The Shining (1980)

[Cherokee Jack]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

I also find his movies to have lots of comedic moments because some of the characters are so over-the-top and ridiculous that I can’t help but just laugh, and sometimes there are really subtle moments that seem funny to me. Like in The Shining when Grady tells Jack, “Did you know, Mr. Torrance, that your son is attempting to bring an outside party into this situation? ... Did you know that?” I like that last part where he repeats himself. I found it funny in an odd way. Other examples are the deadpan reaction of the doctor when Wendy tells her about Jack breaking Danny’s arm, or at the beginning of the movie when Jack is talking to Ullman and it cuts to a shot of the other employee stiff as a board and with no reaction whatsoever. I wonder if Kubrick intended for his movies to be as funny as they seem to me.

Trust me, you're not the only one to find humor throughout Kubrick's films. I find pretty much all of his mature works besides Paths of Glory, 2001 and EWS consistently amusing. David Mirkin himself, arguably the greatest single Simpsons show runner, talks about how hysterical he finds The Shining on the commentary to their 'Shinning' parody.

In case you've never seen it (other parts available on YT):

Treehouse of Horror V: The Shinning part 1/4 - YouTube

[TylerDurden389]

I mentioned once before that I always laugh at the end as we see and hear the truck driving away, coupled with Jack's screaming and babbling. The lack of humanity and call-and-response is what does it. Any other director would show Wendy panicking just from trying to get the machine to work, while also trying to hide the real fear that they may never even make it back to civilization. Showing the back and forth of that from Wendy, while showing Jack screaming would've made more sense. But not Kubrick. He felt showing/hearing a 'divide' between Jack and his family from a machine that was permanently separating them (as well as separating Jack from life to death*) was the better choice.

Again, just my interpretation. I always find it funny when someone's screams are interrupted by something even louder. Case in point:

[Mr. Thomsen]

Originally Posted by Cherokee Jack

This is a Kubrick quote from an interview in the Ciment book:

'The novel pictures her as a much more self-reliant and attractive woman, but these qualities make you wonder why she has put up with Jack for so long. Shelley seemed to be exactly the kind of woman that would marry Jack and be stuck with him.'

I find the shift away from a 'self-reliant' character more effective myself as I know many women who are no more attractive than Duvall (who I personally find rather cute in an unconventional way) but would still never put up with a man like Jack because they're smart and assertive. Kubrick goes out of his way to portray Wendy as rather mindless and completely lacking in self-confidence and it's someone like that who would stay in a relationship no matter how toxic it had become.

I watched it again on the big screen Wednesday, and I have to say I love that scene where Wendy disturbs Jack while he is writing. That look of hurt and defeat in her eyes as Jack gets mad at her just says so much about the dynamic of their relationship. You know that she's never going to leave him as long as it is just her he treats badly.

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

It's a shame he looked on her attractiveness like that because any study will tell you life doesn't work that way. Abusers or disabled people don't just marry less attractive people, it's all about emotional attachments and an inability to break free, i.e. codependency.

The only question that matters is if Wendy and Jack made love even once while at the Overlook Hotel??!!

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

The only question that matters is if Wendy and Jack made love even once while at the Overlook Hotel??!!

Or will they be back next year?

[Filmmaker]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

The only question that matters is if Wendy and Jack made love even once while at the Overlook Hotel??!!

They definitely did in the book, for whatever that's worth.

[MifuneFan]

The book shows a lot more love and compassion between the two. They are very playful with it, and tease each other like two people completely in love. Quite different from the dynamic we see on screen. I think the film could have probably developed that a little more, it couldn't have been hard to do. It would have even made for a more impactful downfall.

[Cherokee Jack]

Originally Posted by Mr. Thomsen

I watched it again on the big screen Wednesday, and I have to say I love that scene where Wendy disturbs Jack while he is writing. That look of hurt and defeat in her eyes as Jack gets mad at her just says so much about the dynamic of their relationship. You know that she's never going to leave him as long as it is just her he treats badly.

Yeah, it's moments like that where I don't understand the hate Duvall gets from some for her performance. She absolutely nails this role especially in the American cut.

