MA is now supporting 4K streaming

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by dunnbluray

Great! The quality is better than iTunes. I've been doing comparisons between Movies Anywhere, iTunes and Vudu on my Apple TV 4K. The order goes as below.

Movies Anywhere > iTunes > Vudu

I concur with this. It’s kind of shocking how good Movies Anywhere’s quality is.

[IndyMLVC]

I've never heard anyone put Vudu below iTunes. They're consistently with Amazon at the top.

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

I've never heard anyone put Vudu below iTunes. They're consistently with Amazon at the top.

I’ve always considered Vudu the worse of the streaming lot.

[bladerunner1]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

I’ve always considered Vudu the worse of the streaming lot.

But they really weren't until iTunes 4k.

That is if we are only talking about PQ.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by papamarg

You must be trolling, right? (your use of inaccurate statements in other threads makes me think so, like where you claim Apple does not remove titles after a refund despite all the evidence to the contrary) Amazon is in no way better than iTunes, just take a look at the compression!

Uhh...i post here a helluva lot more than you do. I'm most assuredly not trolling. And, btw, that Apple statement is still true. Do I need to show receipts?

Vudu download file sizes (at least for HDX) are usually SIGNIFICANTLY higher than Apple.

[Greyman]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

Uhh...i post here a helluva lot more than you do. I'm most assuredly not trolling. And, btw, that Apple statement is still true. Do I need to show receipts?

Vudu download file sizes (at least for HDX) are usually SIGNIFICANTLY higher than Apple.

While it used to be true that the same file was used for streaming and download, I have seen reports on here that that is no longer true.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by Greyman

While it used to be true that the same file was used for streaming and download, I have seen reports on here that that is no longer true.

For which service?

[Greyman]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

For which service?

iTunes, with higher bit rates for streaming than download. Don’t know if this is a true fact though.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by Greyman

iTunes, with higher bit rates for streaming than download. Don’t know if this is a true fact though.

Enhhhh....I'd need to see some hard evidence before I believed that. I remember comparing download sizes on itunes and Vudu and, for a 2 hour movie, Vudu was about 6-8GB. Itunes was around 3-5GB. Granted, file size isn't everything but that's a pretty big difference, all things considered.

Of course, right now I can't find the threads where people pointed out how clearly Amazon and Vudu were the winners. I really just use digital as a back-up so I don't really pay a ton of attention to it.

[solarrdadd]

[avs commenter]

Amazon is the worst PQ for streaming by far.

Vudu, MA and Itunes are all about the same IMO. Vudu would be my winner though just based on having a much more Dolby Vision and Atmos content than the others.

[Greyman]

Originally Posted by Greyman

iTunes, with higher bit rates for streaming than download. Don’t know if this is a true fact though.

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

Enhhhh....I'd need to see some hard evidence before I believed that. I remember comparing download sizes on itunes and Vudu and, for a 2 hour movie, Vudu was about 6-8GB. Itunes was around 3-5GB. Granted, file size isn't everything but that's a pretty big difference, all things considered.
...

Here are some of those posts I was referring to.

Originally Posted by Fiffy

...

And to answer the OP's question, yes, even for 1080p content the streamed versions on Apple TV 4/4K now use higher bitrates than the iTunes downloads (see e.g. here). Whether or not you can see or hear a difference is of course another question. Personally I think the downloaded iTunes files still look quite good.

Originally Posted by Fiffy

Did a little more digging using the developer HUD on the ATV. I switched the ATV to 1080p/SDR output and tested a number of movies. The streamed bitrates are consistently higher than those of downloaded files. Even TV shows stream with those higher bitrates. As an example, I'm attaching the HUD output from the pilot episode of Almost Human at around the same playback position, both when streaming and when playing the downloaded file via Homesharing. The downloaded file shows the old iTunes bitrate of ~5 Mbps, whereas the streamed version shows an average bitrate of 13-14 Mbps, as well as a different codec identifier.

I hope they'll make the upgraded video available for download at some point too, but I'm not too optimistic.

Originally Posted by SpaceBlackKnight

Most definitely, as there's more of a finer grain structure on some movies when streaming due to the higher bitrate (which is usually around 15-22mbs). It's funny that the downloads/hard copy files are still at a much lower bitrate than streaming, because in most cases it's the other way around.

Originally Posted by IronSoldier

I'd love for someone able to pull up xcode right now and check right now on stream details for appleTV to correct me on this....but...

In the authoring document there are suggested bit rates content are provided at. This max's at 7800 for H264 and 7000 for HDR H265 and 5800 for H265 @ 1080. Which is why it gets complicated.

4k digital streams will all use H265 codec. Whereas 1080p varies by device and content. On PC the only streamer supporting 4k playback is Netflix but that requires a certain intel cpu or nvidia gpu for the drm+H265 hardware decoding.

Now that's established, 1080p on dedicated devices... Last august/sept TVOS 11 rolled out to 4th gen apple TVs adding software decoding of H265. As such they decided to play around with the options they have ready for 4k ATV. Some 1080p TV shows and Films will now be using H265 instead of H264. Similarly Fire TV Stick 2nd Gen came with support for H265 for 1080P earlier in the year/end of 2016

AppleTV vs iTunes
On PC Apple and Amazon still use H264. So the stream going to your apple TV may end up being 5.8Mb/s H265 whereas on iTunes equivalent you'd get 5.8Mb/s MPEG4 Part 10 aka H264. The H265 stream will look better as the compression is more efficient in maintaining data. In theory 50% but in practise 25-35%. Much like how a 1L engine 10 years ago has nowhere near the power 1L engine just built does.. it's much more efficient. So you end up getting a better image overall whilst using the same bitrate. There have been a couple of people saying their bitrate of content has also gone up on the AppleTV all the way up to 15Mb/s for a 1080p H265 stream which matches Amazon's Web H264 maximum but being more efficient so looks better. Note however this bitrate goes far beyond suggested in document above so isn't straight out their streaming quality.
So AppleTV provide better quality than iTunes and equal or better than Amazon's Web service.

