HDR Discussion Thread

[PaulGo]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

If Lionsgate can sell UHDs with DV lower than $20 it's sure as hell not the money for licensing. They have the authoring tools.

Lionsgate sales are much lower so they want a competitive edge. With Disney where they expect huge sales the DV premium for total sales would be substantial.

[Geoff D]

But Dolby don't charge per title or per percentage of a title's sales, do they? I would've thought that the terms were like using Dolby's audio tools, you pay a fee for the mastering suite (and in the case of DV a Content Mapping Unit, a piece of additional hardware which is integrated into your main grading setup, providing it's compatible e.g. Lustre, Baselight, Resolve) plus an official DV-approved mastering monitor (Sony BVM-X300, Dolby Maui or Pulsar) but after that what you do with the content is your business, as long as you're paying Dolby their yearly tithe then you can release as many or as few UHDs as you like.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

Lionsgate sales are much lower so they want a competitive edge. With Disney where they expect huge sales the DV premium for total sales would be substantial.

You don't pay for DV based on total sales, just like they don't pay for Atmos or DTS-MA on how many copies sell. Tracking all that would be a licensing nightmare anyway. And Disney is more than happy to have the streaming versions have it - and that's where it seems the industry is trying to push the market anyway.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

You don't pay for DV based on total sales, just like they don't pay for Atmos or DTS-MA on how many copies sell. Tracking all that would be a licensing nightmare anyway. And Disney is more than happy to have the streaming versions have it - and that's where it seems the industry is trying to push the market anyway.

Exactly - Netflix, iTunes, Vudu marketing have no pricing differences that would suggest that DV enhanced content costs more.

Dolby does derive revenue from certification of content creation professionals.

[PaulGo]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But Dolby don't charge per title or per percentage of a title's sales, do they? I would've thought that the terms were like using Dolby's audio tools, you pay a fee for the mastering suite (and in the case of DV a Content Mapping Unit, a piece of additional hardware which is integrated into your main grading setup, providing it's compatible e.g. Lustre, Baselight, Resolve) plus an official DV-approved mastering monitor (Sony BVM-X300, Dolby Maui or Pulsar) but after that what you do with the content is your business, as long as you're paying Dolby their yearly tithe then you can release as many or as few UHDs as you like.

Good question! Penton-Man do you know how Dolby licenses DV for the distribution of Blu-ray discs?

[LordoftheRings]

Disney should use the best...Dolby Vision.

They are saying to all the families and children of the world that you don't need to buy a Dolby Vision TV to enjoy their HDR10 4k Blu-ray discs.
This is total non-sense good common sense.
They don't limit their movies to the high class, but equally to everyone.
That's why Disney is number one money maker in the movie business.
They're going to buy James Cameron and all his Avatar movies from FOX.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Disney should use the best...Dolby Vision.

They are saying to all the families and children of the world that you don't need to buy a Dolby Vision TV to enjoy their HDR10 4k Blu-ray discs.
This is total non-sense good common sense.
...

This is just wrong. Disney doesn't need to issue HDR10 only discs for HDR10 TV's.

Every Dolby Vision disc will AUTOMATICALLY play HDR10 on a 4K player and 4K tv that doesn't have DV. You get both versions on the same disc. It's not magic or a secret.

For more fun-filled facts about HDR, read the Ultra HD Blu-ray (4K) Discs and High Dynamic Range (HDR) thread folks. Credit to @Staying Salty.

[Snikt]

Curious about HDR? Is the picture supposed to be darkened with HDR? On my tv the 4K Blu-rays seem much darker than my standard ones.

I’ve read it’s supposed to make colors brighter and darks even darker. But I’m also under the impression it’s probably my tv (others have suggested this as well).

Would the only way to take full advantage of HDR is to buy a new 4K tv?

I have a Samsung UN55JU7100. I’m looking at upgrading to a 2018 Samsung model

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by gkolb

This is just wrong. Disney doesn't need to issue HDR10 only discs for HDR10 TV's.

Every Dolby Vision disc will AUTOMATICALLY play HDR10 on a 4K player and 4K tv that doesn't have DV. You get both versions on the same disc. It's not magic or a secret.

For more fun-filled facts about HDR, read the Ultra HD Blu-ray (4K) Discs and High Dynamic Range (HDR) thread folks. Credit to @Staying Salty.

What I'm saying is that if you have a 4K HDR QLED Samsung or 4K HDR Panasonic OLED TV or Sony/JVC ultra high end 4K HDR front projector, with Disney 4K flicks you won't feel missing a thing.
...The same if you use a sound bar in the kids room.

[ewsjr]

Originally Posted by Snikt

Curious about HDR? Is the picture supposed to be darkened with HDR? On my tv the 4K Blu-rays seem much darker than my standard ones.

