints)----again--note the luminosity of the saber:


And the final clip that the documentary used(which is from a theatrical release print(that had the mono audio track)----as you can see the glow of the saber is now much reduced:


And if you compare it to the 2004 DVD:


So maybe the bluray/2004 DVD master is not as unfaithful(in terms of the colour palette) as has been asserted.

If you look at the images in the old documentary the whole image has a yellow tint (and what do yellow and blue make? lol), which will cause blue to look more green. But the 2004 edition doesn't have the yellow tint yet the sabre is still green. It was always blue before 2004

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

The disdain of the Prequels, to this day, amazes me compared to the crap Hollywood spews out on a yearly basis....

There isn't as much disdain for those other movies because most of that crap isn't part of an existing series of movies that has been well loved and cherished for many, many years, and then (in the eyes of many fans of said series) comes along and craps all over the "legacy" of that series.

If a crappy movie comes out that isn't a sequel to, prequel to, or otherwise connected to some other movie that I really, really enjoy, then I can just ignore it. If I see the ads for it and it's already looking bad just from that, I can go, "well, that looks like crap" and move on. However, prequels to one of the most successful, influential, and beloved trilogies in film history that many people had been anticipating for many years... that's a whole different ball game.

Originally Posted by Jumpman

Reading various home theater and movie forums this morning, people are really angry about what's been done. I keep hearing the chorus of "cancelling pre-orders" left and right on almost every forum.

I figured this would've died down a bit but I guess I underestimated the love of the theatrical cuts and the hatred towards Lucas.

Hell, maybe he did cross the line I haven't come to terms with it.

I'm still in for the set on the 16th but man, I feel like my legs are a bit wobbly about this. I mean, do the films really need a rescan, considering I think the screencaps look pretty damn great?

I mean, there are people who are completely BENT about what's transpired. I've honestly never seen anything like this!

I'm very conflicted over this, myself. On the one hand, I really, really don't like the "No. Noooooooo." at the end of ROTJ, and I do feel that it is a pointless addition that only detracts from what is not only the climax of that movie, but is also the climax of the entire Star Wars Saga.

On the other hand, it is just a few seconds out of one of the movies. The only other brand new change (that I am aware of) for these Blu-Rays that really bugs me at all is Obi Wan's new howl, and only because it's so laughable. Otherwise, stuff like the Ewok eyes, etc, don't really bother me.

So, the conflict for me comes in in the sense that I know will be getting this Blu-Ray set , even though in principle I do otherwise support the boycott and give a big thumbs up to anyone who is canceling their orders/not planning on getting the set over this.

I don't know how much of an impact those people will have on overall sales. It could be a lot... it could be a little. Only time will tell on that. Are they just a "vocal minority", or has it spread just beyond that? I guess time will tell.

Hopefully at least most of these people don't back pedal and end up buying the set after proclaiming that they won't. Or if they do, hopefully they at least wait a while. It's usually the initial couple of weeks or so that a release like this will see it's biggest rush of sales. So anything to impact that will be good, IMO, to send a message to Lucas.

On the one hand, this could be nothing more than a vocal minority who will amount to little more than a blip on the radar when it comes to effecting sales.

On the other hand... while the Blu-Ray format overall is successful and doing well, it's still not quite as mainstream as DVD was by the same point in it's lifespan, and I think at least a part of the success can be attributed to some of the sales on movies that we've see in the last year or two. There are many catalog titles that are or have been at some point available for at or under $10. This was pretty much unheard of 5 years into DVD's lifespan.

I do think that the "enthusiasts", many of whom are likely those who are angry over this, could potentially have a bigger impact this time around than they did with the 2004 DVD set. Plus in the case of that version, I don't think quite as much was known about it as early as it is with this set. Not to mention that back then, while we had the internet, social networking wasn't around and you pretty much had to be going out of your way to look up info on the (then) upcoming Star Wars DVD set. Now the outrage this time has spread and is falling into people's laps.

