The Sinbad Trilogy (1958 - 1977) - Indicator / Powerhouse

[Aclea]

Originally Posted by javi92

The obfuscation and refusal to directly answer the question posed is very off-putting.

Otherwise known as accentuating the positive, eliminating the negative, latching on to the affirmative and not messing with Mister Direct Answer to a Direct Question.

[Shingster]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

My point is, if it was a blanket sharpening then it would look just as bad in every cap as it does in those few. Doesn't seem to be. A few of them look identical to the TT, only brighter with no edge manipulation at all.

Maybe I'm more sensitive to this than you, but I can clearly see edge manipulation in all but the first (it's there, but only fractionally) and the third grab. The amount definitely varies wildly so it's obviously not some blanket amount but maybe a blanket setting that only activates once a certain threshold is met? It's very weird. I'm sure grabs 4&5 are worst case scenarios though, but as for screenshot 2, this is where I'm seeing the most obvious sharpening:



The candles and edges of the minotaur looking unnaturaly "harsh" to me.

[StingingVelvet]

Yeah the sharpening is obvious, as are the color differences (which are surely boosted compared to the new master). I guess they got the wrong master delivered. The vast, vast majority of consumers won't care, so I wonder if they'll do replacements. Hard to guess.

Lucky for me I have the Aussie discs, so no harm no foul for me personally. Buying this either way for the new 7th Voyage, extras and book.

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by Shingster

Maybe I'm more sensitive to this than you, but I can clearly see edge manipulation in all but the first (it's there, but only fractionally) and the third grab. The amount definitely varies wildly so it's obviously not some blanket amount but maybe a blanket setting that only activates once a certain threshold is met? It's very weird. I'm sure grabs 4&5 are worst case scenarios though, but as for screenshot 2, this is where I'm seeing the most obvious sharpening:



The candles and edges of the minotaur looking unnaturaly "harsh" to me.

Sure, it's there to a degree but I stand my my assessment. If it were a blanket sharpening, it would just as noticeable in every cap as it is in a few. I've done enough sharpening of photos and videos for clients to know what it looks like, and how it looks not just in a few frames but in all of them.

[Shingster]

I've never argued that it's a blanket sharpening, just that we don't know what algorithms they're using so it's difficult to say exactly what is going on and why some grabs look caked in it and most don't. I know what sharpening looks like in something like Photoshop because I'm familiar with that editor, and you know what sharpening looks like in whatever video editor(s) you're using, but that's not to say there's any relation to what editing tools they're using. They're obviously doing something to the image that's making it look less filmlike in almost every single screenshot in that caps-a-holic comparison - regardless to what extent - and now Indicator's got a slightly less-than-stellar release on their hands because they were handed a presumably older master for this film.

[tenia]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

It's kind of funny how everybody's favorite new "savior" label is just as shady and obtuse as the rest of them. They all make mistakes, they don't want to address/own up to it, it's nothing new.

Wait what, another label which isn't the Salvation Army ?
What a shock.

Any sarcasm hyperbole "all shite" aside, they can quickly respond and address problems which can... quickly be fixed.

What do people think ? That they're going to go out publicly to recognize that their very first set, which they have heavily advertised, potentially contains an older master while stated otherwise everywhere, that this master seems to have incorrectly handed over by Sony, and that there probably isn't a lot they can do right now about it ?

Oh yeah, sure, what a tremendous idea.
If you like shooting yourself in the foot with a bazooka, that is.

[Si Parallel Universe]

Mines on its way I will report on it on Monday

[javi92]

Originally Posted by tenia

What do people think ? That they're going to go out publicly to recognize that their very first set, which they have heavily advertised, potentially contains an older master while stated otherwise everywhere

Yes. At least some explanation that addresses the question. Honesty goes a long way.

that this master seems to have incorrectly handed over by Sony

This is conjecture. They may have been contractually prevented from accessing the newer master, despite what they obviously thought earlier when the initial description of the transfer was written. We don't know for sure.

[RossyG]

My set arrived this morning. I'm not well-versed in what to look for regarding sharpening, digital noise and the like, but I've had a peek at all three discs and my thought on the discs are...

Seventh Voyage: There's a very fine mosquito effect to the picture, especially noticeable against shots of the blue sky. It may be film grain, but I've a suspicion that it's digital in origin. I couldn't say for sure, though. Otherwise, the film looks surprisingly modern; not like a Fifties film in terms of colour.

Golden Voyage: Looks pretty good. Not sure the 1.66:1 ratio is correct, though. It certainly wouldn't have been shown in cinemas like that.

Eye of the Tiger: That grain has returned a little, but I had to search for it in most shots. More concerning to me was the way the film twitched. This effect was common in cinemas and on TV in the days of 35mm film (caused, I think, by the sprocket holes in the celluloid) but these days there are ways to stabilise a picture so it's odd to see a modern Blu-Ray with old-school film twitch. I suspect I'll be able to ignore this when watching the film, but it shouldn't really be there. Otherwise, the picture seems bright and sharp.