Originally Posted by eiknarf

The only question that matters is if Wendy and Jack made love even once while at the Overlook Hotel??!!

They still seemed pretty normal during the scene where Wendy brings him breakfast in bed and even talk about needing to start going to bed earlier. And sex is probably one of the only things Jack considers Wendy (aka 'Old Sp*rm Bank') useful for so I'll bet that what's they did together more than anything else.

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by Cherokee Jack

Yeah, it's moments like that where I don't understand the hate Duvall gets from some for her performance. She absolutely nails this role especially in the American cut.


They still seemed pretty normal during the scene where Wendy brings him breakfast in bed and even talk about needing to start going to be earlier. And sex is probably one of the only things Jack considers Wendy (aka 'Old Sp*rm Bank') useful for so I'll bet that what's they did together more than anything else.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa I FORGOT ABOUT THAT LINE!!!!!!
"Old Sp°rm Bank ~~•"
Haaaaaaaaa. Best answer yet!!!

[Eye Candy]

I very rarely ever read a novel. But, my love for the movie The Shining prompted me to buy and begin reading the Stephen King novel in the 1990's.

I thought I could get more details that would help me know the story better.

But it just didn't work for me. I got through a couple of chapters, but I didn't feel like I was getting what I wanted.

I did not realize then how much liberty Kubrick had taken with the King novel.

I guess what I needed to be reading instead was Kubrick's screenplay notes.

For me, Kubrick's Shining is a movie who's Main Character is the Haunted Overlook Hotel.

So, apparent or supposed deficiencies in Jack's supporting character development, are not that big a deal for me. The main character, The Overlook Hotel, is flushed out well enough.

I suppose King's novel's focus is Jack Torrance. But I actually prefer Kubrick making the Hotel the Main Character. Not the first time a successful Kubrick movie's main character has not been a human being...

[English Patient]

Originally Posted by Eye Candy

I very rarely ever read a novel. But, my love for the movie The Shining prompted me to buy and begin reading the Stephen King novel in the 1990's.

I thought I could get more details that would help me know the story better.

But it just didn't work for me. I got through a couple of chapters, but I didn't feel like I was getting what I wanted.

I did not realize then how much liberty Kubrick had taken with the King novel.

I guess what I needed to be reading instead was Kubrick's screenplay notes.

For me, Kubrick's Shining is a movie who's Main Character is the Haunted Overlook Hotel.

So, apparent or supposed deficiencies in Jack's supporting character development, are not that big a deal for me. The main character, The Overlook Hotel, is flushed out well enough.

I suppose King's novel's focus is Jack Torrance. But I actually prefer Kubrick making the Hotel the Main Character. Not the first time a successful Kubrick movie's main character has not been a human being...

If you want to know about the Overlook Hotel, then you have to read the whole book - the history of the Overlook is detailed in the middle of the novel, when Jack discovers the scrapbook and when he has interactions with the ghostly people in the hotel. Kubrick actually uses some visual moments from this history - like the guy in the bear suit - but doesn't bother to explain any of it. A few pages back I posted a link to the original treatment Kubrick wrote, which has more planned scenes that even include Jack finding the scrapbook.

[thatguamguy]

Yeah, I second that, the book has a lot of the Overlook stuff you want, and it's kind of grouped together (I think they intercut Jack reading stories about the Overlook with Danny riding around the hallways or something like that), so once you find it you can read through that stuff pretty easily.

[Marv Inc.]

Originally Posted by English Patient

If you want to know about the Overlook Hotel, then you have to read the whole book - the history of the Overlook is detailed in the middle of the novel, when Jack discovers the scrapbook and when he has interactions with the ghostly people in the hotel. Kubrick actually uses some visual moments from this history - like the guy in the bear suit - but doesn't bother to explain any of it. A few pages back I posted a link to the original treatment Kubrick wrote, which has more planned scenes that even include Jack finding the scrapbook.

I seem to recall the scrapbook prop being in the Kubrick archive so maybe they shot the scene with it and cut it.