I just think between the things that should have been fixed but apparently weren't (the color timing issues, lightsaber problems/effects, etc), and the newer, pointless additions, people are just getting more and more fed up. Hopefully this has enough of an impact to make Lucas consider release the original versions or even a set with several versions of each movie (similar to the Blade Runner set).



As for your rescan question.... If I understand the situation correctly (and I'm sure Adywan can correct me on anything I may misspeak on), the only way to really fix the inherent problems is pretty much to do a rescan or go back to some kind of source from prior to the color timing adjustments that were done for the 2004 release.

If I am not mistaken, the problem here is that the color timing was done before many of the new changes were done back in 2004 (i.e. the new version of CGI Jabba in ANH, Ian as the Emperor in TESB, Hayden in ROTJ). So, the issue here is that in order to fix this correctly, they'd basically have to go back and rescan the films or otherwise go back to some source from before the coloring time and new changes/effects were added in, and then completely redo all of the work of adding those things back into the movie... and of course reading any new visual changes done for the Blu-Ray set.

This is what I don't get about Lucas.... between the 2004 DVD set and this upcoming Blu-Ray set, a lot of things just seemed to be done in a very half-assed manner. I know the man is budge conscious and doesn't want to lose a ton of money in the process of updating these movies. But the guy has resources the likes of which most filmmakers can only dream of. Even if he spends a ton of money fixing the problems, smoothing out the oudated effects, etc, and doesn't fully recoup it in sales, he's still going to be insanely rich when all is said and done. If he is so concerned about his "artistic integrity", when not utilize the insane amount of resources that he has available and go the full-nine in fixing the real issues with the movies, rather than adding things like the pointless "Nooooo." in ROTJ? Even though I disagree with it, I can kind of understand him not wanting to spend the money to restore the UOT if it truly is expensive and if he no longer considers that to be the verison of Star Wars that he wants out there.... but why not at least spend the money to give the Blu-Ray with the updates the proper treatment?

It's been well known for some time that the UOT was NOT going to be included with this set. I don't think anyone expected it to be... and I think most everyone expected the changes from 2004 to still be present and some degree of further changes to exist on this set. As such, all that he had to do to avoid the level of backlash that he is now getting is avoid making any further changes that people would find offensive or detrimental to the power of a scene of the movie (i.e. the "Nooooo"), and correct the problems from the 2004 release. (And heck, I think completely redoing the lightsaber effects in the updated versions OT would have actually been welcomed by most people, even those otherwise wanting the UOT to be released. It's one of the few effects that still stand out like a sore thumb at times, particularly in ANH).

But he screwed that up royally. And people are reacting, and it's about time.

It may be his "right" to do this, but it's everyone else's right to choose not to buy it and/or complain about and protest the changes. He can continue to be as stubborn over these things as he wants to be, but now it's starting to really bite him in the butt.

Originally Posted by Jumpman

The sad thing about all this controversy is that the set and the reviewers won't get a fair shake.

If a reviewer, who's been following the controversy, agrees with the controversy and yet gives the set a stellar rating, they'll get criticized to no end. It'll get very ugly for said reviewer.

This set is a lose lose, even if it's better than 95% of the rest of the Blu Ray packages out there...just because some thing their childhood's are disappearing with the Special Editions.

Well, the whole thing is a slippery slope and a huge cluster-****.

Color timing and light saber coloring issues aside, the PQ for the movies could be otherwise great. But how does one fairly review that? On the one hand, the color timing for many people is a very important aspect of these films. What good is an otherwise ideal picture if the coloring is all wrong? This wouldn't be an issue if Lucas had made sure that things didn't get so screwed up in the first place.

[Breather]

Originally Posted by BladeRunner2007

Does anyone else wish that Lucas would release the '97 Special Editions on DVD or Blu-ray? I had a discussion with a couple of friends of mine. We all grew up with those '97 Special Editions on VHS. They all love this version the most (although they have seen the original versions!). I kinda like the '97 Special Editions too, but I like the original versions the best (even though I saw them after I saw the '97 Special Editions). It's kinda sad that these Special Editions only exists on VHS. I mean every other version is available on DVD except for the '97 Special Edition.