I’ve read it’s supposed to make colors brighter and darks even darker. But I’m also under the impression it’s probably my tv (others have suggested this as well).

Would the only way to take full advantage of HDR is to buy a new 4K tv?

I have a Samsung UN55JU7100. I’m looking at upgrading to a 2018 Samsung model

From looking at the specs on your display, it is not an HDR capable 4K TV. So yep, you may have to purchase a new HDR capable display. If you can afford it, I would, in my opinion, it really does make a difference in the PQ.

[Snikt]

Originally Posted by ewsjr

From looking at the specs on your display, it is not an HDR capable 4K TV. So yep, you may have to purchase a new HDR capable display. If you can afford it, I would, in my opinion, it really does make a difference in the PQ.

It received an HDR upgrade through a firmware update last year sometime. From what I've read, the tv is probably outputting 60-70% of what full HDR is capable of.

I just need to see a 4K blu-ray in person on a fully capable HDR 4K tv.

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

You don't pay for DV based on total sales, just like they don't pay for Atmos or DTS-MA on how many copies sell. Tracking all that would be a licensing nightmare anyway. And Disney is more than happy to have the streaming versions have it - and that's where it seems the industry is trying to push the market anyway.

I don't think their partners would agree to pay a licensing fee on every IP they produce. Display manufacturers would not pay for every panel they ship.

I don't know if it's true or not. When I got my HDR TV, I noticed a in PQ for some titles released by WB on Vudu. The Mad Max Fury Road stream appeared to be dark and a lot of detailed was crushed. Then one day, I noticed that the black crush was gone, colors didn't appear to be over saturated, especially the signal mortars. On the display forum, I mentioned it and suggested it was a regrade, but everyone else shot it down as just a server issue.

So if there is a push to digital, I wouldn't be surprised. 5G wireless technology is just around the corner with speeds exceeding some home implementation.

HDR has already gone mobile, shortly broadcast television will be in HDR. AT&T is currently installing fiber lines, they have laid off 240 Directv satellite technicians and several supervisors, where I worked for 8 years, in anticipation of the move from set top boxes. The entire entertainment industry is headed to streaming.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

I don't think their partners would agree to pay a licensing fee on every IP they produce. Display manufacturers would not pay for every panel they ship.

I don't know if it's true or not. When I got my HDR TV, I noticed a in PQ for some titles released by WB on Vudu. The Mad Max Fury Road stream appeared to be dark and a lot of detailed was crushed. Then one day, I noticed that the black crush was gone, colors didn't appear to be over saturated, especially the signal mortars. On the display forum, I mentioned it and suggested it was a regrade, but everyone else shot it down as just a server issue.

So if there is a push to digital, I wouldn't be surprised. 5G wireless technology is just around the corner with speeds exceeding some home implementation.

HDR has already gone mobile, shortly broadcast television will be in HDR. AT&T is currently installing fiber lines, they have laid off 240 Directv satellite technicians and several supervisors, where I worked for 8 years, in anticipation of the move from set top boxes. The entire entertainment industry is headed to streaming.

And when it happens everyone who is in this hobby will scream bloody murder that there is no high quality, low DRM alternative to streaming. They'll rue the day they made the switch away from physical media.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

So if there is a push to digital, I wouldn't be surprised. 5G wireless technology is just around the corner with speeds exceeding some home implementation.

HDR has already gone mobile, shortly broadcast television will be in HDR. AT&T is currently installing fiber lines, they have laid off 240 Directv satellite technicians and several supervisors, where I worked for 8 years, in anticipation of the move from set top boxes. The entire entertainment industry is headed to streaming.

Really bought into the AT&T/Sprint 5G marketing haven’t you? Look your comparing 4G that operates at highest frequency of 2.5 GHz, where as 5G is operating at 28 GHz! Most people are clueless to what that entails, well as you go way higher in microwave frequency your propagation gets impaired by solid obstacles and takes exponentially more power to transmit for equivalent range. The best you could expect for 5G is about 1500 feet on a elevated antenna array, versus 3 to 10 miles for LTE depending on terrain and obstructions. I just see the wireless industry finally reaching a wall they can’t climb over.

[wxman2003]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Really bought into the AT&T/Sprint 5G marketing haven’t you? Look your comparing 4G that operates at highest frequency of 2.5 GHz, where as 5G is operating at 28 GHz! Most people are clueless to what that entails, well as you go way higher in microwave frequency your propagation gets impaired by solid obstacles and takes exponentially more power to transmit for equivalent range. The best you could expect for 5G is about 1500 feet on a elevated antenna array, versus 3 to 10 miles for LTE depending on terrain and obstructions. I just see the wireless industry finally reaching a wall they can’t climb over.

