Star Trek: The Next Generation - Season 7 (1993-1994) / All Good Things (1994)

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

I'm sorry, but I already paid $120+/season for the series on DVD. Knowing now how little effort was needed to produce those, I felt a bit righteous in being able to get the entire series on Blu-ray at such a bargain price ($210ish).

So you decide not to reward extraordinary effort instead?

Not to mention media value and all. DVD pricing and Blu-ray pricing isn't the same either.

I can think of a lot of stuff (particularly in the electronics world) that was much more expensive turn of the century compared to now. Doesn't mean they don't have value. I paid $35-$40 for movies on LaserDisc (in 1990s dollars) with much less quality than today's new releases. $50-$60 for a season of a rebuilt TNG is not outrageous at all.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Petey Parker

Better ask those gifters how much they paid, this is serious business here friend. While you're at it, you should message that eBay seller just to make sure they originally paid full price.

Nobody was asking FULL PRICE. They were asking release day pricing. Your "sarcasm" is a strawman argument.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Nobody was asking FULL PRICE. They were asking release day pricing. Your "sarcasm" is a strawman argument.

Yup. Studio insiders will tell you all day long that opening weekend is what matters for movies and early release week sales at full price are what matter for home video. Every purchase or no-purchase is a vote for what you want to see in the future.

[WhySoBlu?]

Sorry gents, but this is a hobby. I'm not buying movies and TV shows in HD to prop up the industry, I'm buying them to enjoy them in HD. I've been buying BD players (my first one was ~$900) and movies since January of 2007 - I've done my part for this format.

If there was truly a market for DS9 and Voyager, it wouldn't have mattered that some of us held out for the complete set - that happens all the time with TV series releases. Hell, the studios count on that being the case. If they didn't want me buying a £60.00 set, they shouldn't have a region free set readily available at that price point - any more than they should have released the American equivalent. It's not like we bought bootlegs or something - there's absolutely nothing wrong with buying the set.

Instead of aiming your anger and butt-hurt-fueled rage at fellow enthusiasts, how about directing it towards the idiots torrenting everything they watch. How about directing it towards the people going digital only? We have a whole section of the site dedicated to finding and sharing the best deals to help our collections grow, yet there's this small group of angry self-righteous individuals who feel the need to browbeat people for being savvy shoppers.

I'm sorry they're not releasing DS9 and Voyager. Blame the lack of interest from consumers - a lot of them aren't interested in buying discs at all, let alone $90 individual seasons of a show from the late 80s and early 90s. Blame it on the rights holders failing to secure lucrative enough licensing deals to offset some of the costs involved to make the price more attractive to consumers. Blame it on Rio. If it'll really make you feel better (and maybe even put you in a better mood,) you can even blame me.

[WhySoBlu?]

Originally Posted by Michael24

"Time's Arrow" is awesome. Definitely one of my favorites. Jerry Hardin played a terrific Mark Twain.

[Show spoiler]"Werewolf!"

[Vandal Savage]

DS9 and Voyager were longshots on blu-ray, anyway.

TNG was always more popular than the other two series anyway, and, blu-ray sales figures aside, TNG is also going to get more interest from the syndication market than the other two.

BBCAmerica might as well be the Star Trek The Next Generation Channel. According to my DVR, there are over 120 showings over the next two weeks. Nobody is showing DS9 or Voyager.

I have to wonder if the HD remaster of TNG was less about releasing it to blu-ray, and more about upgrading it for syndication (and streaming). And while Paramount was doing it, they went ahead and released the HD remasters to blu-ray in order to amortize the costs.

[Jlouisbarrett]

Well, I wouldn't really say it was necessarily a "long shot" -- toward the beginning of the remastering project, the team working on it specifically said that if sales were good they'd do DS9 and Voyager next.

[Mighty Max]

Originally Posted by Jlouisbarrett

Well, I wouldn't really say it was necessarily a "long shot" -- toward the beginning of the remastering project, the team working on it specifically said that if sales were good they'd do DS9 and Voyager next.

That was a lie, just to get people to go out and buy the sets.
If they really were going to do DS9 and Voyager, there would have been work started on them long ago just to see how much it would have cost.
No work was ever done. No vaults or canisters were ever opened. They have no idea how much or how little it will cost to do those two shows.

TNG was redone in HD only because it was already paid for in full by streaming and syndication rights.
The blu-ray money was just extra money for them!

