120hz. Why is it hard to understand?

[JasonHensley]

I swear everyday people talk about an LCD they saw at Best Buy and how it had that 3d look, soap opera effect, or the picture just didn't look right. Then a few minutes later, someone comes in and says that it is because of the 120hz technology that causes the picture to look like that. These people have no clue what they are talking about, and I can't believe they bother posting on a website like this when they can't even grasp a simple concept like this.120hz is a refresh rate, nothing more nothing less. Auto motion plus/enhancer is what causes this effect on LCDs and it can be turned off so the picture looks normal. I'm so sick of posters on this board giving out false information like this to people who don't know any better.

[RandDawg]

Originally Posted by JasonHensley

I swear everyday people talk about an LCD they saw at Best Buy and how it had that 3d look, soap opera effect, or the picture just didn't look right. Then a few minutes later, someone comes in and says that it is because of the 120hz technology that causes the picture to look like that. These people have no clue what they are talking about, and I can't believe they bother posting on a website like this when they can't even grasp a simple concept like this.120hz is a refresh rate, nothing more nothing less. Auto motion plus/enhancer is what causes this effect on LCDs and it can be turned off so the picture looks normal. I'm so sick of posters on this board giving out false information like this to people who don't know any better.

Tell us how you really feel.

[Audiophile_At_Birth]

It's hard to grasp a concept when facts themselves are irrelavent...The only way to stop this is to provide the correct information if you know it. So many people think they know what they are talking about when in reality they don't...and it only takes one person... All matters aside, don't kill the messenger...

[My_Two_Cents]

Gotta agree with the OP, but it's not limited to just 120Hz/automotion (though that seems to be the biggest piece of confusion). We've got lots of folks posting FUD and other uninformed or misinformed statements as fact, when they have no clue to what they are talking about. Most just need to be educated, and that's partly why this site exists. Others, however, either refuse to admit their understanding is incorrect (even when presented with facts/links) or simply don't have the intellect to do so.

It's not going to change, so we just need to educate as best as we can when we see this type of misinformation being presented.

Now, can someone explain to me why some movies don't fill my screen entirely? I mean, I bought a widescreen TV so I could watch these movies without those stupid black bars! What gives?

[drago3451]

Now, can someone explain to me why some movies don't fill my screen entirely? I mean, I bought a widescreen TV so I could watch these movies without those stupid black bars! What gives? [/QUOTE]

[yourstupidgame]

In general:

The problem is that many of these posters think they know what they're talking about, buy they don't. I would say that if you're completely confident that you know what you're talking about, please share your knowledge and advice. If you only think you know, or are pretty sure, just let someone else give the information.

On topic:
Posts that say, "I'm pretty sure that is caused by 120hz" aren't helpful at all!

[derelicte]

Forgive my ignorance, but don't you need the 120Hz capability in order to facilitate the interpolated frames that give it that "weird" look? 60Hz can only do 60 frames per second, so no odd movement look. But you need 120Hz to do flowmotion or trumotion or whatever - so technically it is due to that technology (though 120Hz can also be set to look "normal" too).
Or am I wrong? Not trying to be argumentative - just looking for clarification...

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by derelicte

Forgive my ignorance, but don't you need the 120Hz capability in order to facilitate the interpolated frames that give it that "weird" look? 60Hz can only do 60 frames per second, so no odd movement look. But you need 120Hz to do flowmotion or trumotion or whatever - so technically it is due to that technology (though 120Hz can also be set to look "normal" too).
Or am I wrong? Not trying to be argumentative - just looking for clarification...

I "think" they are independent (my understanding). Notice how I'm not stating this as fact. 120Hz sets came out first, then all of the motion interpolation crap came after that. I don't believe you need one in order to perform the other. They just happen to both be availble on the same sets. If someone knows "knows" otherwise and can explain or post links, then that would be great (and I promise not to get angry if my understanding was shown to be incorrect ).

[dereksworl]

Originally Posted by derelicte

Forgive my ignorance, but don't you need the 120Hz capability in order to facilitate the interpolated frames that give it that "weird" look? 60Hz can only do 60 frames per second, so no odd movement look. But you need 120Hz to do flowmotion or trumotion or whatever - so technically it is due to that technology (though 120Hz can also be set to look "normal" too).
Or am I wrong? Not trying to be argumentative - just looking for clarification...

Me from another thread:

120hz is just a refresh rate. Its only purpose is to reduce motion blur and judder which is was one of LCD's weak spots. If you watch sports(especially football) on a 60hz TV you might see the play start to become blury as he starts running or in golf as the golf ball flies through the air it will become blury and might look kinda like a comet Lol. 60hz is simply not fast enough to keep up with the speed of object. 120hz doubles the refresh rate to help eliminate this. MotionFlow is Sony's name for the frame interpolation feature it includes on some of it's LCDs. this is what causes the smooth, life like 3D looking picture. the frame interpolation adds in extra "in between" frames in the 120hz to make it look like you're actually looking at the movie right in front of you. it's also known as the window effect, because it looks light you're looking through a window, watching the movie live. If you had a LCD with 120hz without MotionFlow, you would not really see a difference other than no blur during fast moving objects.

