Kino Lorber Studio Classics

[professorwho]

Originally Posted by Kyle15

Alphaville's subtitles need to be re-done tbh. They're on the cusp of experience-ruining. The site's review noting that they're fine is definitely not the case.

Mind giving examples? I don't own it, so I'm curious if they're as bad as you're implying.

[Kyle15]

Originally Posted by professorwho

Mind giving examples? I don't own it, so I'm curious if they're as bad as you're implying.

Here's my post from the thread where I went into detail:

Originally Posted by Kyle15

I just watched this for the first time and LOVED it. However, the elephant in the room; the subtitles. There are numerous missing lines throughout and a moment of closed captioning style sound effects nonsense that happens in one instance. The site review called the subtitles "excellent" and free of errors. Yeah.

The main issue is missing lines by way of dialogue being displayed too long, leaving lines untranslated. It's not constant but it's there. There is also an instant of what appeared to my ears English/French spoken by one character, and this particular sequence is entirely unsubtitled.

It's a shame because the encode on this is pretty much perfection.

I can't really screencap these since they're mostly timing-related, aside from instances where there are no subtitles during dialogue.
It's still watchable, but it's enough that I noticed and got annoyed. The subtitles should not be like the way they are.

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by Kyle15

Here's my post from the thread where I went into detail:

I can't really screencap these since they're mostly timing-related, aside from instances where there are no subtitles during dialogue.

They've botched subtitles before. The Park Is Mine were incorrectly coded at the end of every line, leaving symbols after the words. The Emerald Forest had only the Indian language subbed, but they advertised it as a full SDH.

When people complained about The Park is Mine subs being wrong, the old "Insider" attacked them and said "people wanted them so we put them on there, people are never happy." So, typical response from them.

[Kyle15]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

They've botched subtitles before. The Park Is Mine were incorrectly coded at the end of every line, leaving symbols after the words. The Emerald Forest had only the Indian language subbed, but they advertised it as a full SDH.

When people complained about The Park is Mine subs being wrong, the old "Insider" attacked them and said "people wanted them so we put them on there, people are never happy." So, typical response from them.

At the risk of getting chewed-out by certain parties; that's embarrassing. lol

[noirjunkie]

Originally Posted by Kyle15

I can't really screencap these since they're mostly timing-related, aside from instances where there are no subtitles during dialogue. It's still watchable, but it's enough that I noticed and got annoyed. The subtitles should not be like the way they are.

The issue of missing lines isn't uncommon with subtitling. Often, subtitles have to simplify the dialogue or eliminate pieces that aren't "essential" to understanding what the characters are saying to be able to fit the dialogue onto the screen without being visually intrusive and/or only include enough dialogue that the person reading it can finish it before the next line appears.

I don't know if this is the case with this release, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were.

[DawnShadow]

Originally Posted by tama

Wrong.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Kind-...lu-ray/241763/

Oh nice! That looks like it much nicer release, would definitely choose that over Kino's!

At least if that company stuffs it up, they'll have a 100% higher chance of issuing a replacement disc

Here's a link to the cheaper Blu-ray only option, because why pay an extra 10 pounds for a DVD :P
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Kind-...lu-ray/241764/

[Bates_Motel]

Obviously the Kino is not the same frame, but you can see that the aspect ratio of Kino's disc is exactly the same as the 2011 2K master, NOT the new 2019 4K one, which is wider and shows more info on both sides. They were given the wrong master for Coronets, but not sure about the other two, or if different masters even exist for them.

But Coronets should definitely be recalled and the proper master released, if they are actually claiming it's the new StudioCanal 4K restoration, which it is not.

[DawnShadow]

Kino stuffing up yet again and not admitting it. How amusing.

[Kyle15]

Originally Posted by noirjunkie

The issue of missing lines isn't uncommon with subtitling. Often, subtitles have to simplify the dialogue or eliminate pieces that aren't "essential" to understanding what the characters are saying to be able to fit the dialogue onto the screen without being visually intrusive and/or only include enough dialogue that the person reading it can finish it before the next line appears.

I've been watching subtitled content for years, I understand how it works. There are sections of the film, including one scene that is entirely unsubtitled. These are not typical moments that aren't always subtitled. (like repeated uses of 'oui' and the like)I don't know how else to put it.

There's a scene with a closed captioned style sound effect that appears, for a single instance and no other time. I don't know how else to put it. There are instances that are incorrectly timed. I don't know how else to put it.

If you want me to rip the disc and cut those scenes and upload them for you I'd be more than happy to.

I don't have a single subtitled disc in my collection, live action or otherwise, that has subtitles like this one. It is not consistent scene to scene.

I don't know if this is the case with this release, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were.

I appreciate the assumption this is my first piece of subtitled media and I don't know what I'm talking about.
Check the disc first before you assume I don't know how subtitling works.

[Aclea]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

This was one of three version of this story that Harry Alan Towers produced, one in the 60s, one in the 70s, one in the 80s. I liked this one the least. The best of the three was the 1965 version, which is a Warner title.

