Star Trek: The Next Generation - Season 7 (1993-1994) / All Good Things (1994)

[Jlouisbarrett]

I'm not sure that anyone here is "attacking" anyone else, really, just stating that the people who passed on purchasing TNG on Blu-Ray/waited a year or more after the initial release contributed to the decision not to move forward with DS9 or VOY. It's really pretty simple: Consumers purchase an item, thus creating a sale. Not enough consumers made the purchase mainly due to the previously stated reasons. Therefore, sales were low and further releases were abandoned. Therefore, the consumers the TNG releases were created for contributed to this abandonment. I'm not sure why there's a debate over this as it's just plain fact.

[Petey Parker]

Originally Posted by Jlouisbarrett

I'm not sure that anyone here is "attacking" anyone else, really, just stating that the people who passed on purchasing TNG on Blu-Ray/waited a year or more after the initial release contributed to the decision not to move forward with DS9 or VOY.

If not "attacking", what would you call it when someone here calls other posters cheap and selfish and says it's their fault that DS9 and Voyager aren't coming out then?

[WhySoBlu?]

Originally Posted by Petey Parker

If not "attacking", what would you call it when someone here calls other posters cheap and selfish and says it's their fault that DS9 and Voyager aren't coming out then?

Posters who actually own the series on BD, no less...

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by WhySoBlu?

I bought the complete set. I supported the release. You can save your sanctimonious lectures (funny, I don't remember signing up for your class) for someone who legitimately deserves it (or at least has any interest in your opinion of how others should spend their money.)

Originally Posted by Mighty Max

Why do you care so much about how people spend their money?
Who cares what price someone got something for.
A sale was made the studios got their money.
If they didn't want people to buy something at a lower price, they wouldn't allow a sale to happen on their product.

Stop being an ass and harassing so many on this website for trying to get a decent price. It isn't just in this thread but a lot of them.

God forbid you ever wander into the deals section!

Originally Posted by Petey Parker

If not "attacking", what would you call it when someone here calls other posters cheap and selfish and says it's their fault that DS9 and Voyager aren't coming out then?

I didn't attack you guys or say anything mean like this. I am arguing my position with strong conviction and trying to explain how every purchase or not-purchase is a vote that matters, but I am not insulting any of you or being mean/petty. You all need to chillax a bit and not take every strong debate post as calling you stupid. They are not intended that way.

If you guys want to continue to deny that purchases are votes and supporting releases is inherent to seeing more like them then okay. I passionately disagree with you, but what can I do?

[kidglov3s]

The problem is this self righteous holy crusade's choice of target.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by kidglov3s

The problem is this self righteous holy crusade's choice of target.

Your comic is funny and not really wrong. However people who think the DVDs look fine or don't buy discs at all are lost causes, there is no point telling them anything. I deal with people all the time on my Star Trek forum who think the DVDs are good enough and there's nothing you can say to change their minds. Many of them even argue blu-ray itself is a "scam" because it looks the same as DVD. So yeah.

It's a debate more with enthusiasts, people in the market who enjoy getting the product but don't understand or care that early day one sales are necessary to get said product released.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Petey Parker

If not "attacking", what would you call it when someone here calls other posters cheap and selfish and says it's their fault that DS9 and Voyager aren't coming out then?

Originally Posted by WhySoBlu?

Posters who actually own the series on BD, no less...

The people who thought it was "outrageous" that it cost $50-$60 dollars on release day. I'm not going to mince words. It's cheap. And the lack of sales did cost us DS9 & VOYAGER on Blu-ray.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by WhySoBlu?

I guess you should have let them know that it was a "clearance release," since they released the exact same thing here in America after I purchased my copy from Amazon.co.uk. I'm sure they'd be super-interested to know that "PeterTHX" considers the complete series set to be nothing more than old stock so they can recall the sets and pawn them off on Big Lots and the like. I mean they aren't really making money on them, right?

Whatever. Whatever you want to believe.

Why the need to lash out like a petulant little child?

Pot, meet kettle. Kettle meet pot.

Edited to add: Since these were ignored before, maybe you can provide some answers to the following:
How many sets needed to be sold for the demand to be considered large enough to greenlight the other shows? How many units did we come up short by? At what price point do the sets stop being considered a sale that counts versus one that's causing DS9 to not be released?

I did my homework, and like I tell the kids: I'm not doing yours. Give you a hint: seek out Robert Meyer Burnett.

[WhySoBlu?]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

The people who thought it was "outrageous" that it cost $50-$60 dollars on release day. I'm not going to mince words. It's cheap. And the lack of sales did cost us DS9 & VOYAGER on Blu-ray.

I never said I thought it was outrageous. I just didn't purchase them at that price.