Watch this video. It's gives you actual side by side comparison to show the difference of what 120hz does:

http://www.crutchfield.com/learn/lea...DTV/120Hz.html

There are LCD sets that are 120hz and do not have frame interpolation. I have one.

[SellmeyourDVD]

all it takes is for someone to read the sticky section of this part of the forum to really understand what 120hz and what the motion enhancers do. That is how i learned.... it wasn't very hard to understand either....

EDIT: Or well it used to be stickied, i think it got moved/deleted when they ended up revamping the forum. They should bring back that sticky though for the lcd part of the forum, had a ton of great info.

[FIDDYPOP]

You will always receive misinformation when you ask a general populous anything.

[turboLAZER]

the reason for the confusion is the that the only benefit from 120hz LCD's is that the 120hz is what makes automotion plus possible. and if you watch any commercials for these TVs, sharp, sony, and samsung try to sell you on the enhanced motion technology. some might say that 120hz is great because it uses a 5:5 pulldown for 24fps content, but the same could said for 48hz(2:2), 72hz(3:3), and 96hz(4:4).

so why buy a 120hz TV if you're not going to use the motion enhancer?

[stahl7639]

Originally Posted by SellmeyourDVD

all it takes is for someone to read the sticky section of this part of the forum to really understand what 120hz and what the motion enhancers do. That is how i learned.... it wasn't very hard to understand either....

EDIT: Or well it used to be stickied, i think it got moved/deleted when they ended up revamping the forum. They should bring back that sticky though for the lcd part of the forum, had a ton of great info.

+1. Some people don't take the time to read anything before they post.

[lettucenpico]

Originally Posted by JasonHensley

I swear everyday people talk about an LCD they saw at Best Buy and how it had that 3d look, soap opera effect, or the picture just didn't look right. Then a few minutes later, someone comes in and says that it is because of the 120hz technology that causes the picture to look like that. These people have no clue what they are talking about, and I can't believe they bother posting on a website like this when they can't even grasp a simple concept like this.120hz is a refresh rate, nothing more nothing less. Auto motion plus/enhancer is what causes this effect on LCDs and it can be turned off so the picture looks normal. I'm so sick of posters on this board giving out false information like this to people who don't know any better. I wish people could get this simple concept through their thick skulls because it really is starting to get rediculous...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...... I love when people explain how 120hz is just refresh rate, when the whole soap opera image is the "motion ehancement", ok so you're right is the motion enhancement. But how many people go! OH LOOK AT MY 60HZ with motion enhancement!, because the older 1080ps didnt have em!!!!!. Reason why people say 120hz instead of motion enhancement is its easier to say... You dont see people go "oh look at that motion ehancement", they say "oh look at that 120hz" because the effect is only on the 120hz tvs....

[RiseDarthVader]

But technically 120Hz is not what is causing so by incorrectly calling it 120Hz you are just confusing all the noobs.

[lettucenpico]

Right, but are there motion enhancements on a 60hz tv? Last I checked, I don't think so.

[dereksworl]

Originally Posted by lettucenpico

Right, but are there motion enhancements on a 60hz tv? Last I checked, I don't think so.

Originally Posted by lettucenpico

You dont see people go "oh look at that motion ehancement", they say "oh look at that 120hz" because the effect is only on the 120hz tvs....

But not all 120hz TVs have the motion enhancement/frame interpolation. so if you are misinforming people then they might buy a 120hz only TV thinking it will have frame interpolation, but it won't. so you can't just call it 120hz, because its not. call it what it is i.e. MotionFlow, Auto Motion Plus, TruMotion ect..

[Hoosier317]

Rather than talking about what is 120Hz or what is a motion feature. Let's just point out that every single LCD on the market at motion blur to some degree. These features are simply trying to mask this. Some do a better job than others, but in the end the all have blur.

[Sammy]

Originally Posted by turboLAZER

the reason for the confusion is the that the only benefit from 120hz LCD's is that the 120hz is what makes automotion plus possible. and if you watch any commercials for these TVs, sharp, sony, and samsung try to sell you on the enhanced motion technology. some might say that 120hz is great because it uses a 5:5 pulldown for 24fps content, but the same could said for 48hz(2:2), 72hz(3:3), and 96hz(4:4).

so why buy a 120hz TV if you're not going to use the motion enhancer?

120 Hz is the lowest common denominator of both 24 Hz (film) and 60 Hz (video). at this refresh rate you can go from T.V., cable, satelite or IPTV to Blu-ray without having to change the refresh rate on the T.V. each time.

[turboLAZER]

Originally Posted by Sammy

120 Hz is the lowest common denominator of both 24 Hz (film) and 60 Hz (video). at this refresh rate you can go from T.V., cable, satelite or IPTV to Blu-ray without having to change the refresh rate on the T.V. each time.

actually that's not true. the tv can automatically detect a 24fps source and activate the refresh rate that the user has chosen. there is no need to manually change the refresh rate every time the source changes.