The Shining (1980)

[zafisher94]

I hope WB releases this on UHD in the near future. I'm not sure how much could be improved since the BD is already pretty damn good, but this is a film that deserves to be viewed with top notch a/v!

[Cherokee Jack]

Originally Posted by English Patient

The fansite, theoverlookhotel.com, even has the original screenplay pages of the deleted scrapbook scene:


http://www.theoverlookhotel.com/post...enplay-for-the

I wonder why Kubrick ultimately cut it. Maybe he thought it over-emphasized the hotel's unsavory history, which was already clear from the mention of Grady's murder/suicide and the Indian burial ground at the beginning.

In the novel, the scrapbook and the hotel's history played a much larger role; we see newspaper articles about all the crime and horror that occurred there. In a way, it parallels the flashbacks King provides about Jack's own sad, sordid history - his father's abuse and Jack's drinking, etc.

Hmm, that scene... does not read well. Almost like fan fiction to be honest.

Besides the writing quality issues I'm glad they left it out. Spells things out far too much regarding the hotel's history IMO and it's supposed placement distracts from the dread that's starting to ramp up at that point in the film. We really do not need a talky scene with Jack calming explaining something at length to Wendy after we've already seen the hotel beginning to have an effect on him.

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by English Patient

Yeah, and I remember reading how Diane Johnson (co-screenwriter) was disappointed that the scrapbook scene got cut. I think it was actually filmed.
I really wish the scene had been included because there was always this contradiction/continuity problem: during the job interview, Jack didn't know about the Grady murders and is surprised by them, but when he encounters Grady in the bathroom later in the movie, he tells Grady, "I recognized you. I saw your picture in the newspaper." If the scrapbook scene had been in there (the scrapbook had clippings of the Grady murder), then there wouldn't be this continuity problem.

Never been a continuity issue with me. When he tells Grady he knows what happened, it explains Jack's unconvincing "aw gee , really?" act in the interview.

[Cherokee Jack]

Originally Posted by Martoto

Never been a continuity issue with me. When he tells Grady he knows what happened, it explains Jack's unconvincing "aw gee , really?" act in the interview.

I think Jack's reaction is generally him trying hard to act nonchalant since he wants the job but Nicholson's delivery of 'Well... That is, uh, quite a story' doesn't play that way. He seems genuinely shocked by what he's just heard but recovers his poise fairly quickly after that moment of letting his guard down.

Still, I never got hung up on the continuity myself. Considerable time passes between the interview and their actual stay at the hotel. Jack easily could have looked into the story at the library or something during that time. His character is a writer looking for ideas after all.

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by English Patient

The fansite, theoverlookhotel.com, even has the original screenplay pages of the deleted scrapbook scene:


http://www.theoverlookhotel.com/post...enplay-for-the

I wonder why Kubrick ultimately cut it. Maybe he thought it over-emphasized the hotel's unsavory history, which was already clear from the mention of Grady's murder/suicide and the Indian burial ground at the beginning.

In the novel, the scrapbook and the hotel's history played a much larger role; we see newspaper articles about all the crime and horror that occurred there. In a way, it parallels the flashbacks King provides about Jack's own sad, sordid history - his father's abuse and Jack's drinking, etc.

Those pages were cringe-inducing to read. Kubrick probably cut it because it was all just bad exposition, badly written.

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by Cherokee Jack

I think Jack's reaction is generally him trying hard to act nonchalant since he wants the job but Nicholson's delivery of 'Well... That is, uh, quite a story' doesn't play that way. He seems genuinely shocked by what he's just heard but recovers his poise fairly quickly after that moment of letting his guard down.

Still, I never got hung up on the continuity myself. Considerable time passes between the interview and their actual stay at the hotel. Jack easily could have looked into the story at the library or something during that time. His character is a writer looking for ideas after all.

Well there is a school of thought that links Jack's interview with the parlour scene from Psycho. In both scenes you have people not being entirely truthful with each other. And at least one of them knowing that the other is not but not letting on.