I don't see the '97 or '04 versions ever making it to BD. Instead of VHS, get yourself a laserdisc player and buy these:

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Trilogy-Laser-Special/dp/B000UJQ9WE/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1315144188&sr=8-3


They'll look a LOT better than your VHS and can be had fairly cheap. Watch them on LD or transfer them to dvd-r.

[Brightstar]

Will these changes appear in the 3D versions too?

[Adam_ME]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

I never quite got it either but after the Special Edtion of 1997, a lot of people would never give the prequels a chance, they already hated them before them came out.

That's not true at all. I had my share of issues with the Special Editions, but I didn't grow to hate them until Lucas made it clear he intended to replace the originals on a permanent basis with the newer versions. And the first sign of that was in either 2000 or 2001 when Lucasfilm and Fox re-released the Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition on VHS, but this time without the "Special Edition" label anywhere on the package. It was then that myself and a lot of other Star Wars started to grow concerned that the originals were being phased out of existence.

The Phantom Menace, I'm sure you'll recall, came out in May 1999, a full year or two before this Special Edition VHS incident. I was there opening night at the midnight showing eagerly awaiting the movie. I'd read the script and actually thought it was really good, so I fully expected a kickass flick despite the mixed reviews. What I got was....less than kickass, let's put it that way. I'll say this much. I'd never in my life criticized someone's performance while watching a movie in the theater. That night however I turned to the person I was with during the dinner scene and commented that Jake Lloyd was terrible. Maybe one of the worst acting jobs I've ever witnessed in a motion picture. The fact that he never acted again(at least not in a major role as far I'm aware) shows that I wasn't alone in this sentiment.

And before you say that I was never prepared to give Episodes II and III a fair chance, I was at the midnight showings for both of those as well. And I actually really liked Episode II. It wasn't on par with the Holy Trilogy of course, but I thought it was a soild entry in the series and felt far much more like a Star Wars flick than TPM. I eagerly anticipated Episode III....which promptly sucked just as badly or even worse than TPM. At least TPM had the podrace and some kickass lightsaber action with Darth Maul. Plus Episode III had a lot to deliver on in terms of Anakin's turn and the fall of the Jedi. Here it is 6 years later, I've seen the movie several times, and for the life of me I'm still trying to figure out what exactly made the dude decide it was a wise decision to slaughter his surrogate family(including a bunch of kids) so that a conniving, mass-murdering Sith Lord who'd deceived Anakin along with the entire galaxy for over a decade could allegedly teach him how to cheat death. Uh huh. Right. And don't get me started on the infamous "NOOO!" scene which effectively ruined Darth Vader or Padme dying because she'd lost the will to live(those two newborns ain't motivation enough to go on, woman?) or the superfluous General Grevious wasting precious screentime or the horrible overacting by Ian McDiarmid post-transformation or how said transformation makes no sense given how much Force lightning Luke endured in ROTJ without so much as a scratch or how the plot completely ignores the Jedi Archive storyline from Episode II(not even a throwaway line to explain it, George?) or how the Rebellion's birth was left on the cutting room floor or how the Force ghost technique was apparently taught to Yoda by Qui-Gon and then passed on to Obi-Wan.....yet we're supposed to accept that Anakin/Vader somehow learned it on his own after having turned to the Dark Side or.....well I could be here all day. Red Letter Media tore that movie apart far better than I ever could.

Bottom line, I gave the prequels a chance. I liked one of them. But Lucas dropped the ball big-time on the other two. All the tinkering in the world won't make a difference. In fact I wish he'd leave well enough alone, but I guess it's too late for that.

[double_l4488]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

The disdain of the Prequels, to this day, amazes me compared to the crap Hollywood spews out on a yearly basis...

It has just become something people say. Don't get me wrong TPM is awful, so bad. Episode III, by any standards is very good movie, much better than ROTJ.