The fact remains that even if I'd paid MSRP for each and every season on their release dates, you still wouldn't be getting DS9 and Voyager on BD. You can stomp your feet and call us cheap all you want, but the reality is that there just isn't enough demand - and there still wouldn't be even if everyone here even vaguely interested in TNG bought the season sets.

I have a feeling that the sales were far weaker than you guys think they were for this show. I doubt the numbers were anywhere close to where they needed to be to greenlight the more obscure DS9 and Voyager. Which, of course, would make all of your blathering and attacks as pointless and misguided as we've been saying they were.

Of course, I have no data to support my "feeling," but given your response below, that appears to be something we have in common.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Pot, meet kettle. Kettle meet pot.

The difference is, I'm not going around telling other people how to spend their money. I'm not treating a fellow enthusiast - who purchased a brand new, officially released set of the series - like one of the thieves who goes around bragging about torrenting movies. And the thing is, this is the norm for you. You're always like this. If this was simply a case of an over-enthusiastic fan, I might be able to sympathize and brush it off as a bad case of fanboyitis. But this is something different, and far worse.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I did my homework, and like I tell the kids: I'm not doing yours. Give you a hint: seek out Robert Meyer Burnett.

Translation: I have no figures whatsoever, but since I'm incapable of ever ceding a point, I'll try to posture and bluff my way out of having to provide any sort of hard data to back up my assertion.

So... yeah. I'm done. Couldn't care less what you think. If you want to blame me for something that has nothing to do with me, so be it. Feel free to have the last word.

[Takeshi666]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Many of them even argue blu-ray itself is a "scam" because it looks the same as DVD. So yeah.

You'd have to be a blind idiot to believe that.

I mean if you're gonna complain about blu-ray, at least make valid complaints like "you can't region hack the players" or "they didn't port over all the bonus features from the DVD release" or "they didn't include the original unaltered audio", etc.

[Mighty Max]

Seriously, WHY are WE being b****ed at?
We bought the sets!
We aren't torrenting them.
We aren't streaming them.
Most seasons, at least in my case, were bought on release day! I'm not too sure, nor do I care when other that did buy them, bought them.

Go and find people online somewhere else or in real life and b**** at them for not buying the sets at all!

Go yell at the people on this site that support streaming!

[Petey Parker]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I didn't attack you guys or say anything mean like this. I am arguing my position with strong conviction and trying to explain how every purchase or not-purchase is a vote that matters, but I am not insulting any of you or being mean/petty. You all need to chillax a bit and not take every strong debate post as calling you stupid. They are not intended that way.

If you guys want to continue to deny that purchases are votes and supporting releases is inherent to seeing more like them then okay. I passionately disagree with you, but what can I do?

I don't disagree with you that purchases are votes and I don't think anyone did really, the problem was another poster who was placing blame on people who post here who actually do own the releases. You've always been civil in your discussions from my experience with you.

Truth be told is that I actually agree with that poster when he says that $50-$60 at release was a perfectly reasonable price for the seasons given the work that was done and it's why I picked them up at launch. The problem is that $50-$60 only lasted a few days and after that it was up to $80-$90 or even more depending on the store. You can't really fault people for deciding to wait for another sale price and at least they picked it up eventually.

As so eloquently shown in the pictures above, the reason there is no Voyager or DS9 is because of the people who didn't buy the show and price wasn't the only issue.

You already listed one of the reasons people didn't buy, the dreaded "DVD's look fine" which is an industry in general problem (of course if I had paid $120 per season on DVD I'd have probably convinced myself they looked great as well) Couple that with all the seasons being available on streaming sites like Netflix in HD plus at least three or four channels still showing episodes of TNG in HD and it's not really hard to see why sales weren't that great.

I completely agree that someone has little right to complain that DS9 or Voyager aren't coming to Blu-ray if they never bothered to pick up the earlier Trek releases but insulting people who actually did buy the shows because they "didn't pay enough" is not the right thing to do (which to be clear again, I wasn't accusing you of)

[DasRetroKid]

I just read through the last few pages and wow, some people are really sensitive.

Regardless of how you came about purchasing the TNG Blu Rays, you can't change the fact that demand drives business. The time for consumers to vote with their wallets had long passed when those cheap box sets were released.

This is simple economics. Nothing more.

[oildude]

Discuss and debate respectfully, folks. If you cannot post and express your viewpoint without calling other members an idiot or an ass then do not post at all. Any name calling from this point forward will result in deleted posts and immediate suspensions.

That is all. Carry on with you discussions but do so in a friendly manner.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Petey Parker

I don't disagree with you that purchases are votes and I don't think anyone did really, the problem was another poster who was placing blame on people who post here who actually do own the releases. You've always been civil in your discussions from my experience with you.