[English Patient]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

Those pages were cringe-inducing to read. Kubrick probably cut it because it was all just bad exposition, badly written.

I don't think it's any worse than a lot of the dialogue in the actual film ("Wow, this place is fantastic, isn't it, hon?" "Sure is!"). It's all in the delivery. But I do think Kubrick probably felt it too strongly underlined something (the evil in the hotel) that had already been subtly suggested in other places in the film. In Kubrick's couple of interviews about The Shining, he sort of criticized King for going on at length in the novel about certain things (like Jack's temper and his drinking) and said he tried to condense/distill those things into a brief moments that would convey the same feelings or information.

[Cherokee Jack]

Originally Posted by Martoto

Well there is a school of thought that links Jack's interview with the parlour scene from Psycho. In both scenes you have people not being entirely truthful with each other. And at least one of them knowing that the other is not but not letting on.

Do you happen to have any links to writing on that? I'd be interested to see the comparisons some are drawing to Psycho.

I do think it's possible that Jack is not being truthful in the interview btw, and he's certainly not being forthright about his own issues or how his family will like the hotel, but I place a lot of stock in Nicholson's line readings & facial expressions. There are multiple times later in the film for example when he seems utterly dumbfounded by what he's seeing in the hotel and what he's being being told by the ghosts. It just all adds up in my mind to a person who has no conscious awareness of his own history/role in the hotel.

Originally Posted by English Patient

I don't think it's any worse than a lot of the dialogue in the actual film ("Wow, this place is fantastic, isn't it, hon?" "Sure is!"). It's all in the delivery. But I do think Kubrick probably felt it too strongly underlined something (the evil in the hotel) that had already been subtly suggested in other places in the film. In Kubrick's couple of interviews about The Shining, he sort of criticized King for going on at length in the novel about certain things (like Jack's temper and his drinking) and said he tried to condense/distill those things into a brief moments that would convey the same feelings or information.

I think Wendy is written OK in that scene even if she does seem a bit like Nancy Drew at times. Her last line does seem to contradict Jack's assertion in the interview that she likes ghost stories and horror films but I suspect that was intentional. It's Jack dialogue that I find particularly poor: he basically provides a labored info dump and then abruptly transitions into language that's totally out of character for how he'd normally talk to Wendy when sober/sane. I agree that delivery is crucial in Kubrick films but I can't see Nicholson saving this.

I wonder if the jokingly scary 'whooo' line was taken from this scene and shifted to the end of the breakfast in bed scene instead? That ended up getting cut in the Euro version as well of course, a change for the better IMO.

[Bobbyjoe766]

I wonder if the scrapbook prop still exists? Being from a Kubrick film, it’s probably full of fascinating details on all the previous caretakers.

[English Patient]

Originally Posted by Cherokee Jack

I think Wendy is written OK in that scene even if she does seem a bit like Nancy Drew at times. Her last line does seem to contradict Jack's assertion in the interview that she likes ghost stories and horror films but I suspect that was intentional. It's Jack dialogue that I find particularly poor: he basically provides a labored info dump and then abruptly transitions into language that's totally out of character for how he'd normally talk to Wendy when sober/sane. I agree that delivery is crucial in Kubrick films but I can't see Nicholson saving this.

I wonder if the jokingly scary 'whooo' line was taken from this scene and shifted to the end of the breakfast in bed scene instead? That ended up getting cut in the Euro version as well of course, a change for the better IMO.

You hit the nail on the head about Jack's dialogue being a labored info dump topped off by the vulgar language. I bet the overly expository nature of the scene was the reason it was cut. In an interview, Kubrick quoted HP Lovecraft: "In all things mysterious, never explain!" He probably felt he'd already given the audience just enough info already about the hotel's past and this extra scene was overkill.

