Superman: The Movie 4K UHD (1978)

[bytor]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's a great idea in principal, my wider point that I hinted at in the section you quoted is that my TV just isn't doing it properly, and people have been complaining about dim DV on Sony's TVs for a while. I didn't believe them, even took the piss out of them (sorry brasil), but now I do.

As I just said in the King Kong thread: when you've got a monster of a TV, and most movies are graded to look nice and bright, and you watch stuff in a darkened room anyway, then the dimness doesn't make itself readily apparent in most content - but on STM it really hit the image hard and from further testing across DV movies old and new the same thing is happening: the DV is heavily cutting into the brightness. I can raise the contrast on my TV to restore some luminance but then it starts to clip out highlight detail which is exactly the sort of thing that DV is supposed to guard against!

Factor in the Dolby grey bars problem which I've had to create a workaround for (an issue with the Lift (black level) control in the metadata mastering whereby the playback is transposing those raised black values onto the black bars, which Dolby are now advising against using in their official 'Best Practices' documentation: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...0#post15977220) and that's just too much uncertainty for what I should be seeing, given how I pride my arrogant forums persona on being eagle eyed, calibrated to the nines etc etc. Forget that bollocks, now I'm just one of the regulars, flying blind when it comes to HDR.

#mikewasrightagain

I have a Z9D as well and I don't think it's a Sony problem. How do you explain Dolby Vision discs that look great and have plenty of brightness like The Matrix? A lot of scenes in that movie are almost blindingly bright. I imagine for whatever reason a lot of studios are just authoring Dolby Vision to be less bright. Maybe because Dolby Vision is primarily an OLED thing and they just aren't thinking about Dolby Vision on these high nit LED sets?

That's interesting though about the grey bar problem, thanks for posting that. I mean if they were doing that wrong there are probably a plethora of things they're still doing wrong with Dolby Vision.

[Geoff D]

I already said why: if something is mastered with a good chunk of brightness then the hit that DV takes just isn't going to be as readily apparent...but it's still there compared to the HDR10 output. I've verified this on several DV joints.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The film remains a sheer delight. I mentioned before that I wept when watching Supes and Lois take to the skies in the "can you read my mind?" scene when watching the 4K first time around, it seemed so poignant now that Kidder and Reeve have passed on, but this time I felt a powerful sense of exhilaration and joy.

For me, it's Pa Kent saying "oh, no." Kills me every time.

[nick4Knight]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

For me, it's Pa Kent saying "oh, no." Kills me every time.

Holy sheet. For sure. I haven't seen this yet on UHD, but got a shiver up my spine just reading that and remembering my last BD viewing. Which is years ago... 5 or more.

[bytor]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I already said why: if something is mastered with a good chunk of brightness then the hit that DV takes just isn't going to be as readily apparent...but it's still there compared to the HDR10 output. I've verified this on several DV joints.

So do you really think it's just Sony's implementation of DV or it's probably happening with LG OLEDs too and they just don't get bright enough to really tell the difference anyway? What do you do with a disc like Saving Private Ryan where the chroma compression is a lot better in DV? Just deal with the decreased brightness?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

For me, it's Pa Kent saying "oh, no." Kills me every time.

Oh man, oh man. Glad you mentioned that as it slayed me once again last night. Every time that happens I feel like crying, yet he's only been on-screen for like 10 minutes! It's such a gut punch and the performance is astonishing: the twitching on his face, the desperate realisation in his eyes that these are his last moments, and then the collapse like a puppet with the strings cut. Wow.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by bytor

So do you really think it's just Sony's implementation of DV or it's probably happening with LG OLEDs too and they just don't get bright enough to really tell the difference anyway? What do you do with a disc like Saving Private Ryan where the chroma compression is a lot better in DV? Just deal with the decreased brightness?

I can't speak for other brands of TV because I haven't measured their comparative light outputs in calibrated HDR10 vs DV, nor compared how they handle the highlight mapping by way of a trade-off, but given other anecdotal evidence that DV is just too dark for some people on Sony TVs (it was mentioned a lot in conjunction with the reviews of the 2018 sets) then it's a fair bet that there's something hinky going on there.

