Upgrade to 7.1?

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by mrhonda2

Room size is not the main ingredient here. If you are setting up in a closet, OK I agree probably not worth it. There are way too many 7.1 haters around. You also don't have to do it expensive. As long as you're system can handle lossless one way or another, it is well worth it. Too many people believe what they read in the magazines and on the web then bring their biased opinions in here, most not even hearing for themselves.
Denon 4308CI
Paradigm Monitors V4, full 7.1 set-up
PS3(what else?)
Room size 12X13
Smile on my face...priceless

Personally, I think there might be too many people trying to justify their 7.1 systems. While I'll admit, the 7.1 SPEAKER LAYOUT is pretty important. But discrete 7.1 is not. You're not supposed to get distracted by extra effects in the rears or anything like that. Any professional sound designer will tell you that they don't want to distract, they want to enhance. Which is why a lot of the surround speakers are designed the way they are. To fill the room and make it harder to tell where one specific sound is coming from. More of a "fill in the gaps" way of doing things. Not to mention none of the movies in 7.1 were ever originally intended to be in 7.1 (as of me writing this anyway). They were all meant for either 5.1 or 5.1 EX/ES.

[sowecrazy]

i have a 7.1 set-up via an onkyo 605, and the audussy really is awsum, movies mixed in 7.1 are awsum like 3:10 to yuma sounds amazing, i can really tell a difference, and movies like titanic witch has DTS 6.1 discrete, just sounds more full, and DD EX sounds ok, i hear minor sounds back there, but x-men 3 on blu-ray is awsum, the scene where magneto and pyro throw the flaming cars is sick, sounds so real. 6.1 or 7.1 disctete sounds way better that it being matrixed out, sounds louder and more full. i do agree, placement is key to suround sound , sounding good

[mrhonda2]

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

Personally, I think there might be too many people trying to justify their 7.1 systems. While I'll admit, the 7.1 SPEAKER LAYOUT is pretty important. But discrete 7.1 is not. You're not supposed to get distracted by extra effects in the rears or anything like that. Any professional sound designer will tell you that they don't want to distract, they want to enhance. Which is why a lot of the surround speakers are designed the way they are. To fill the room and make it harder to tell where one specific sound is coming from. More of a "fill in the gaps" way of doing things. Not to mention none of the movies in 7.1 were ever originally intended to be in 7.1 (as of me writing this anyway). They were all meant for either 5.1 or 5.1 EX/ES.

Are you sure you are not mixing up discrete and matrix? An earlier post you mentioned PLIIx which is no where near lossless 7.1. Have you honestly heard a 7.1 set-up(not in a store). I think you're too quick to judge.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by mrhonda2

Are you sure you are not mixing up discrete and matrix? An earlier post you mentioned PLIIx which is no where near lossless 7.1. Have you honestly heard a 7.1 set-up(not in a store). I think you're too quick to judge.

I think you might be getting things mixed up. PLIIx has nothing to do with lossless sound. It can be applied to it if that's what you mean. And yes, I have a 7.1 reciever as well. But I prefer to use my 5.1 reciever with THX Select2.

[mrhonda2]

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

I think you might be getting things mixed up. PLIIx has nothing to do with lossless sound. It can be applied to it if that's what you mean. And yes, I have a 7.1 reciever as well. But I prefer to use my 5.1 reciever with THX Select2.

What I meant was PLIIx vs Dolby THD/DTSHDMA from a 7.1 perspective. The latter of the 2 are discrete from the BD. PLIIx while watching a 2 channel source(such as several channels on my dish) does not mean it is now 7.1. Is your reciever a real 7.1 or one of the crap ones marketed as 7.1? I'm not trying to be an idiot with this but there are recievers claiming "7.1" that are only capable of PLIIx without hdmi or ext in. Therefore you would never get true 7.1.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by mrhonda2

What I meant was PLIIx vs Dolby THD/DTSHDMA from a 7.1 perspective. The latter of the 2 are discrete from the BD. PLIIx while watching a 2 channel source(such as several channels on my dish) does not mean it is now 7.1. Is your reciever a real 7.1 or one of the crap ones marketed as 7.1? I'm not trying to be an idiot with this but there are recievers claiming "7.1" that are only capable of PLIIx without hdmi or ext in. Therefore you would never get true 7.1.

Ohhhh I see what you were saying. I meant using it with a 5.1 source. Which still is pretty much a matrixed thing, but it still gives to you the same effect. It actually would give you a better effect when using a 5.1 source instead of a discrete 7.1 source.

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

Personally, I think there might be too many people trying to justify their 7.1 systems.

All you need to justify it is the existence of blu-ray discs with 7.1 tracks. I just popped in a great one the other night, Exiled.

While I'll admit, the 7.1 SPEAKER LAYOUT is pretty important. But discrete 7.1 is not.

It is to the sound engineer who developed the 7.1 track.

You're not supposed to get distracted by extra effects in the rears or anything like that. Any professional sound designer will tell you that they don't want to distract, they want to enhance.