I think overall the dialogue in the film is a bit curious. It's almost like most of the time Kubrick and Diane Johnson were deliberately trying to make the dialogue bland, flat and utilitarian (until the ghosts start to appear and Jack goes mad, that is) - probably so it would feel more down-to-earth and realistic, and not sound too clever. King's novel had a lot of good, funny, smart dialogue, but Kubrick seemed to want more neutral dialogue (like the astronauts in 2001).

[English Patient]

this link has a pic of the inside of the prop scrapbook:

http://overlook151.rssing.com/chan-6986182/all_p1.html

[Bobbyjoe766]

Originally Posted by English Patient

this link has a pic of the inside of the prop scrapbook:

http://overlook151.rssing.com/chan-6986182/all_p1.html

Thanks for the link.

Very interesting. Such a meticulously crafted prop. He (Kubrick) even employed a journalist friend to furnish the aged scrapbook with fictitious newspaper clippings (after studying local newspapers to get the correct writing style for the area) of previous homicides surrounding the sinister hotel.

[Lyle_JP]

I remember years ago, TV Guide printed some previously unpublished parts of the novel "The Shining". I think this was when the miniseries was first aired. They all dealt with the history of the hotel. I don't know if that material has been published anywhere else.

[Bobbyjoe766]

Originally Posted by Lyle_JP

I remember years ago, TV Guide printed some previously unpublished parts of the novel "The Shining". I think this was when the miniseries was first aired. They all dealt with the history of the hotel. I don't know if that material has been published anywhere else.

[Show spoiler]

[Eye Candy]

Originally Posted by Bobbyjoe766

I wonder if the scrapbook prop still exists? Being from a Kubrick film, it’s probably full of fascinating details on all the previous caretakers.

The estate could scan it digitally and include it in a future re-release...

[Bobbyjoe766]

Originally Posted by Eye Candy

The estate could scan it digitally and include it on a future re-release...

That would be a fantastic extra.

[English Patient]

In my research on the movie, I found this site that actually had some shots from the scrapbook scene:

http://cinearchive.org/post/80490274...a-glimpse-into

It's too bad none of this footage seems to exist anymore, it would be great to see as a special feature on a future release.

[Bobbyjoe766]

Originally Posted by English Patient

In my research on the movie, I found this site that actually had some shots from the scrapbook scene:

http://cinearchive.org/post/80490274...a-glimpse-into

It's too bad none of this footage seems to exist anymore, it would be great to see as a special feature on a future release.

Perhaps the deleted scene may still exist - but as behind-the-scenes footage from Vivian Kubrick’s documentary - that is, the footage that didn’t make the final cut of the doc?

[English Patient]

Originally Posted by Bobbyjoe766

Perhaps the deleted scene may still exist - but as behind-the-scenes footage from Vivian Kubrick’s documentary - that is, the footage that didn’t make the final cut of the doc?

That's a possibility. For some reason I've become fascinated by this scene, even more so than the deleted hospital ending scene. I'm sure if I actually saw it I'd probably be underwhelmed - most of the time, deleted scenes are left on the cutting room floor for good reasons. But occasionally 'lost' scenes are really compelling - like the legendary 'spider walk' from The Exorcist, or the plantation sequence from Apocalypse Now (I know lots of people don't like this one but I do).

[Bobbyjoe766]

Originally Posted by English Patient

That's a possibility. For some reason I've become fascinated by this scene, even more so than the deleted hospital ending scene. I'm sure if I actually saw it I'd probably be underwhelmed - most of the time, deleted scenes are left on the cutting room floor for good reasons. But occasionally 'lost' scenes are really compelling - like the legendary 'spider walk' from The Exorcist, or the plantation sequence from Apocalypse Now (I know lots of people don't like this one but I do).

Deleted footage is of great interest to me. My dream would be to see every bit of unused footage from the original KING KONG (impossible and never going to happen) ALIEN, JAWS, THE TEXAS CHAIN SAW MASSACRE (1974), HALLOWEEN (1978), etc.