And yes, for any disc that has insurmountable problems in HDR10 (I actually mentioned SPR in my post in the King Kong thread ) then I'll continue to watch the DV version if it can mollify those problems. But from here on out I'll default to the HDR Optimised HDR10 output on any new titles that I watch, and if I run into any such problems re: compression then I'll certainly check out the DV.

[Staying Salty]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

... given how I pride my arrogant forums persona on being eagle eyed, calibrated to the nines etc etc. Forget that bollocks, now I'm just one of the regulars, flying blind when it comes to HDR.

I sent you a PM. Your reviews are totally accurate as they stand because you list your equipment in the title.

[StingingVelvet]

I was on AVS the other day reading some old stuff by a pro-calibrator about my television and he talked about how accurate and easy to calibrate it was in SDR with local-dimming on normal. Then he talked about how out of his mind calibrating it in HDR with high local-dimming was making him. HDR is fun stuff!

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's a great idea in principal, my wider point that I hinted at in the section you quoted is that my TV just isn't doing it properly, and people have been complaining about dim DV on Sony's TVs for a while. I didn't believe them, even took the piss out of them (sorry brasil), but now I do.

As I just said in the King Kong thread: when you've got a monster of a TV, and most movies are graded to look nice and bright, and you watch stuff in a darkened room anyway, then the dimness doesn't make itself readily apparent in most content - but on STM it really hit the image hard and from further testing across DV movies old and new the same thing is happening: the DV is heavily cutting into the brightness. I can raise the contrast on my TV to restore some luminance but then it starts to clip out highlight detail which is exactly the sort of thing that DV is supposed to guard against!

Factor in the Dolby grey bars problem which I've had to create a workaround for (an issue with the Lift (black level) control in the metadata mastering whereby the playback is transposing those raised black values onto the black bars, which Dolby are now advising against using in their official 'Best Practices' documentation: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...0#post15977220) and that's just too much uncertainty for what I should be seeing, given how I pride my arrogant forums persona on being eagle eyed, calibrated to the nines etc etc. Forget that bollocks, now I'm just one of the regulars, flying blind when it comes to HDR.

#mikewasrightagain

Well as I'm sure you're aware, I've discovered some major Dolby Vision issues on my 2016 LG LCD set since I got my Sony x700 player for Christmas. Granted my TV isn't the best HDR set, (it's not even rated a premium set), but it gets pretty darned bright for my dark-room viewing, and HDR10 looks pretty fantastic overall for the titles I've seen so far. But Dolby Vision has been a nightmare and I'm convinced I just can't watch it on my set. There's clearly firmware issues with LG and Dolby Vision that extend beyond the 2018 OLED models that I've been reading about. People on AVS have also confirmed seeing the same issues on the same model set I have.

So even though Dolby Vision is actually supposed to help get the best out of TVs with lesser capabilities, in fact its unusable on many, imo. Now I don't know if that's Dolby Vision's fault or LG's fault, but in the end, it's bad news for me and I'm sure many others.

As far as HDR settings, I've given up on trying to use HDR test patterns. I just go by eye at this point. I have a good idea of when blacks are starting to crush or things are blowing out. Trying out the Mehanik HDR10 test patterns, they specifically advice not using the brightness slider in the TV's menu with the patterns (they say it's likely broken for HDR regardless of which TV you have, and I'm not going into my service menu as I don't have the experience or knowledge or equipment). So it seems to me most people are probably just winging it with HDR settings. I don't think anybody really knows quite where their settings should be for HDR, and honestly, I think HDR is kinda all over the place anyways from one disc and studio to another.

I definitely find that I have to make minor adjustments (a few clicks) one way or the other for some discs. It seems so far with older films that have been remastered in 4k/HDR I can leave my brightness setting around 49, but for newer films shot digitally, I get black crush at 49 and need to bump it up to 51. If I have my set at 51 for older films the blacks are too bright and washed out. 2001 has very light blacks for me - I need to drop it way down or space looks awfully grey.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I was on AVS the other day reading some old stuff by a pro-calibrator about my television and he talked about how accurate and easy to calibrate it was in SDR with local-dimming on normal. Then he talked about how out of his mind calibrating it in HDR with high local-dimming was making him. HDR is fun stuff!