If a reviewer, who's been following the controversy, agrees with the controversy and yet gives the set a stellar rating, they'll get criticized to no end. It'll get very ugly for said reviewer.

Hopefully the reviewers take into account the ridiculous nature of the changes and its unfortuante so many people will just accept it b/c it star wars in hd, even though its all f@cked up. With everybody buying these things, the UOT the way it should be seen in 1080 will never happen.

Originally Posted by joliefan

Will these changes appear in the 3D versions too?

TPM is the only one being done in 3-d.

[danny_boy]

Originally Posted by adywan

If you look at the images in the old documentary the whole image has a yellow tint (and what do yellow and blue make? lol), which will cause blue to look more green. But the 2004 edition doesn't have the yellow tint yet the sabre is still green. It was always blue before 2004

Yeah I am aware of that---but again why does that yellow tint not affect Luke's blu saber in the close up reaction shot---or for that matter---Obi-Wan's blu(okay--very mild) saber as seen in the same making of documentary:




There is a clear discrepancy between the optical greenish element used for Lukes saber(seen below right) and the optical blusih elements used for Obi(below left).

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Breather

Same here. On the other hand...

http://www.thinkgeek.com/interests/looflirpa/e8be/

That's awesome!

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

The disdain of the Prequels, to this day, amazes me compared to the crap Hollywood spews out on a yearly basis....

It polluted the greatest movie franchise ever...not really hard to see why it's loathed so much.

[KS76]

Originally Posted by BladeRunner2007

Does anyone else wish that Lucas would release the '97 Special Editions on DVD or Blu-ray? I had a discussion with a couple of friends of mine. We all grew up with those '97 Special Editions on VHS. They all love this version the most (although they have seen the original versions!). I kinda like the '97 Special Editions too, but I like the original versions the best (even though I saw them after I saw the '97 Special Editions). It's kinda sad that these Special Editions only exists on VHS. I mean every other version is available on DVD except for the '97 Special Edition.

Perhaps once all the 3D movies have run their course in the theaters approx 2018 or so we'll get an Ultimate Edition release: 3D saga, 2011 BD edition, 2004 DVD's, 97 Special Editions, and UOT all in one box set. It'll be around the 40 th anniversary of the movies and that would be an ideal time for the ultimate cash in

[goldenrod]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

The disdain of the Prequels, to this day, amazes me compared to the crap Hollywood spews out on a yearly basis....

I ranked TPM #1 among the prequels and #3 overall. For me there's 1 scene in both AOTC and ROTS that I can't stand and find completely useless.

AOTC: The droid factory scene.... 3PO falling and grabbing the edge of the platform before the head swamp and finally when we see both droids in the arena.

ROTS: The boarding of the Invisible Hand: R2-D2 destroying the super battle droids and the 2 elevator scenes. The Jedi are very lucky that an elevator dor was left opened for them to escape through it before being crushed.

Removing these scenes and, for ROTS, adding the birth of the rebellion scenes instead would have improved the movie and Padmé's role in it.

[amoergosum]

"People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians." George Lucas, 1988

The website Save Star Wars dug up a transcript of Lucas testifying before Congress in 1988 pleading for lawmakers to enact laws that would … wait for it … prevent anyone from using advances in digital technology to make changes to films, arguing that films belong to the public more than they do the copyright holders, who he contends are merely custodians of art owned by the people. He then calls on Congress to, in the interest of preserving America’s cultural heritage, use its power to do whatever it can to preserve films as they were when they were originally released.

Source:
http://www.uproxx.com/media/2011/09/...e-was-for-him/

[SwissHD]

Originally Posted by Cinescott

V, IV, III, II, and tied for last I and VI, with TPM having the slight nod as worst.

Im a bit shocked. But its a matter of opinion i know.

VI is a very good movie for me with some flaws but also some of the best Scenes in the whole saga. And the flaws are never like the shitty Prequels.
I don't understand how you can like the Love-Crapfest Episode II "I like sand" LOL more than Episode VI. I honestly don't get that.