When I worked for Old H.A.T. the (not entirely accurate) running joke was that he'd only made ten films but he'd made each of them half a dozen times. He always preferred working from public domain literary properties, and his flat was full of them (the combination of name recognition and no royalties was irresistible to him) but if he ever actually had to pay for the rights to something - Fu Manchu, Harry Palmer, And then There Were None - he was damn well going to get his money's worth out of it and squeeze it until the pips squeaked. To the very end he had plans for another Fu Manchu film and another version of And Then There Were None.

[James Luckard]

Is there any word yet on BLACKMAIL?

The BFI-restored silent version looks stunning.

However, both included versions of the "talkie" version seem to have issues, as I mentioned earlier.

The version on disc 2, labelled as 1.20 (which would be the OAR), appears to be squished to around 1.10.

I'm unclear about the reason for the apparently stretched 1.33 version being included on disc 1.

I would definitely like to hear Kino's comments on this.

[DawnShadow]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

Is there any word yet on BLACKMAIL?

The BFI-restored silent version looks stunning, I watched it on Friday.

However, the "talkie" version seems to have an issue, as I mentioned earlier. The version on disc 2 labelled as 1.20 (which would be the OAR) appears to be squished to around 1.10. I still am also unclear about the reason for the 1.33 stretched version being included on disc 1.

I would definitely like to hear Kino's comments on this.

Kino wouldn't deem that an issue that warrants a replacement, as shown by their recent definition of what is and isn't "warranted".

Hint : Essentially nothing, including incorrect pitch, aspect ratio or even a case of digitally erasing the coin in a cartoon that revolves around said coin warrants a replacement

[James Luckard]

They chose to include the two different versions, so I'm sure they have their reason. It certainly cost them more to have 2 discs, with two transfers of the "talkie" version. I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt until I hear directly from them.

That said, the 1.20 version seems to be a simple technical mistake. It's clearly labeled 1.20 on the disc, so they obviously intended to present it that way, in its OAR. Something must have gone wrong in the mastering, resulting in the squished 1.10 final product. A replacement disc 2 would seem warranted.

[kvnbhovis]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

Is there any word yet on BLACKMAIL?

The BFI-restored silent version looks stunning.

However, both included versions of the "talkie" version seem to have issues, as I mentioned earlier.

The version on disc 2, labelled as 1.20 (which would be the OAR), appears to be squished to around 1.10.

I'm unclear about the reason for the apparently stretched 1.33 version being included on disc 1.

I would definitely like to hear Kino's comments on this.

The BFI silent version looked the best but other than not being as restored, both sound versions looked fine to me and I looked at all 3 pretty closely. I didn't notice any problems at all. I think DvdBeaver has an ax to grind.

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by Kyle15

I've been watching subtitled content for years, I understand how it works. There are sections of the film, including one scene that is entirely unsubtitled. These are not typical moments that aren't always subtitled. (like repeated uses of 'oui' and the like)I don't know how else to put it.

There's a scene with a closed captioned style sound effect that appears, for a single instance and no other time. I don't know how else to put it. There are instances that are incorrectly timed. I don't know how else to put it.

If you want me to rip the disc and cut those scenes and upload them for you I'd be more than happy to.

I don't have a single subtitled disc in my collection, live action or otherwise, that has subtitles like this one. It is not consistent scene to scene.



I appreciate the assumption this is my first piece of subtitled media and I don't know what I'm talking about.
Check the disc first before you assume I don't know how subtitling works.

do you have the Criterion dvd to compare to? I don't remember any problems spoken about their release.

[Kyle15]

Originally Posted by jcs913

do you have the Criterion dvd to compare to? I don't remember any problems spoken about their release.

I unfortunately do not. I doubt the scene that's unsubtitled is also unsubtitled on theirs though.

[f451]

Originally Posted by Kino Lorber Insider

Yeah, I couldn't believe no one guessed it either, they guessed everything else. The other 80s title will be confirmed this weekend. The 60s one won't be confirmed till next year.

Let me guess -- the 4K fully restored road show of John Wayne's THE ALAMO! Not likely. But, well, there it is.

[Mister_Kidd]

Originally Posted by Kyle15

I unfortunately do not. I doubt the scene that's unsubtitled is also unsubtitled on theirs though.

Do you have a time stamp on the scene? I’d be happy to check my DVD later to see if the subs are there.

[GeoffOliver]

Yeah, Kino did go to the expensive of adding a whole second disc to Blackmail just to present the film in that specific aspect ratio. There is no other content on the disc other than the film in the different aspect ratio (and the commentary, also available on Disc 1). If that’s botched, the disc seems pretty pointless.

I will echo James’ sentiment that the silent version (my preferred version) on Disc 1 looks lovely. Aside from the botched Disc 2, I’m happy with the set overall. It would be nice to have a copy of the sound version in its OAR as Kino intended though, and I would absolutely participate in a replacement program of Disc 2.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

Obviously the Kino is not the same frame, but you can see that the aspect ratio of Kino's disc is exactly the same as the 2011 2K master, NOT the new 2019 4K one, which is wider and shows more info on both sides. They were given the wrong master for Coronets, but not sure about the other two, or if different masters even exist for them.

But Coronets should definitely be recalled and the proper master released, if they are actually claiming it's the new StudioCanal 4K restoration, which it is not.

[Show spoiler]

Could this be a possible sleight of hand by Studio Canal so that they could push their release?