Don't take this as me pissing on your parade - easy tiger - but calibrating HDR on the Sony isn't the problem, it responds very well to the PQ brightness curve, it's DV being fubar that's the main issue for moi.

[LexInHD]

The HDR debacle is one reason why I've held off on getting a UHDTV. I'm hopeful that the new industry standard HDR format - for both theatrical and home presentations - being hammered out will make things better, but that's still a long way off.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by LexInHD

The HDR debacle is one reason why I've held off on getting a UHDTV. I'm hopeful that the new industry standard HDR format - for both theatrical and home presentations - being hammered out will make things better, but that's still a long way off.

I'm not swearing off of HDR or anything like that, it's still one of the biggest improvements to my personal viewing experience that I've had in the last 25 years. And it's not like I'm throwing HDR10 in the bin either, it's Dobly where my illusions have been shattered.

As for this other HDR format, I'll file that away with other predictions such as "replicated 128GB discs are coming" and "Peter Jackson will redo the CG in all the LOTR movies when the Avatars are finished".

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Don't take this as me pissing on your parade - easy tiger - but calibrating HDR on the Sony isn't the problem, it responds very well to the PQ brightness curve, it's DV being fubar that's the main issue for moi.

I think he was just saying the bright bursts of high nit content were screwing with his gamma calibrations, so I don't think it was my set in particular. Just him getting used to HDR calibrating I guess? I dunno.

[Fendergopher]

I still hold that despite the magic 12 bit processing of DV, most people would be better off if studios just put all their effort into making the best HDR10 encodes they possibly can *cough*StudioCanal*cough*. Outside the possibility of true 12 bit panels reaching consumers sooner rather than later, I only see it creating more problems than it's worth.


This is coming from someone who's never mastered a single piece of content in their life though, so what the heck do I know?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I think he was just saying the bright bursts of high nit content were screwing with his gamma calibrations, so I don't think it was my set in particular. Just him getting used to HDR calibrating I guess? I dunno.

But gamma control isn't used with HDR, or at least it wouldn't normally be. Depends on the telly I guess. That goes to the problem of how does one regulate the Perceptual Quantiser EOTF curve that has replaced Gamma (with a capital 'G', as in the SDR EOTF), when you've only got Gamma-centric controls to control it with. Thankfully most TVs tend to hug the PQ curve pretty well out of the box (tone mapping irregularities aside) but even so, I'd have thought that finer controls over specific HDR picture functions would've come along by now. Seems like most manufacturers are still gearing their TV processing for SDR first and foremost and then shoehorning HDR functions into that by way of gamma conversion.

[McCrutchy]

https://lalalandrecords.com/superman...tion-3-cd-set/

Originally Posted by La-La Land Records

La-La Land Records, Warner Bros. Entertainment, Warner Music Group and DC Entertainment proudly continue SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE’s 40th anniversary celebration with a 3-CD remastered limited edition re-issue of the original motion picture score to the 1978 feature film classic, starring Marlon Brando, Gene Hackman, Christopher Reeve and Margot Kidder, and directed by Richard Donner. Academy Award-winning composer John Williams (STAR WARS, E.T., HARRY POTTER) unleashes an iconic musical masterwork, propelling the Man of Steel through what is still considered by many to be the best superhero film ever made. A recent discovery of the score’s original 2-inch, 24-track music masters has led the way to a stellar, high-resolution transfer by Warner Sound. This first generation element has been restored, remixed, assembled and remastered by album producer Mike Matessino, resulting in a stunning presentation of this legendary score that is unparalleled in its sonic quality. Discs One and Two present maestro Williams’ film score in its glorious, full form, while Disc Two also contains a bounty of alternate/additional cues (including an astonishing early version of “The Fortress of Solitude” that remained vaulted and unplayed for four decades), and Disc Three showcases the original 1978 soundtrack presentation, rebuilt and remastered from these newly restored recording elements. Supervised and approved by composer John Williams, this special 3-CD release is limited to 5000 units and features a 44-page booklet with in-depth liner notes. The heroic art design is by Jim Titus. A must for all film and film music enthusiasts, this outstanding reissue – simply put – is like hearing SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE for the very first time!

