Stranger Things: Season 1 4K UHD (2016) (Collector's Edition) (Target Exclusive)

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by willbfree

Maybe the audio will be lossy but will be at a very high bitrate.

It's not. Dolby Digital lossy (not Dolby Digital Plus) does not have a higher rate like say DTS-HD High Resolution that can be around 3 Mbps.

This has 640 kilobit, regular DD lossy as per the Oppo's data stream analysis.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by willbfree

...divided by six channels, yeah that is terrible.

That said, does that mean that each channel is around 100kbps, with a corresponding frequency cutoff around, oh, 16kHz is about where an old fashioned 128kbps audio file would end.

Or does Dolby Digital do something fancy to preserve more than that? Can Dolby Digital have up to 22kHz even so?

That's not how Dolby Digital works. You cannot compare it to a simplistic codec like MP3. There's full frequency response to 20kHz.
Channels are VBR within the 640kbps container, so each channel gets the bits it needs for activity. Sound mixers rarely max out every channel at the same time. That is also why 384 & 448kbps DD performs well.
Now DTS is CBR - so silence gets the same bitrate as, say, an exploding aircraft carrier. That's why it cannot have lower bitrates. Even the 768kbps rate starts filtering high frequency content starting at 15kHz.

[Croweyes1121]

Originally Posted by StarkRomanoff

What's the point? Because you and others are still complaining that the 4K doesn't have lossless audio and you get that with the blu-ray. So if you are picking the blu-ray/DVD release over the 4K/Blu-ray release because of THAT, it's pretty dumb. I'm an audio person but I'll pick 4K image over DVD any day.

Uh...did it not occur to you that many have ALREADY bought the first set? Yes, I complain that the 4K didn’t have the lossless audio, because it ISN’T ON THE 4K discs! What good is lossless audio on a separate disc than the 4K, for God’s sake??

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by StarkRomanoff

What's the point? Because you and others are still complaining that the 4K doesn't have lossless audio and you get that with the blu-ray.

You're still not making a valid argument here. It shouldn't be an either/or scenario. The 4k release should have lossless audio just like the BD. It is the premium version, or supposed to be. It should have premium features.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

It's not. Dolby Digital lossy does not have a higher rate like say DTS-HD High Resolution that can be around 3 Mbps.

This has 640 kilobit DD lossy as per the Oppo's data stream analysis.

DD does. It's called Dolby Digital Plus. It also doesn't need higher bitrates for 5.1 since it was determined 640kbps is audibly transparent to the master in numerous tests. HD DVD used DD+ at 1.5Mbps for Paramount and Universal discs but this was marketing to silence the critics who thought DTS was "superior" since it was also 1.5Mbps. Truth was there was no audible difference between the 640kbps (which Warner used) and the 1.5Mbps rates.

DD+ can go to 6.1Mbps and up to 13.1 discrete channels. It's also the carrier method for lossy Atmos.


DD+ was actually created to have better performance at lower bitrates than DD. A 320kbps DD+ stream will have performance similar to a 384/448kbps DD stream.

Dolby AC-4 has even lower bitrates and has object audio built in. It has been selected as the audio format for ATSC 3.0 in the USA.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

DD does. It's called Dolby Digital Plus. It also doesn't need higher bitrates for 5.1 since it was determined 640kbps is audibly transparent to the master in numerous tests. HD DVD used DD+ at 1.5Mbps for Paramount and Universal discs but this was marketing to silence the critics who thought DTS was "superior" since it was also 1.5Mbps. Truth was there was no audible difference between the 640kbps (which Warner used) and the 1.5Mbps rates.

DD+ can go to 6.1Mbps and up to 13.1 discrete channels. It's also the carrier method for lossy Atmos.


DD+ was actually created to have better performance at lower bitrates than DD. A 320kbps DD+ stream will have performance similar to a 384/448kbps DD stream.

Dolby AC-4 has even lower bitrates and has object audio built in. It has been selected as the audio format for ATSC 3.0 in the USA.

Right, but I wasn't talking about DD Plus. I will edit for clarity. If the Oppo is to be believed, it's not even a DD Plus track on the 4k disc here.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Right, but I wasn't talking about DD Plus. I will edit for clarity. If the Oppo is to be believed, it's not even a DD Plus track on the 4k disc here.

No, but if it's just 5.1 & 640kbps it doesn't need to be DD+

[birdztudio]

if it's their intention, why don't just give us VHS lol

[wozman]

Originally Posted by rpvee

Not to make a big new post in this thread over and over again, but in addition to the new pictures I posted on the previous page...

One of the NYC members I bought one of the three remaining copies for has declined theirs. That means I have at least one extra copy of this release weeks early. I’m still waiting to hear from the third NYC member. The second has claimed his copy.

So, the question is: how do I go about choosing a lucky member to get this extra copy? When I first posted about this release on Sunday, my inbox here was flooded with members asking me to get them a copy, and some even offered extra money as incentive. I’m not interested in that.