[BerryTheMusicMan]

Originally Posted by Mighty Max

That was a lie, just to get people to go out and buy the sets.
If they really were going to do DS9 and Voyager, there would have been work started on them long ago just to see how much it would have cost.
No work was ever done. No vaults or canisters were ever opened. They have no idea how much or how little it will cost to do those two shows.

TNG was redone in HD only because it was already paid for in full by streaming and syndication rights.
The blu-ray money was just extra money for them!

Here's a dollar , go buy a clue ...

[WhySoBlu?]

Originally Posted by Lava_Lander

Incorrect on several counts. People act like dollars earned by TNG sales were going to right into a DS9/VOY project bank account or something; it doesn't work that way.

Sales of the TNG sets told CBS if there was a market for additional Trek remastering products. People didn't buy the sets in significant quantities, which tells them that costly remasters of the additional shows (which each are less popular than TNG) would be an even worse financial return on investment.

How many sets needed to be sold for the demand to be considered large enough to greenlight the other shows? How many units did we come up short by? At what price point do the sets stop being considered a sale that counts versus one that's causing DS9 to not be released?

Originally Posted by Lava_Lander

They can quite easily determine projected costs of doing DS9/VOY without "opening up the canisters", extrapolating from the cost of the TNG project, plus estimates of the additional requirements for the large quantities of CG work needed on the other shows. They don't need to "start working on them" to determine a price for the project; any organization would do a cost projection before work begins. That's how budgets are determined.

They can come up with a rough idea of course, but without actually seeing what condition the elements are in (and how many tiny pieces of film they're going to have to search for like they did with TNG,) they won't really know how extensive the restorations will have to be, which means they really don't know how much it will cost. It's one thing to base an estimate on past restorations and quite another to base it on the actual condition of the materials being used. I think that was his point.

[dcowboy7]

Originally Posted by Vandal Savage

BBCAmerica might as well be the Star Trek The Next Generation Channel.
According to my DVR, there are over 120 showings over the next two weeks.
Nobody is showing DS9 or Voyager.

They are showing TNG more than usual these few wks but thats due to being the trek 50 anniversary.

Also youre wrong that nobody is showing DS9.
H&I (channel 19 on fios) shows DS9 weeknights 11:00pm.

[Mighty Max]

Originally Posted by WhySoBlu?

How many sets needed to be sold for the demand to be considered large enough to greenlight the other shows? How many units did we come up short by? At what price point do the sets stop being considered a sale that counts versus one that's causing DS9 to not be released?

They can come up with a rough idea of course, but without actually seeing what condition the elements are in (and how many tiny pieces of film they're going to have to search for like they did with TNG,) they won't really know how extensive the restorations will have to be, which means they really don't know how much it will cost. It's one thing to base an estimate on past restorations and quite another to base it on the actual condition of the materials being used. I think that was his point.

Exactly. Thank you for wording it better than I did.

[dcowboy7]

If the same day they put season 1 out they wouldve put the complete series out too for $100 like they did in june then i wouldve bought the complete series day 1 then too.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Lava_Lander

(Also: If you can find any reference to someone connected with the project saying that "it was already paid for in full by streaming and syndication rights", that would be of great interest to read.)

I fully believe that to be the case, but the point that people (don't mean you, but the other guy) never grasp is that CBS wanted to see a RETURN on that reported $9M investment. Streaming is neither here nor there, as Netflix or Hulu or Amazon or whoever already paid to disseminate the Trek stable of shows on their services inclusive of TNG in SD, so them changing those up to HD later on made little difference to their bottom line. No, what CBS were looking for to justify the remastering was sales of physical media, and unfortunately TNG pretty much tanked on Blu for a variety of reasons which don't need going over again.

[edit] Factor in the greatly reduced popularity of DS9 and VOY and it means their respective HD remasters are further away than they've ever been; CBS figure that if they can't sell what is arguably Trek's crown jewel on Blu-ray then why bother with the red-headed stepchildren? (Yes, ENT was released on Blu but that's because it had HD masters ready to go, albeit of less than stellar quality, but they're HD nonetheless. CBS actually pulled the plug on the ENT Blu's in some countries after S2 though, which highlights how poor sales of that were.)

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by WhySoBlu?

Sorry gents, but this is a hobby. I'm not buying movies and TV shows in HD to prop up the industry, I'm buying them to enjoy them in HD.