[Eye Candy]

Originally Posted by English Patient

If you want to know about the Overlook Hotel, then you have to read the whole book - the history of the Overlook is detailed in the middle of the novel, when Jack discovers the scrapbook and when he has interactions with the ghostly people in the hotel. Kubrick actually uses some visual moments from this history - like the guy in the bear suit - but doesn't bother to explain any of it. A few pages back I posted a link to the original treatment Kubrick wrote, which has more planned scenes that even include Jack finding the scrapbook.

Originally Posted by thatguamguy

Yeah, I second that, the book has a lot of the Overlook stuff you want, and it's kind of grouped together (I think they intercut Jack reading stories about the Overlook with Danny riding around the hallways or something like that), so once you find it you can read through that stuff pretty easily.

Originally Posted by Marv Inc.

I seem to recall the scrapbook prop being in the Kubrick archive so maybe they shot the scene with it and cut it.

What I wanted to find more about was Jack, but the Jack in the movie, as Kubrick envisioned him, but not so much the Jack that King details. I find the focus on alcoholism tiring. I really disliked the TV version that more true to the novel.

[Cherokee Jack]

Originally Posted by Eye Candy

What I wanted to find more about was Jack, but the Jack in the movie, as Kubrick envisioned him, but not so much the Jack that King details. I find the focus on alcoholism tiring. I really disliked the TV version that more true to the novel.

English Patient shared a link a few pages ago that had a PDF of Kubrick's early treatment of The Shining. His initial conception of Jack was closer to how I hear the book portrayed him minus any attempt to present him as sympathetic. It includes flashbacks of the earlier violent incidents and Jack seems more like a bitter, angry and deeply unstable alcoholic rather than simply insane. You would never anticipate the stylized and almost cartoonish direction Kubrick went with by casting Nicholson while reading it. I wouldn't anyway. His early conception of Hallorann and the ending are also massively different from how they're handled in the film.

I'd recommend giving it a read as it's quite interesting and should only take about 10-20 minutes. Stick it out to the end if you can: you'll be rewarded by a Barry Lyndon-esque epilogue.

Direct link to the treatment (courtesy of English Patient): http://www.cinephiliabeyond.org/wp-c...treatment1.pdf

[Mr. Thomsen]

Originally Posted by Marv Inc.

I seem to recall the scrapbook prop being in the Kubrick archive so maybe they shot the scene with it and cut it.

The scrapbook is actually in the movie. There's a brief shot where you can see it lying among other things on that table he has his typewriter on.

I noticed it when I attended a screening of the US cut last week in the largest cinema here in Copenhagen.

[English Patient]

Originally Posted by Mr. Thomsen

The scrapbook is actually in the movie. There's a brief shot where you can see it lying among other things on that table he has his typewriter on.

I noticed it when I attended a screening of the US cut last week in the largest cinema here in Copenhagen.

Yeah, and I remember reading how Diane Johnson (co-screenwriter) was disappointed that the scrapbook scene got cut. I think it was actually filmed.
I really wish the scene had been included because there was always this contradiction/continuity problem: during the job interview, Jack didn't know about the Grady murders and is surprised by them, but when he encounters Grady in the bathroom later in the movie, he tells Grady, "I recognized you. I saw your picture in the newspaper." If the scrapbook scene had been in there (the scrapbook had clippings of the Grady murder), then there wouldn't be this continuity problem.

[Eye Candy]

Houston . . . We have a continuity problem.

[thatguamguy]

Originally Posted by Mr. Thomsen

The scrapbook is actually in the movie. There's a brief shot where you can see it lying among other things on that table he has his typewriter on.

[English Patient]

The fansite, theoverlookhotel.com, even has the original screenplay pages of the deleted scrapbook scene:


http://www.theoverlookhotel.com/post...enplay-for-the

I wonder why Kubrick ultimately cut it. Maybe he thought it over-emphasized the hotel's unsavory history, which was already clear from the mention of Grady's murder/suicide and the Indian burial ground at the beginning.

In the novel, the scrapbook and the hotel's history played a much larger role; we see newspaper articles about all the crime and horror that occurred there. In a way, it parallels the flashbacks King provides about Jack's own sad, sordid history - his father's abuse and Jack's drinking, etc.