Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

None of the studios are trying to make EST the dominant form of home media but that doesn't mean they shouldn't promote it.

Will have to disagree on that one. They would love to have total control of their content with no First Sale Doctrine to contend with. They have proved this several times and I have already posted references. I fully expect the studios to try other schemes in the future.

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Premium mediocrity.

Who doesn't love paying more and getting less?

Alchav21

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Alchav21

He really likes the bargain that streaming is for those of us that share accounts.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

The discussion started when Lee posted a link that showed the studios were promoting EST and you stated that "That ship has sailed." The promotion will most likely lead to some growth and it therefore did it's job. None of the studios are trying to make EST the dominant form of home media but that doesn't mean they shouldn't promote it.

I don’t care where the conversation started. You butted in at that precise time, referring to that precise comment.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Premium mediocrity.

Who doesn't love paying more and getting less?

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Alchav21

Originally Posted by Vilya

He really likes the bargain that streaming is for those of us that share accounts.

I don't know where you get that idea that I like shared accounts. I don't like shared accounts because you bring in more problems. You have to rely on the Shared Members to not change things on accounts. For this reason I never share accounts.

Nobody loves paying more for Movies and TV Shows, bargains are always in high demand. My Streaming is mostly in HD, and all I need for this Quality is 20Mbps Average. Very easy to accomplish with my set up, equipment, and Bandwidth. So I am set for the Streaming Future with FTTH and Hard Wired!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I don't know where you get that idea that I like shared accounts. I don't like shared accounts because you bring in more problems. You have to rely on the Shared Members to not change things on accounts. For this reason I never share accounts.

I know that you dislike shared accounts; therein lies the humor.

If you trust the people with whom you share accounts, there is little to worry about. There are no earth shattering changes that I can make to a Netflix account, for example, especially when my benefactor already has the best plan. The worst that I could do would be to lower their monthly bill.

[SCLee]

Disney+ to lower streaming quality.

https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/a31853...d-coronavirus/

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by SCLee

Disney+ to lower streaming quality.

https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/a31853...d-coronavirus/

It’s not exactly going to be a great first impression is it?

Surely they should be reducing their subscription by 25% also?

I wouldn’t be surprised if this becomes a permanent thing. If they don’t get many complaints they will probably just figure, ‘what the heck, let’s just save on bit rates in the future also’!

[SCLee]

Speaking of bitrates, I have a bitrate question. Why does the bitrate go up and down when watching a 4K disc? A quick press of the playback info will show that the bitrate is all over the place, it's on 14, then 22, then 26, then 6, then 12... well you get the idea...

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by SCLee

Speaking of bitrates, I have a bitrate question. Why does the bitrate go up and down when watching a 4K disc? A quick press of the playback info will show that the bitrate is all over the place, it's on 14, then 22, then 26, then 6, then 12... well you get the idea...

It depends on the scene in question. A static, talking head is going to need far less bit rate than a frantic action scene for example. Likewise, a scene with a lot of background information is going to see a increase in bit rates compared to a relatively sedate scene.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by SCLee

Speaking of bitrates, I have a bitrate question. Why does the bitrate go up and down when watching a 4K disc? A quick press of the playback info will show that the bitrate is all over the place, it's on 14, then 22, then 26, then 6, then 12... well you get the idea...

And seeing as I'm asking questions.

Has anyone experienced an error message when loading a 4K disc? It says something like to enjoy this disc in 4K, connect to a HDCP 2.2 port. But it's so fast and then it's gone. This is right at the beginning as the Universal card loads. I used to get it a lot with Sony titles, but since changing my players (still Panasonic) it hasn't happened until now (with a Universal title.)

I think it's because the player is reading the disc as 1080p temporarily, as it loads, because when the film is playing, the playback info is showing 4K resolution and it looks like it's in 4K! It's frustrating though.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It depends on the scene in question. A static, talking head is going to need far less bit rate than a frantic action scene for example. Likewise, a scene with a lot of background information is going to see a increase in bit rates compared to a relatively sedate scene.