The Vader/Emperor/Luke Scenes in VI alone are even equal as ESB in terms of "greatness".
The only reason ROTJ falls short of ESB are other little things.

My favourites:
1. EP V (a perfect movie for me. It has drama, love, Action...everything! And well balanced
2. EP VI (i just love the Vader/Emperor/Luke thing so much. And while i find the ewoks a bit childish i'm not that offended by them as others are. Also the Space Battles are top notch)
3. EP IV (a bit dated and without that rythm of V and VI but still the original and still very good)

I hate the Prequels.
I only like 2/3 of EP III. And even this parts have flaws.

Greetings

[phil4853]

Originally Posted by crs

I have the North European set. I can't say for sure if the UK discs will be identical, but most likely they will. Based on the audio/subtitle selection, I'm even more certain the US discs will be identical.

The movies have English 6.1 DTS-HD MA, English 5.1 DD descriptive audio, Spanish 5.1 DD, French 5.1 DD and Portuguese 5.1 DD.

Subtitles are English (HOH), Spanish, French, Dutch, Portuguese, Finnish, Swedish, Norwegian and Danish.

The commentaries are subtitled in the same languages.

CRS...


Can you answer this please...the UK set box rear has only English listed as a subtitle...does your box have all the subtitles you mention listed on the box or only English??? Thanks mate!

[Shaft Windu]

It's quite puzzling to me that the same "fans" who want the OUT without CGI-additions are the same people who want all the OT-lightsabers to be replaced by new prequel-style blades. Lucas was always very respectful of the work that was put in the original effects, masks, puppets and performances. Otherwise the changes could have gone much, much further. The fan-reaction is a disgrace!

James Earl Jones was always a more important part of the Vader-persona to me than David Prowse. This new final scream of agony when Anakin breaks free of the Dark Side is very powerful a clear improvement. It's just out of spite that "fans" don't like it.

[goldenrod]

Originally Posted by amoergosum

"People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians." George Lucas, 1988



Source:
http://www.uproxx.com/media/2011/09/...e-was-for-him/

I am wondering, if that bill would have passed, then would we have the LOTR extended edition, the wonderful cuts of Cameron's The Abyss and Aliens etc. etc.?

[Breather]

Originally Posted by danny_boy

P.S
The empire of dreams documentary used clips from the 1997 special edition---not the remastered 2004 version.

Get my facts straight? You will try anything even when you're wrong. Your shots above are BLUE, not mild green. Only the test footage had green. Just like before, your own pictures prove you wrong! LOL. Do you realize that you just spent over an hour between posts to locate shots that prove you wrong? I have the documentary too! Your original post showed the green lightsaber from the test footage in the documentary which you tried to pass off as proving the film had a green lightsaber. I then pointed out that the same documentary then shows the blue lightsaber that they eventually went with, which you conveniently left out of your first post.

These new shots you posted show the green test saber from the documentary and two shots of a BLUE ONE !! You've only helped my case and you posted blue shots while claiming it's mild green. You shot yourself in the foot like this last time.

I predict if one day ANH is released with Luke having a yellow lightsaber and we point out it's wrong, you'll post a picture of the Kenner Luke action figure with the yellow lightsaber as your proof that yellow sabers were supposed to be in the film.

You claimed my '97 screenshots were from "Empire of Dreams", as if that would matter anyway, when they weren't. Facts again?

You seem to have some issue of not being able to accept when you're wrong. You lose the argument when others post facts and/or screenshots disproving your claims. You then try to post more screenshots from dubious shots that actually prove you wrong! You're so desperate to be right that you just tried to pass off documentary footage as proof the saber was green, when the same documentary shows the blue saber they went with. I point this out and your new shots clearly show a blue saber and you call it mild green, lol. Sorry man, you're wrong and once again, you did my work for me and proved it yourself. Accept it and move on. Last word-itis didn't work out too well for you before either.