Be more specific. If a gunfight has erupted offscreen or a car is crashing offscreen, a good sound designer will make the effort to assign the noises of those effects to the appropriate area around the listener. Granted, you don't need 7 separate speakers to make this happen, but if a BD has a 7.1 track, why wouldn't you want to listen to it? It isn't a matter of distracting or enhancing, it's a matter of reproducing what's on the disc. If a 7.1 track exists on the BD and you've only got a 5.1 system, you're not going to be able to reproduce the track as it was engineered.

Which is why a lot of the surround speakers are designed the way they are. To fill the room and make it harder to tell where one specific sound is coming from.

No, no, no! The goal for any speaker is to take the signal and produce the audio without coloring it or muddying it. The goal of a good RECORDING ENGINEER is to make the stereophonics such that sounds appear to not be "stuck to the speakers", which is what you're talking about in terms of filling the room. But we should be able to pinpoint where a specific noise is coming from in the soundstage. Surround speakers shouldn't make it hard to tell where a noise is.

Not to mention none of the movies in 7.1 were ever originally intended to be in 7.1 (as of me writing this anyway). They were all meant for either 5.1 or 5.1 EX/ES.

Point taken, but some were remixed for Blu-ray in 7.1 and to hear the new mix, you really need a 7.1 system. I hasten to point out, the Godfather was never originally intended to be 5.1, but I bet you'll want to hear what Paramount does to the mix.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by Gremal

All you need to justify it is the existence of blu-ray discs with 7.1 tracks. I just popped in a great one the other night, Exiled.



It is to the sound engineer who developed the 7.1 track.



Be more specific. If a gunfight has erupted offscreen or a car is crashing offscreen, a good sound designer will make the effort to assign the noises of those effects to the appropriate area around the listener. Granted, you don't need 7 separate speakers to make this happen, but if a BD has a 7.1 track, why wouldn't you want to listen to it? It isn't a matter of distracting or enhancing, it's a matter of reproducing what's on the disc. If a 7.1 track exists on the BD and you've only got a 5.1 system, you're not going to be able to reproduce the track as it was engineered.



No, no, no! The goal for any speaker is to take the signal and produce the audio without coloring it or muddying it. The goal of a good RECORDING ENGINEER is to make the stereophonics such that sounds appear to not be "stuck to the speakers", which is what you're talking about in terms of filling the room. But we should be able to pinpoint where a specific noise is coming from in the soundstage. Surround speakers shouldn't make it hard to tell where a noise is.



Point taken, but some were remixed for Blu-ray in 7.1 and to hear the new mix, you really need a 7.1 system. I hasten to point out, the Godfather was never originally intended to be 5.1, but I bet you'll want to hear what Paramount does to the mix.

That is more my point. At no point should something behind the listener become distracting. And by fill the room with sound I mean more fill in the gaps. I am also not saying "don't use 7.1!!!" But I am saying that if you use 5.1 with Surround EX, PLIIx, or even the THX processing modes, you'll get the same effect as a 7.1 track. Unless the film was actually mixed for 7.1. Like right now, if you take a 7.1 Blu-Ray, those extra sounds that were originally in the side channels and then moved to the rears for 7.1, end up just getting stuck in the sides when playing the track. Where as if the film was in 5.1 and you enabled PLIIx or any of the other modes I was talking about, there's more of a chance of the sound coming from the right area of the room. Get what I am saying?

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

That is more my point. At no point should something behind the listener become distracting. And by fill the room with sound I mean more fill in the gaps.

That depends on how the mix is engineered. If the car crash is assigned to the rear surround and side surround speakers equally, it will tend to image equidistant between those speakers, whereas if it is mixed solely to the rear surround, it will image to that channel.

But I am saying that if you use 5.1 with Surround EX, PLIIx, or even the THX processing modes, you'll get the same effect as a 7.1 track. Unless the film was actually mixed for 7.1. Like right now, if you take a 7.1 Blu-Ray, those extra sounds that were originally in the side channels and then moved to the rears for 7.1, end up just getting stuck in the sides when playing the track. Where as if the film was in 5.1 and you enabled PLIIx or any of the other modes I was talking about, there's more of a chance of the sound coming from the right area of the room. Get what I am saying?

It's not that simple. Remixes in 7.1 can put discreet sounds in the rear and sides for different imaging than you get in 5.1, just as 5.1 remixes assign discreet sounds differently than in original two-channel or mono mixes. To hear a 7.1 BD as it was intended to be heard, you need a 7.1 system.

[Clark Kent]

Obviously with all other things being equal a 7.1 setup will beat a 5.1 setup in sound immersion. You have to consider though how much true 7.1 content there really is to play. Even on Blu-ray releases the number of 7.1 mixed soundtracks is very small. I'm happy right now with just a 5.1 setup and waiting to see if more true 7.1 content comes out.

[Steve]

I skimmed through some of the above posts briefly so I may have overlooked this. I'm not so much concerned about your room size so much as the layout. Are you physically able to place 7.1 speakers where they are supposed to go? That would be BEHIND you. If your seating position is up against the back wall (like in my house) then adding the additional speakers in their proper location becomes a little difficult. Not impossible, but certainly not as easy. Under ideal circumstances your speakers should be laid out like they are in this diagram.

http://www.avtruths.com/speaker.html

If you're not able to put them where they're supposed to be then you may not get the full effect they're meant to provide. Others may disagree, but that's my opinion.