We’re all nerds here with the same hobby and passion for collecting, and too often in our field of interest, financial stability plays a role in one’s ability to build their collection further (ebay can be a prime example of this). So, I want this to be fair for everybody for once. All I’d ask is to reimbursed for the set at cost, plus shipping. Goodness knows that if the tables were turned, I wouldn’t be able to bribe someone with extra money to try to convince them to sell a rare whatever to me.

How should I go about this? Collect the usernames of everyone interested and do a random drawing? I’m open to ideas, though of course, I’d like to do this soon, since the whole point is getting this to whoever ends up with it well before the street date.

Looking forward to opinions,

Brian

Brian thanks again for sourcing this out, and bringing it to all of our intentions. with photos and all, plus sending it to 4K users for there reviews first hand. kudos....

Random draw sounds great to me, add my user name in please, and thanks. No hope in hell scoring a copy since I live in Canada and we don't have a Target, as they left our country years ago.

[formula_nebula]

Originally Posted by wozman

Brain thanks again for sourcing this out, and bringing it to all of our intentions. with photos and all, plus sending it to 4K users for there reviews first hand. kudos....

Random draw sounds great to me, add my user name in please, and thanks. No hope in hell scoring a copy since I live in Canada and we don't have a Target, as they left our country years ago.

If you change the A and the I around his name would be Brian. Idget

Rednecks - Kalifornia.jpg

[PissedOffPeoN]

Audio Bit rate fight!

[StarkRomanoff]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

You're still not making a valid argument here. It shouldn't be an either/or scenario. The 4k release should have lossless audio just like the BD. It is the premium version, or supposed to be. It should have premium features.

I agree that there should be high quality audio on a 4K release. But there's "should" and then there's what it is. Right now it is what it is. What are you going to do about it? Write to Netflix about your concerns and see if they pull the product they've already shipped out and make the audio lossless. In the meantime, complaining about the same thing page after page doesn't progress the conversation.

Originally Posted by Croweyes1121

Uh...did it not occur to you that many have ALREADY bought the first set? Yes, I complain that the 4K didn’t have the lossless audio, because it ISN’T ON THE 4K discs! What good is lossless audio on a separate disc than the 4K, for God’s sake??

Yeah you bought it without the foresight that a show mastered and streamed in 4K would get a 4K release. Now there is a 4K release. Return or sell the edition you bought so you don't have to double dip. Use that money to buy the 4K release. Easy peasy.

[unsung122212]

It looks like they fixed their system to not allow anymore sells as I just tried to buy another copy and the system wouldn't allow it. It said it couldnt sell till 11/19, this Sunday.

[Croweyes1121]

Originally Posted by StarkRomanoff

Yeah you bought it without the foresight that a show mastered and streamed in 4K would get a 4K release. Now there is a 4K release. Return or sell the edition you bought so you don't have to double dip. Use that money to buy the 4K release. Easy peasy.

Considering the audio is a *downgrade* on the 4K version, and there is no way at present to rip UHD discs to simply combine the 4K video with the lossless audio, there is exactly zero point in my doing that. Try again. It was a stupid move not to include lossless audio on the 4K version, plain and simple. If you disagree with that, fine. You’re still no less wrong.

[mysticwaterfall]

So, the audio doesn't bother me at all really, but the lack of HDR does give me some pause. Weird choice since it's one of the main selling points of 4K.

That being said though, I will never have fast enough internet to stream 4K Netflix, so like was previously mentioned this probably is my best bet at watching the show quality wise. If I'm going to see it, might as well see in the best way possible.

[Croweyes1121]

Originally Posted by mysticwaterfall

So, the audio doesn't bother me at all really, but the lack of HDR does give me some pause. Weird choice since it's one of the main selling points of 4K.

That being said though, I will never have fast enough internet to stream 4K Netflix, so like was previously mentioned this probably is my best bet at watching the show quality wise. If I'm going to see it, might as well see in the best way possible.

The Blu-ray already looks better than the 4K stream...and WITH lossless audio to boot.

[willbfree]

Now that I've read the above description of how Dolby Digital works, I doubt I'd notice any difference in the audio compared to lossless.

As to why Netflix did it, surely it was because they'd have needed another disc if they included lossless audio..so to keep the set cheap ($30!) they didn't.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by willbfree

Now that I've read the above description of how Dolby Digital works, I doubt I'd notice any difference in the audio compared to lossless.

As to why Netflix did it, surely it was because they'd have needed another disc if they included lossless audio..so to keep the set cheap ($30!) they didn't.

They needed BD-100's more than likely. Instead they used BD-66's. Not good for TV show sets, especially.

[ferocious_beast]

I didn't even consider this 4k release would have lossy audio... Man, wtf?!? I thought we were leaving that bs behind with regular blu ray. Sick of lossy audio tracks of older films' original mixes on BDs and now lossy of new original mixes on 4k!? I'm still getting this release, but good Lord! Beyond stupid.

[cynatnite]

I've been going back and forth on whether or not to upgrade considering the short amount of time I've had the BD. I'll never recoup what was paid.

Probably will just wait and see what's said about it before making a decision.