Amazon Web vs Amazon Device
As mentioned newest amazon devices and smart TV apps and AppleTV App support H265. The bitrate hasn't seemed to increase for 1080p content but it's the more efficient codec. So amazon device stream will look better than web*.

Amazon Device vs AppleTV
As the bitrate isn't increased it therefore matches what the appleTV is providing for H265 streams and they should roughly be equal from the concept of file size, codec and bitrate.. the only difference is the encoding that happens. Amazon and Apple use a different algorithm to compress. Which you prefer is down the end user. Much like some discs can have a bad copy of a film Apple and Amazon have their own issues at times from time to time.
*Saying something here looks better is based from bitrate and codec. Mileage may vary. Also H265 is a MaciTunes thing right now from my understanding alongside Kaby Lake requirment

Then there is the 4k stream rabbit hole im going to avoid due lack of visual experience and UK options being utter garbage outside of netflix originals and AppleTV 4k. Step up your game Amazon, Google, Flixster

tl:dr
Amazon Device ≃ AppleTV > AmazonWeb > iTunes



Had changed noise to grain and kept deliberating. You're correct and I agree with you. The encode won't introduce grain but I believe apple applies their own grain when mastering for their platforms. Additionally my understanding was iTunes H265 support is Mac High Serria + Kaby Lake limited at this time? Are you aware of where Quicktime is at with H256 files? From memory it wasn't supported.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads...loads.2063000/

When streaming an iTunes purchase on the Apple TV 4 from the movies or tv shows apps, the video bitrate was variable, shifting in a range of roughly 7mbps to 15mbps. This applied to both movies and tv shows purchased from iTunes, and is significantly higher than the roughly 5.6mbps constant bitrate that 1080p HD iTunes downloads are, when downloaded to a computer. This even matches or beats Vudu HDX streams.

[XanderAE]

Originally Posted by dunnbluray

Great! The quality is better than iTunes. I've been doing comparisons between Movies Anywhere, iTunes and Vudu on my Apple TV 4K. The order goes as below.

Movies Anywhere > iTunes > Vudu

Could anyone explain to me how this can be? I thought as MA simply connects multiple provider purchases into a single place, it would use whichever provider's streaming version. Are we saying that MA has its own version of a movie, compressed in its own individual way and plays this when it detects that you've purchased said movie from one of the MA suppliers?

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by XanderAE

Could anyone explain to me how this can be? I thought as MA simply connects multiple provider purchases into a single place, it would use whichever provider's streaming version. Are we saying that MA has its own version of a movie, compressed in its own individual way and plays this when it detects that you've purchased said movie from one of the MA suppliers?

Yep

[Greyman]

Originally Posted by XanderAE

Could anyone explain to me how this can be? I thought as MA simply connects multiple provider purchases into a single place, it would use whichever provider's streaming version.

MA stores purchase rights in a single place but uses its own streams.

Originally Posted by XanderAE

Are we saying that MA has its own version of a movie, compressed in its own individual way and plays this when it detects that you've purchased said movie from one of the MA suppliers?

Yes

[XanderAE]

Thanks for explaining guys, appreciate it.

So, my next question is, what is it about the MA encodes that we think makes them better than iTunes? Have we got specific case examples, with our comparisons? I’m trying to understand if it may be worth signing up to MA or not myself, based on qualitive examples of how it is better, presentation-wise.

Thanks in advance.

[vwnut13]

Originally Posted by XanderAE

Thanks for explaining guys, appreciate it.

So, my next question is, what is it about the MA encodes that we think makes them better than iTunes? Have we got specific case examples, with our comparisons? I’m trying to understand if it may be worth signing up to MA or not myself, based on qualitive examples of how it is better, presentation-wise.

Thanks in advance.

It's worth it to sign up for Movies Anywhere even if the quality was worse.

[crackedknee]

Originally Posted by XanderAE

So, my next question is, what is it about the MA encodes that we think makes them better than iTunes? Have we got specific case examples, with our comparisons? I’m trying to understand if it may be worth signing up to MA or not myself, based on qualitive examples of how it is better, presentation-wise.

Nothing. In fact, that's why the more services access the MA (and/or UV) library, the better.

1. MA is worth having to redeem codes, to have an organized list of digital rights (ditto the UV locker/account).

2. in the days of 4 UV services, you could watch a certain movie where the encode was best. For example, FandangoNow might have a movie in HD, but Vudu only has it in SD. So best to watch that particular movie in FN (in HD). To give an example, I have Cahill U.S. Marshal in Vudu, but it's SD and in the wrong aspect ratio (1.78). In MA it is HD and 2.39 aspect ratio, and does appear to be that HD scan that does exist (presumably from the BD release).

So the more services you have connected to your MA and UV libraries, the better. the easier it will be for you to pick and choose which service to use. And other than the example above, I usually choose Vudu first, FN second, MA last. If I had AppleTV I would probably use that more often than any of those to stream UHD material.

[avs commenter]

Problem with MA is for some reason on Apple TV it doesn’t always playback in 24p

[kurtis21]

So let me get this straight...the concensous seems to be that the best streaming services in order are as follows.....

1) Movies Anywhere
2) Vudu
3) iTunes
4) Amazon

Is this pretty much correct!?!?