[Ste7en]

Golden Voyage was shot 1.66: but presented in cinemas 1.85:1.

Personally, I'd rather have had a theatrical presentation.

[stratford]

would any one have time to post a review please?

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by RossyG

Seventh Voyage: There's a very fine mosquito effect to the picture, especially noticeable against shots of the blue sky. It may be film grain, but I've a suspicion that it's digital in origin. I couldn't say for sure, though. Otherwise, the film looks surprisingly modern; not like a Fifties film in terms of colour.

Hmm, well now you have me a little worried...

[tenia]

Originally Posted by javi92

Honesty goes a long way.

You'd make a poor seller.
Honesty only is useful when used properly. Here, it would just be admitting a possible screw up way too early, possibly even before all possible fixes have been evaluated.
People would cancel their pre orders, others would lose faith anyway because what good is it if theh can't fix it anyway...

Originally Posted by javi92

This is conjecture. They may have been contractually prevented from accessing the newer master, despite what they obviously thought earlier when the initial description of the transfer was written. We don't know for sure.

We know for sure Indicator repeatedly stated they were give by Sony the most recent master, except that it doesnt since TT uses a better one. It could be TT has an older but better master but that's extremely far fetched.

So of course, that's just me doing 1+1, not an official word, but in any case, all elements so far point towards the culprit being somewhere at Sony.

[Blu_Beard]

I just picked up on the Eye of the Tiger issues this morning from the US forum and just read the last several pages. Using an old DVD master is a major bummer, but I'm honestly more disappointed in these canned responses from Indicator and their transparent avoidance to publically own up to what is clearly a problematic release.

Regardless of how or why Sony supplied PH with an outdated master and regardless of fault, John M's statements communicate to me that they are either deliberately withholding details or that they simply aren't the super-capable label that I have been attributing to them since they began.

Either way, their attitude about this box set no longer encourages the kind of support I've been lending them, which has been to pre-order as soon as humanly possible. Don't get me wrong, I'll still likely buy a lot of their products but now with much more scrutiny and slightly less gusto. I did cancel my pre-order, however.

[reason108]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

It's kind of funny how everybody's favorite new "savior" label is just as shady and obtuse as the rest of them. They all make mistakes, they don't want to address/own up to it, it's nothing new.

"He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy."









Well, it seems these days that almost every movie I buy has some kind of flaw, or, perhaps, I am just becoming more sensitive regarding these kinds of issues. Life is not perfect and no perfect company but money is money and it seems that I end up paying for inferior product a lot more than I use to. Think that I am going to have to stop pre-ordering on a lot of stuff and just wait for the reviews. But, it is hard to do that with these limited sets like this cause then one runs the risk of missing out.

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by reason108

Well, it seems these days that almost every movie I buy has some kind of flaw, or, perhaps, I am just becoming more sensitive regarding these kinds of issues. Life is not perfect and no perfect company but money is money and it seems that I end up paying for inferior product a lot more than I use to. Think that I am going to have to stop pre-ordering on a lot of stuff and just wait for the reviews. But, it is hard to do that with these limited sets like this cause then one runs the risk of missing out.

The problem isn't the growing number of PQ/AQ issues from every company (well, it is a problem, the quality control departments are non-existent), but when the studios ignore the issues when they 100% are aware of them. Some companies are good about fixing issues — which costs more than simple QC in the first place*— but Indicator is still ignoring anyone who asks the question. Even a guy on their Facebook said flat out "it's obviously an older master and not the new one, but it still looks good" and TT responded to the effect of "thanks for the kind words!" They didn't dis-acknowledge it was an old master or try to correct him, so they know for sure.

But treating people with silence when 1) they advertised it as a new master, and 2) some people sold their OOP Twilight Time discs because it should've been the same master when it clearly is not is bad customer service and misleading business all around.

[sjt]

Originally Posted by javi92

"Honesty goes a long way."

Originally posted by tenia

"You'd make a poor seller.
Honesty only is useful when used properly"

You'd make a poor human being

[Shillingbury Tales]

Honesty should be used on a case by case basis.
It's definitely not always the best policy

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

But treating people with silence when 1) they advertised it as a new master, and 2) some people sold their OOP Twilight Time discs because it should've been the same master when it clearly is not is bad customer service and misleading business all around.

That's a good example of how people might have been screwed. The TT release probably made them enough to get the Aussie disc and still be in profit, but still... not cool. I do wonder what they will do, since they advertised the remaster. They might not even be able to get it from Sony for free to issue replacements, and their third or fourth replacement already has to be killing their bottom line.

I know in these niche market times they don't want to pay for QA, but dang...

[Shillingbury Tales]

I sold both of my TT Sinbad discs. One on its own covered the cost of the Australian set so the other was a bonus.