Truth be told is that I actually agree with that poster when he says that $50-$60 at release was a perfectly reasonable price for the seasons given the work that was done and it's why I picked them up at launch. The problem is that $50-$60 only lasted a few days and after that it was up to $80-$90 or even more depending on the store. You can't really fault people for deciding to wait for another sale price and at least they picked it up eventually.

As so eloquently shown in the pictures above, the reason there is no Voyager or DS9 is because of the people who didn't buy the show and price wasn't the only issue.

You already listed one of the reasons people didn't buy, the dreaded "DVD's look fine" which is an industry in general problem (of course if I had paid $120 per season on DVD I'd have probably convinced myself they looked great as well) Couple that with all the seasons being available on streaming sites like Netflix in HD plus at least three or four channels still showing episodes of TNG in HD and it's not really hard to see why sales weren't that great.

I completely agree that someone has little right to complain that DS9 or Voyager aren't coming to Blu-ray if they never bothered to pick up the earlier Trek releases but insulting people who actually did buy the shows because they "didn't pay enough" is not the right thing to do (which to be clear again, I wasn't accusing you of)

Very good post and thanks for the compliments. I think we can all agree that the massive ambivalence shown by most of the market is the real issue, no matter how that exerts itself. It's a real shame considering I would call this project perhaps the best thing to hit blu-ray in my collection.

[BerryTheMusicMan]

Do you *****es need to hug it out or what ...

[benji888578]

Hopefully pay the price people have moved on...

For those of you that have some seasons but not all yet, I ended up getting the Nordic versions of seasons 6 & 7 for about $32 (each) some months ago, they are region free, the discs themselves are exactly the same in all markets, they just print different labels on them and put them in different packaging, ...they are just a bit less now, here: http://stores.ebay.com/futuremoviesh..._nkw=star+trek

[Frank169]

Originally Posted by Petey Parker

You already listed one of the reasons people didn't buy, the dreaded "DVD's look fine" which is an industry in general problem (of course if I had paid $120 per season on DVD I'd have probably convinced myself they looked great as well) Couple that with all the seasons being available on streaming sites like Netflix in HD plus at least three or four channels still showing episodes of TNG in HD and it's not really hard to see why sales weren't that great.

Is there possibly another (and IMHO) important reason that I find that's hardly if ever talked about because it apparently constitutes some kind of taboo?

I don't have all the sales figures but according to Maxwell Everett and his sources sales of Season One amounted to 5,730,000 $ while Season Five in contrast only yielded 430,000 $.

I read many attempts to explain this difference, including streaming cannibalization, disappointment with Season Two mastering and - seriously - fans getting broke and becoming unable to purchase the last seasons.

On the other hand, CBS wasn't exactly forthcoming with its "Full Frame 1080p" aspect ratio information (at a time were 4:3 TVs had become a minority), so I could never shake the suspicion that general audiences had expected a reformatted 16:9 version, too - but ultimately lost interest after their Season One purchase.

I never believed that the sucess of the project depended entirely on fans buying the Blu-ray season sets, but to a large part on general audiences as well. Ultimately, the blame might stay with CBS - for making the decision to release the series exclusively in 4:3 instead of the 16:9 reformat that was the other option the CBS execs discussed in 2011.

[DasRetroKid]

Perhaps having offered both versions of each episode (OAR and reformatted 16:9 version) would have merited better sales (despite a larger up front cost by CBS). Kind of like how on TOS Blu Ray release you can watch either the updated with new effects version of each episode, or the original version.

Sadly we'll never know, though I'd hate to think this project "failed" due to two black bars. I think the cost of the sets may have had more to do with it.

Having now finished DS9, I'm quite sad TNG on Blu didn't prove worth investing in bringing DS9 to HD. A show I started off hating I ended up really loving, and felt sad when I hit the last episode.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Frank169

On the other hand, CBS wasn't exactly forthcoming with its "Full Frame 1080p" aspect ratio information (at a time were 4:3 TVs had become a minority), so I could never shake the suspicion that general audiences had expected a reformatted 16:9 version, too - but ultimately lost interest after their Season One purchase.

I never believed that the sucess of the project depended entirely on fans buying the Blu-ray season sets, but to a large part on general audiences as well. Ultimately, the blame might stay with CBS - for making the decision to release the series exclusively in 4:3 instead of the 16:9 reformat that was the other option the CBS execs discussed in 2011.

I would not be surprised one bit if a ton of people stopped buying them or never bought them because they are 4:3. However what does that really mean at the end of the day? I'd rather watch the DVDs of DS9 and Voyager if the BDs were cropped, which would be the only way to make them 16:9. Now, if you want to go back to the DVD days and have "full screen" and OAR versions sold separately then okay I guess, but man I bristle at the idea of making that shit a thing again.

Idiots who want to crop things to fill their screens should use the zoom and crop functions on their remotes and stop spreading ignorance.