Plus, does anyone think AT&T, Verizon, etc would offer unlimited 5G data to a person's home for less than $80 a month? I can get 1 Gbps internet for $80 a month from my cable company and I don't even get cable tv.

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

What I'm saying is that if you have a 4K HDR QLED Samsung or 4K HDR Panasonic OLED TV or Sony/JVC ultra high end 4K HDR front projector, with Disney 4K flicks you won't feel missing a thing.
...The same if you use a sound bar in the kids room.

Well, it's inevitable. Dolby Cinema has started popping up on movie advertisement billboards and movie trailers. Once the connection is made between the two for casual consumers that don't frequent boards discussing HDR tech. Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos will be on your Q10FN.

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Really bought into the AT&T/Sprint 5G marketing haven’t you? Look your comparing 4G that operates at highest frequency of 2.5 GHz, where as 5G is operating at 28 GHz! Most people are clueless to what that entails, well as you go way higher in microwave frequency your propagation gets impaired by solid obstacles and takes exponentially more power to transmit for equivalent range. The best you could expect for 5G is about 1500 feet on a elevated antenna array, versus 3 to 10 miles for LTE depending on terrain and obstructions. I just see the wireless industry finally reaching a wall they can’t climb over.

No, I don't watch much broadcast television. That's why I mentioned AT&T is installing fiber lines. They know and understand that a physical line is more reliable then any wireless tech.

At some point 5G will get better. I'm just hoping that content can be downloaded at some point with a similar compression ratio to disc. I prefer disc, disc for me is a guarantee that I will always access to movies I purchase.

Vudu and Vizio had recent issues that's been resolved with DV Profiles not matching, it's not something to worry about when you have physical copy.

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by wxman2003

Plus, does anyone think AT&T, Verizon, etc would offer unlimited 5G data to a person's home for less than $80 a month? I can get 1 Gbps internet for $80 a month from my cable company and I don't even get cable tv.

No, I wasn't implying or suggesting. Streaming UHD HDR plus Atmos to a mobile device, will become a thing.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

No, I don't watch much broadcast television. That's why I mentioned AT&T is installing fiber lines. They know and understand that a physical line is more reliable then any wireless tech.

At some point 5G will get better. I'm just hoping that content can be downloaded at some point with a similar compression ratio to disc. I prefer disc, disc for me is a guarantee that I will always access to movies I purchase.

Vudu and Vizio had recent issues that's been resolved with DV Profiles not matching, it's not something to worry about when you have physical copy.

The mobile providers are more interested in content being in short chunks then a larger file download as you are experienced. We learned that with AT&T's discussion with Time Warner. See AT&T wants to overhaul HBO, says it isn’t profitable enough - Ars Technica

HBO must compete with smartphones for people's attention, Stankey said in this exchange with Plepler:

"We need hours a day," Mr. Stankey said, referring to the time viewers spend watching HBO programs. "It's not hours a week, and it's not hours a month. We need hours a day. You are competing with devices that sit in people's hands that capture their attention every 15 minutes."

Continuing the theme, he added: "I want more hours of engagement. Why are more hours of engagement important? Because you get more data and information about a customer that then allows you to do things like monetize through alternate models of advertising as well as subscriptions, which I think is very important to play in tomorrow's world."

What these wireless companies want to do is not favor watching a HBO show that lasts an hour or more, but something that is shorter, like a chapter in a story. Kinda reminds me of how soaps operate on daytime TV. I think it's a fascinating tact to get people more addictive to cell phones and step further away from what you and me desire which is HDR based film content such as in movies. I just don't think as far as 5G being an equivalent of the internet via a wireless access point is ever going to be there. Instead it will be to customized/highly compressed content/text/messages/news because their subscriber base is sinking the cell tower ship as they struggle to stay afloat.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

The mobile providers are more interested in content being in short chunks then a larger file download as you are experienced. We learned that with AT&T's discussion with Time Warner. See AT&T wants to overhaul HBO, says it isn’t profitable enough - Ars Technica



What these wireless companies want to do is not favor watching a HBO show that lasts an hour or more, but something that is shorter, like a chapter in a story. Kinda reminds me of how soaps operate on daytime TV. I think it's a fascinating tact to get people more addictive to cell phones and step further away from what you and me desire which is HDR based film content such as in movies. I just don't think as far as 5G being an equivalent of the internet via a wireless access point is ever going to be there. Instead it will be to customized/highly compressed content/text/messages/news because their subscriber base is sinking the cell tower ship as they struggle to stay afloat.

Wish you would post over at the Digital V Physical section as backup. I have been saying this for years. People don’t realise that films are at risk and our most beloved hobby could disappear. People blindly back digital not realising the true intentions of the big players imo.

In this future, HDR becomes irrelevant. Time people woke up to digital and the possibility of no more films at home.