The Shining (1980)

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Cherokee Jack

Kubrick has actually commented on how he changed Wendy's character into a rather dim doormat so it would be more realistic that she'd end up and stay with an a**hole like Jack. I buy the relationship in the movie more than I buy Jack being some kind of intellectual personally.

With regards to the changes for Wendy from book to screen, Kubrick sought someone who was not the most attractive, because he didn't think someone super hot would stick around. I don't know if he also talked about her being less intelligent too, I've only read about her outward appearance.

[Cherokee Jack]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

With regards to the changes for Wendy from book to screen, Kubrick sought someone who was not the most attractive, because he didn't think someone super hot would stick around. I don't know if he also talked about her being less intelligent too, I've only read about her outward appearance.

This is a Kubrick quote from an interview in the Ciment book:

'The novel pictures her as a much more self-reliant and attractive woman, but these qualities make you wonder why she has put up with Jack for so long. Shelley seemed to be exactly the kind of woman that would marry Jack and be stuck with him.'

I find the shift away from a 'self-reliant' character more effective myself as I know many women who are no more attractive than Duvall (who I personally find rather cute in an unconventional way) but would still never put up with a man like Jack because they're smart and assertive. Kubrick goes out of his way to portray Wendy as rather mindless and completely lacking in self-confidence and it's someone like that who would stay in a relationship no matter how toxic it had become.

[English Patient]

Originally Posted by thatguamguy

I was thinking, in response to your points about the novel, that one thing which the movie doesn't really have that I do miss, I never get a sense of why Jack and Wendy got together and fell in love. They don't seem to like each other, they don't seem to have much in common, and I think seeing something of them early on might've made their performances feel more rounded.

The novel has some of that material (when both Wendy and Jack reflect on their marriage), but I'm sure Kubrick lumped all that stuff in with other things he felt weren't relevant. After reading some of the interviews with Kubrick about The Shining and Barry Lyndon, I get the sense he simply didn't like conventional melodrama, and any scenes of a couple in love or falling in love or anything like that would have made him roll his eyes. In the novel of The Shining, there were lots of scenes and moments that showed the family when they truly loved each other - I bet Kubrick felt stuff like that was too corny or melodramatic.

[bobbyh64]

I’ve noticed the editing in some of Kubrick’s movies is a bit unconventional in dialogue scenes. He’ll have a character say their line and then it cuts to the other character and it goes back and forth without showing a character’s reaction and without using “split edits,” where there’s a cut while a character is talking. It can seem amateurish but for some reason I like it in Kubrick movies. His movies are already strange and I think that type of editing adds to them. I also find his movies to have lots of comedic moments because some of the characters are so over-the-top and ridiculous that I can’t help but just laugh, and sometimes there are really subtle moments that seem funny to me. Like in The Shining when Grady tells Jack, “Did you know, Mr. Torrance, that your son is attempting to bring an outside party into this situation? ... Did you know that?” I like that last part where he repeats himself. I found it funny in an odd way. Other examples are the deadpan reaction of the doctor when Wendy tells her about Jack breaking Danny’s arm, or at the beginning of the movie when Jack is talking to Ullman and it cuts to a shot of the other employee stiff as a board and with no reaction whatsoever. I wonder if Kubrick intended for his movies to be as funny as they seem to me.

[StingingVelvet]

It's a shame he looked on her attractiveness like that because any study will tell you life doesn't work that way. Abusers or disabled people don't just marry less attractive people, it's all about emotional attachments and an inability to break free, i.e. codependency.

[English Patient]

Originally Posted by Rzzzz

I can't believe this movie is still being talked about after all these years. I will never forget when I saw this with my sister and 2 cousins at the movie theater the Friday or Saturday it came out. All we knew about it is that it was a scary movie with Jack Nicholson in it. We all left the theater blown away and knew we just watched something very unique. This is one of those movies I have seen so many times I have lost count. I know a lot of the theories are far fetched (but still fun) but the one I have always wondered about is the missing chairs in the middle of scenes and things like that. If I recall correctly, Kubrick's assistant says they were honest mistakes where others claim it was to cause the viewer to be disoriented. With all the takes Kubrick did, I find it hard to believe he wouldn't notice a missing chair behind Jack Nicholson in a scene. What do you guys think?

I think they were just mistakes. I know Kubrick has a reputation for being a genius, a control freak and a perfectionist, but if you watch the behind-the-scenes documentary on the making of The Shining on the blu-ray, you get the sense that lots of things were being thrown together at the last minute. Scenes were being rewritten on the set constantly - Nicholson even joked that he didn't bother memorizing his lines anymore because they'd change. The set seemed just a bit chaotic, with plenty of room for continuity sloppiness. So it seems reasonable to think that things just got moved (by a crew member) and Kubrick either didn't notice or didn't care all that much. In 2001, there was a glaring shot of Bowman, when he's about to dismantle HAL and there's supposedly no air in the ship anymore, with his glove disconnected from the arm of his suit so the viewer can see his bare wrist. Kubrick never bothered to correct that.

[Geoff D]

I can only reiterate that although Kubrick has this rep as this eccentric perfectionist he also didn't mind rather obvious goofs and continuity slip-ups just as long as he got the performance that he wanted. This may be apocryphal but I remember a line from him when someone asked him about his penchant for multiple takes, he said something like "I don't always know what I do want, but I do always know what I don't want".

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I can only reiterate that although Kubrick has this rep as this eccentric perfectionist he also didn't mind rather obvious goofs and continuity slip-ups just as long as he got the performance that he wanted. This may be apocryphal but I remember a line from him when someone asked him about his penchant for multiple takes, he said something like "I don't always know what I like, but I do always know what I don't like".

Yeah. The penchant for making actors do their lines over and over, dozens of times, was to bring them to a breaking point, where Kubrick would get something different from em.

[MifuneFan]

I feel bad for Scatman Crothers (Hallorann). Dude had to do 148 retakes for one scene, which was the Guiness world record at that time.

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

I feel bad for Scatman Crothers (Hallorann). Dude had to do 148 retakes for one scene, which was the Guiness world record at that time.

I was just about to post that.

I thought I heard that Shelley cried daily... and perhaps Danny never acted again because of his experience? I have to look it up (don't want to spread misinformation)

[bobbyh64]

Which scene did Scatman have to do 148 takes?

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Which scene did Scatman have to do 148 takes?

The one with Danny at the table, talking about the shining.

The Shining - 148 takes. - YouTube

[English Patient]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Which scene did Scatman have to do 148 takes?

The scene in the kitchen of the hotel near the beginning when Halloran explains the concept of "the shining" to Danny.

[KID_Q]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Which scene did Scatman have to do 148 takes?

I believe it was the scene where he talks to Danny as he eats his ice cream and tells him he has the shine.

[dallywhitty]

For realsies? I always thought it was Duvall who got subjected to 140+ takes (presumably the scene on the stairs).

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

For realsies? I always thought it was Duvall who got subjected to 140+ takes (presumably the scene on the stairs).

That one is said to be 127 takes. There's probably a bunch in the 100+ range to be honest. It was no fun time on that set.

[bobbyh64]

I wonder if Danny had to sit there for all 148 takes.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

I wonder if Danny had to sit there for all 148 takes.

On the bright side, maybe he got plenty of refills of ice cream because of it

[eiknarf]

Made Nicholson bust maaaaany doors, too

[dallywhitty]

I don't know if you guys have ever seen this making-of parody, but it never fails to make me laugh.

The Making of The Shining - Part 1 - YouTube