TRACK LISTING:

[Show spoiler]Disc One
Score Presentation

1 Prelude and Main Title 5:06
2 The Planet Krypton and The Dome Opens 6:39
3 Destruction of Krypton (Extended Version) 7:57
4 The Kryptonquake 2:27
5 The Trip to Earth 2:33
6 The Crash Site :39
7 Growing Up 2:01
8 Jonathan’s Death 3:27
9 Leaving Home 4:52
10 The Fortress of Solitude (Extended Version) 9:22
11 The Mugger 2:11
12 Lex Luthor’s Lair (Extended Version) 4:54
13 The Helicopter Sequence 5:59
14 The Burglar Sequence and Chasing Crooks 3:21
15 Cat Rescue and Air Force One 2:17
16 The Penthouse 1:35
17 The Flying Sequence (Instrumental Version) 8:12
18 Clark Loses His Nerve :51

Disc One Total Time: 74:34

Disc Two
Score Presentation Continued

1 The March of the Villains 3:37
2 The Truck Convoy Sequence 3:27
3 To the Lair 2:21
4 Trajectory Malfunction 1:21
5 Luthor’s Lethal Weapon 2:13
6 Superman Rescued and Chasing Rockets 5:01
7 Golden Gate Bridge and The Rescue of Jimmy 4:57
8 Pushing Boulders and Flying to Lois 5:26
9 Turning Back the World 2:06
10 The Prison Yard and End Title 6:41
11 Love Theme From Superman 5:03
Total Score Time: 1:56:36

Additional Music

12 Prelude and Main Title (Alternate) 3:49
13 The Planet Krypton (Alternate Segment) 3:18
14 The Dome Opens (Alternate) 2:31
15 The Fortress of Solitude (Alternate Segment) 4:12
16 The Mugger (Alternate) 1:29
17 Prelude and Main Title (Film Version) 5:23
18 I Can Fly (Flying Sequence Alternate Segment) 2:15
19 Can You Read My Mind (Film Version) 3:04
20 Trajectory Malfunction (Alternate) 1:04
21 Turning Back the World (Extended Version) 2:20
22 The Prison Yard and End Title (Film Version) 5:48

Total Time: 35:13

Disc Two Total Time: 78:00

Disc Three
Remastered 1978 Original Soundtrack

1 Theme From Superman (Main Title) 4:29
2 The Planet Krypton 4:49
3 Destruction of Krypton 6:03
4 The Trip to Earth 2:28
5 Growing Up 1:56
6 Love Theme From Superman 5:02
7 Leaving Home 4:52
8 The Fortress of Solitude 8:32
9 The Flying Sequence / Can You Read My Mind 8:14
10 Super Rescues 3:27
11 Lex Luthor’s Lair 2:37
12 Superfeats 5:04
13 The March of the Villains 3:37
14 Chasing Rockets 7:37
15 Turning Back the World 2:06
16 End Title 6:36

Disc Three Total Time: 77:55
Three-Disc Total Time: 3:50:29

[punisher]

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

https://lalalandrecords.com/superman...tion-3-cd-set/

I got the email...very tempting..wish it was on Vinyl too

[Vangeli]

Picked that up and also noticed they had a Buffy The Vampire Slayer release(?!) and got that as well.

Yay music

[danny_boy]

Check this out:

STM's first home video release way back in October 1980(nearly 2 years after it's 78' theatrical release!)...reviewed in The Videophile:


Scroll down to page 35-36:


http://magazines.lddb.com/The.Videop...ber%201980.pdf

The reviewer gave the picture quality a thumbs up:
"Although I would rate the tape's picture quality tops...…"