240Hz LCD

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by Sonny

I don't think you understood my post? Why would manufactures stop at 240Hz? like I said before LED is great for LCD but of course it has nothing to do with motion blur & refresh rates. Get the panels well under 2ms & then we would be getting some where.

Actually localized dimming could get rid of some of the grays/browns that should be black and streaking and thus reduce motion blur.

[dereksworl]

Originally Posted by aramis109

Actually localized dimming could get rid of some of the grays/browns that should be black and streaking and thus reduce motion blur.

Indeed. From what i understand, LEDs in fact help reduce motion blur more than the increasing the refresh rate.

[mustang-gt-2002]

I've had 1080p LCD's for around 2 years. now I have the samsung LN46A650 120Hz LCD for around 9 months. where are all the 120Hz players?

[dereksworl]

Originally Posted by mustang-gt-2002

now I have the samsung LN46A650 120Hz LCD for around 9 months. where are all the 120Hz players?

What you mean?

[Sonny]

I'll give you that LED's do help with motion blur because of localized dimming, but there still gunna have to get those liquid crystals to respond faster, & if they don't they will need every trick in the book to "cure" LCD's problems ( & there's plenty ). I guess if they can get enough things to "help" the display maybe one day they will be worthy...

[hagar852]

the refresh rate won't help motion very much. What I would be concerned with is reponse time of the LCD's themselves. A slow response time will create the motion blur you speak of. LCD's need faster response time so they can change color and whatever faster.

[mustang-gt-2002]

Originally Posted by dereksworl

What you mean?

we have players that play at 24Hz(Blu-ray) and 60Hz(like computers & PS3) but no players outputing 120Hz why not.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by mustang-gt-2002

I've had 1080p LCD's for around 2 years. now I have the samsung LN46A650 120Hz LCD for around 9 months. where are all the 120Hz players?

120Hz has nothing to do with a player. It's the refresh rate of the display (the number of times per second the picture is "flashed" onto the screen).

...and don't buy into the 120Hz capable HDMI cable nonsense, either, for the same reason.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by mustang-gt-2002

we have players that play at 24Hz(Blu-ray) and 60Hz(like computers & PS3) but no players outputing 120Hz why not.

24p means the player outputs the picture at 24 frames per second, which is how movies are filmed, versus converting it to the standard 60Hz (frames per second). Not exactly sure why 60Hz was the standard output, but probably something to do with 30 fps standard video output.

[jibucha]

Hello

You are entirely accurate; this is the fundamental problem with LCD Technology, more than anything else.

It is the problem itself, that 120Hz and 240Hz solutions are trying to improve on, as the LCD response time itself is so poor.

While 120H and 240Hz refresh does help, the underlying problem is still unresolved; but these higher refresh rates do help considerably.

Thank You

Originally Posted by hagar852

the refresh rate won't help motion very much. What I would be concerned with is reponse time of the LCD's themselves. A slow response time will create the motion blur you speak of. LCD's need faster response time so they can change color and whatever faster.

[NutsAboutPS3]

Surely a lot of motion blur is in the source itself? They don't shoot movies with high shutter speeds, they actually intentionally allow shots with movement to have some motion blur to create more natural looking movement at the relatively low frame rate of 24fps.

If you pause the movie and the still image on the screen has some motion blur, then no amount of 240Hz or faster LCD refresh rate is going to change it.

[jibucha]

Hello

24Hz l It is the frame rate of film cameras used from the beginning of motion pictures and is currently still almost entirely used today.

30Hz & 60Hz l This is the rate of progressive and interlaced, which are the frequency of our electrical system; it is 60Hz, that all electronics in the United States are based on.

1080/24p l Typically, movies are transfered from film to Blu-ray in 1080/24p, which maintains the best possible quality from original film. This output availability of Blu-ray players and input & display abiltiy of the higher quality displays, eilminate the artifacts caused by changing 24fps to 30fps and 60fps, which is commonly known as 2:3 pulldown.

Thank You

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

24p means the player outputs the picture at 24 frames per second, which is how movies are filmed, versus converting it to the standard 60Hz (frames per second). Not exactly sure why 60Hz was the standard output, but probably something to do with 30 fps standard video output.

[jibucha]

Hello

Almost entirely, motion blur is a display issue and not source issue.

It is unusual to catch blur on pause mode in my experience; rarely do I see it, and I am thinking that it is simply catching an unusual frame issue, when I do.

I watch on CRT Technology exclusively, and motion blur whether a still frame in pause or during any motion, is essentially non-existent in more than thirteen thousand hours of viewing during the past decade or so.

Only recently, on very few occassions, have I seen motion blur on pause, which I believe is due to the compressed bandwidth of broadcasters in the recent time frame of broadcast, as our image quality in broadcast has declined significantly in the past year or so. I believe that this poor image quality is directly tied to the overal quality of the signal and display, rather than the original content itself; mostly, the display quality itself and it's processing quality as well.

Thank You

Originally Posted by NutsAboutPS3

Surely a lot of motion blur is in the source itself? They don't shoot movies with high shutter speeds, they actually intentionally allow shots with movement to have some motion blur to create more natural looking movement at the relatively low frame rate of 24fps.

If you pause the movie and the still image on the screen has some motion blur, then no amount of 240Hz or faster LCD refresh rate is going to change it.

[jibucha]

Hello

Well, it is quite clear that we entirely disagree; such is life.

Additionally, when 240Hz displays are in retail and available for everyone to compare 120Hz and 240Hz for themselves; you will find many more that can easily see the difference and will also disagree.

I look forward to their availability, that anyone that chooses to take the time, will be able to decide for themselves than to rely on our text information here currently.

Thank You

Originally Posted by Sonny

Sorry to burst your bubble , but it won't.

[dereksworl]

52" 2160p, 240Hz, LED LCD with a respone time under 1/2ms! Oh yeah and 10bit color processing

[hagar852]

Originally Posted by dereksworl

52" 2160p, 240Hz, LED LCD with a respone time under 1/2ms! Oh yeah and 10bit color processing

With that response time you won't need 240hz refresh..

[dereksworl]

Originally Posted by hagar852

With that response time you won't need 240hz refresh..

I know, but just for 24p playback. ensure no flicker

[jibucha]

Hello

I think what he is indicating, which I agree, it that there is a limit to just how effective this approach can be, and that at 240Hz, I believe that there is not much more advantage to increasing refresh rates; especially when the problem fundamentally is a LCD Technology issue.

Thank You

Originally Posted by Sonny

I don't think you understood my post? Why would manufactures stop at 240Hz? like I said before LED is great for LCD but of course it has nothing to do with motion blur & refresh rates. Get the panels well under 2ms & then we would be getting some where.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by jibucha

Hello

30Hz & 60Hz l This is the rate of progressive and interlaced, which are the frequency of our electrical system; it is 60Hz, that all electronics in the United States are based on.

That's incorrect, the rate of progressive and interlaced depends on the source.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by mustang-gt-2002

we have players that play at 24Hz(Blu-ray) and 60Hz(like computers & PS3) but no players outputing 120Hz why not.

Nothing has 120Hz source, so why do you need 120Hz output?

Blu-ray is 24Hz (and 30Hz/60i) source. Computers are 60Hz outputting to digital panels. That is the source data.

Gary