Thanks. What, even in an animated film? Because that's what I'm watching.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by SCLee

Thanks. What, even in an animated film? Because that's what I'm watching.

Yeah, sure.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yeah, sure.

Good to know, thanks.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by SCLee

And seeing as I'm asking questions.

Has anyone experienced an error message when loading a 4K disc? It says something like to enjoy this disc in 4K, connect to a HDCP 2.2 port. But it's so fast and then it's gone. This is right at the beginning as the Universal card loads. I used to get it a lot with Sony titles, but since changing my players (still Panasonic) it hasn't happened until now (with a Universal title.)

I think it's because the player is reading the disc as 1080p temporarily, as it loads, because when the film is playing, the playback info is showing 4K resolution and it looks like it's in 4K! It's frustrating though.

I have a Pioneer and a Sony PS4. Nope, haven’t had that yet. I only have around 28 4K titles at present though.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I have a Pioneer and a Sony PS4. Nope, haven’t had that yet. I only have around 28 4K titles at present though.

I found a thread about it here. I'm not sure if it's the exact same message, as it's too fast to read... it stays on the screen for only a few seconds, but it's either the same or similar.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=274435

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by SCLee

I found a thread about it here. I'm not sure if it's the exact same message, as it's too fast to read... it stays on the screen for only a few seconds, but it's either the same or similar.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=274435

Interesting. Thanks for the link. Must be certain combinations of equipment.

[Phillip c. Niethe]

Physical media for life, the majority of people that I know who use streaming happen to mostly stream illegally, films that are in theatres along with their cheap Netflix and Hulu accounts and most the digital downloads they aquire are from people who give away their digital slips or sell them for a buck...I myself give away all my slips to a couple of people who can't afford to collect physical. I often wonder how many of those digital numbers vs physical media numbers are the people not actually spending a single cent. I prefer to finance the producers of the products that I purchase so they continue to produce more high quality products... Streaming and red box killed the rental brick stores and robbed hundreds of thousands of mom and pop businesses out of a job. Streaming should be illegal as it destroys the ability to draw income for hundreds of thousands and places it in the pockets of dozens

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Phillip c. Niethe

Physical media for life, the majority of people that I know who use streaming happen to mostly stream illegally, films that are in theatres along with their cheap Netflix and Hulu accounts and most the digital downloads they aquire are from people who give away their digital slips or sell them for a buck...I myself give away all my slips to a couple of people who can't afford to collect physical. I often wonder how many of those digital numbers vs physical media numbers are the people not actually spending a single cent. I prefer to finance the producers of the products that I purchase so they continue to produce more high quality products... Streaming and red box killed the rental brick stores and robbed hundreds of thousands of mom and pop businesses out of a job. Streaming should be illegal as it destroys the ability to draw income for hundreds of thousands and places it in the pockets of dozens

Netflix began their streaming service in 2010. By that time all the mom and pop video rental stores were long gone. They perished because Hollywood set up a different model for DVD (ownership) than it did for VHS (rental).

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by SCLee

Speaking of bitrates, I have a bitrate question. Why does the bitrate go up and down when watching a 4K disc? A quick press of the playback info will show that the bitrate is all over the place, it's on 14, then 22, then 26, then 6, then 12... well you get the idea...

technical answer
the way encoding works is you have I-frames, p-frames and possibly b frames.

think of I-frames like a picture (like a jpg) it can be compressed but should try and represent the whole picture. when it is over compressed it will lose detail

p-frames stands for predicted frame and just records the changes to the preceding frame (plus, possibly, additional detail lost in the previous frame)

b-frames stand for bi directional predicted frame and is there for trick play (e.g. rewind) it is like the p frame but from both directions (i.e. these are the differences from the previous frame and these are the differences from the next one (so that when you go backwards the image can also be smoother)

why did I include the above? a simple picture in an I-frame will need less info then a more complex one, plus, even more importantly, if the frame is a p/b and there is almost no difference the p/b can be very small.

so the rate will depend on
a) what is happening on screen (can we do it in less bits)
b) variables inputted in the encoder (aka a ceiling on quality aka don't use more bits even though the picture needs it because the media can't afford it)