The thing you and many others miss though is that these two things are irrecoverably linked. To care about one is to care about the other. If you want TV shows in HD then you need to "prop up the industry" and support them, because otherwise they will cease to exist. Obviously you can't buy everything day one, no one is asking that, but this was a special release that needed the support from fans. It is a real shame it did not get that support, and that has real repercussions.

[WhySoBlu?]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

The thing you and many others miss though is that these two things are irrecoverably linked. To care about one is to care about the other. If you want TV shows in HD then you need to "prop up the industry" and support them, because otherwise they will cease to exist. Obviously you can't buy everything day one, no one is asking that, but this was a special release that needed the support from fans. It is a real shame it did not get that support, and that has real repercussions.

I bought the complete set. I supported the release. You can save your sanctimonious lectures (funny, I don't remember signing up for your class) for someone who legitimately deserves it (or at least has any interest in your opinion of how others should spend their money.)

[Mighty Max]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

The thing you and many others miss though is that these two things are irrecoverably linked. To care about one is to care about the other. If you want TV shows in HD then you need to "prop up the industry" and support them, because otherwise they will cease to exist. Obviously you can't buy everything day one, no one is asking that, but this was a special release that needed the support from fans. It is a real shame it did not get that support, and that has real repercussions.

Why do you care so much about how people spend their money?
Who cares what price someone got something for.
A sale was made the studios got their money.
If they didn't want people to buy something at a lower price, they wouldn't allow a sale to happen on their product.

Stop being an ass and harassing so many on this website for trying to get a decent price. It isn't just in this thread but a lot of them.

God forbid you ever wander into the deals section!

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by WhySoBlu?

I bought the complete set. I supported the release. You can save your sanctimonious lectures (funny, I don't remember signing up for your class) for someone who legitimately deserves it (or at least has any interest in your opinion of how others should spend their money.)

No, you supported a clearance release, getting rid of old stock. They aren't really making money on it. Don't forget the retailers get their cut too.

Originally Posted by Mighty Max

Why do you care so much about how people spend their money?
Who cares what price someone got something for.
A sale was made the studios got their money.
If they didn't want people to buy something at a lower price, they wouldn't allow a sale to happen on their product.

Stop being an ass and harassing so many on this website for trying to get a decent price. It isn't just in this thread but a lot of them.

God forbid you ever wander into the deals section!

You're being far nastier.


Fact is that you and people like you are the reason there will be no DS9 or VOY in HD, no more Looney Tunes in HD, etc. Your cheapness cost more in the long run: the death of physical media due to unreasonable pricing demands and an overall selfish view.

[Mighty Max]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

No, you supported a clearance release, getting rid of old stock. They aren't really making money on it. Don't forget the retailers get their cut too.




You're being far nastier.


Fact is that you and people like you are the reason there will be no DS9 or VOY in HD, no more Looney Tunes in HD, etc. Your cheapness cost more in the long run: the death of physical media due to unreasonable pricing demands and an overall selfish view.

I got all of mine, with the exception of season one ON RELEASE DAY!

[WhySoBlu?]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

No, you supported a clearance release, getting rid of old stock. They aren't really making money on it. Don't forget the retailers get their cut too.

I guess you should have let them know that it was a "clearance release," since they released the exact same thing here in America after I purchased my copy from Amazon.co.uk. I'm sure they'd be super-interested to know that "PeterTHX" considers the complete series set to be nothing more than old stock so they can recall the sets and pawn them off on Big Lots and the like. I mean they aren't really making money on them, right?

Here's the rub, Petey - I don't care what you or any of the other self-righteous posters here think about my purchase any more than you or any of them care what I think about your purchases. Rather than attacking fellow enthusiasts who are - regardless of your BS claims to the contrary - supporting the format by purchasing titles and amassing large collections, why not direct some of that misplaced, butt-hurt-fueled vitriol towards the people watching the show on Netflix or stealing the content via torrents? Why the need to lash out like a petulant little child?

Edited to add: Since these were ignored before, maybe you can provide some answers to the following:
How many sets needed to be sold for the demand to be considered large enough to greenlight the other shows? How many units did we come up short by? At what price point do the sets stop being considered a sale that counts versus one that's causing DS9 to not be released?

And if you're unable to answer those questions, who are you to point the finger at those of us who still bought the release, just not at the time or price you wanted us to? Why was it okay for you to buy the seasons at a discounted price (presumably you didn't pay MSRP on release day) but it's not okay for others to buy the complete series at a discounted rate?