Star Trek 1 - 10 'Enterprise' Box Set!

[CouncilSpectre]

I think the difference between CBS and WBs here is that the former is looking at it from a purely economic perspective, and right now, the numbers don't add up.

WBs on the other hand, well it must be difficult to see anything with your head wedged that far up your own ass.....

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by CouncilSpectre

I think the difference between CBS and WBs here is that the former is looking at it from a purely economic perspective, and right now, the numbers don't add up.

WBs on the other hand, well it must be difficult to see anything with your head wedged that far up your own ass.....

Right, it's just that people keep mentioning crowdfunding over and over and over again but CBS won't do it for DS9 for the exact reasons JMS stated: it'd make them look like a bush league outfit if they went cap in hand to fans to restore part of the studio's biggest IP. It was done for the DS9 documentary, which is where people are getting a bit over-excited re: crowdfunding, but that was an indie production and had nothing to do with Paramount or CBS at the corporate level.

[chip75]

All we need is a monkey with three arms, then it can keep hold of the jar and reach inside for that sweet, sweet, nut.

[CouncilSpectre]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Right, it's just that people keep mentioning crowdfunding over and over and over again but CBS won't do it for DS9 for the exact reasons JMS stated: it'd make them look like a bush league outfit if they went cap in hand to fans to restore part of the studio's biggest IP. It was done for the DS9 documentary, which is where people are getting a bit over-excited re: crowdfunding, but that was an indie production and had nothing to do with Paramount or CBS at the corporate level.

Don't disagree with you at all Geoff. Crowdfunding a remaster is never going to happen, not for Star Trek, and not for any other AAA title.

The DS9 doc was an independent production that only got made because it was Ira, and therefore almost an inside job anyway. Plus, CBS whilst not being involved directly, would no doubt be privvy to any learning that occurred during the remastering of the bits that they did do, particularly any CGI challenges.

The chances of anyone else getting the same access to materials that Ira did, none.

As I said, we're in for a long wait, but I do think we'll get there eventually.

[KiLLPaTRiCK]

Any chance one of these bigs: Disney+, Netflix, Amazon, HBO Max or Peacock will pay for DS9 and VGR? So they could ad these series to theirs programs.?

[malcy30]

Originally Posted by KiLLPaTRiCK

Any chance one of these bigs: Disney+, Netflix, Amazon, HBO Max or Peacock will pay for DS9 and VGR? So they could add these series to their programs.?

Are you serious or having a laugh

Disney+ = Disney
HBO Max = Warner
Peacock = Comcast NBC Universal

No way on earth would CBS Paramount hand over their most famous and lucrative franchise to their biggest rivals !!!!

Netflix have already seemingly declined paying to upgrade SD to HD as they did not see subscribers rise when TNG was upgraded so SD considered good enough for less popular shows.

Amazon don't have a look in as Netflix have a long term deal for the old Star Trek shows.

Only hope would be if they see a value in a upgrade for CBS All Access as an exclusive assuming their deal with Netflix allows this and that they would add enough new subscribers to make it economically viable.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by KiLLPaTRiCK

Any chance one of these bigs: Disney+, Netflix, Amazon, HBO Max or Peacock will pay for DS9 and VGR? So they could ad these series to theirs programs.?

Very little, Netflix seem to have soured on Trek (after paying for DISCO's first season) and CBS have their own streaming service, so syndication would be the only revenue, they licence out to Amazon, Netflix et cetera, but you'd need a serious investment and some sort of exclusivity to get them to fork out the cash and like it's been mentioned they already have the content on their services.

[CouncilSpectre]

Originally Posted by malcy30

Only hope would be if they see a value in a upgrade for CBS All Access as an exclusive assuming their deal with Netflix allows this and that they would add enough new subscribers to make it economically viable.

Think the answer to both assumptions is probably no sadly.

Until the cost of remastering it comes (way) down then it's unlikely that anything else will happen. TNG demonstrably proved that physical sales won't finance it. The Netflix situation has proven that streaming won't finance it. We already know that the film elements, digital FX files, editing logs etc are safely stored away so there's no compulsion to "do it while they can", and there's no real tie-in benefits either.

Ironically, it might be the 24th century before it's economically viable.....

[KiLLPaTRiCK]

I was just thinking that one season of Discovery, Picard or that new Pike series is so expensive that it would almost foot the bill for seven seasons of DS9 or VGR. Why wouldn't you want that much content? Heck make it 4K and 1:1.78.

[CouncilSpectre]

Originally Posted by KiLLPaTRiCK

I was just thinking that one season of Discovery, Picard or that new Pike series is so expensive that it would almost foot the bill for seven seasons of DS9 or VGR. Why wouldn't you want that much content? Heck make it 4K and 1:1.78.

I think the underlying problem is that for 99.99% of folks, SD is "good enough".

[malcy30]

Originally Posted by KiLLPaTRiCK

I was just thinking that one season of Discovery, Picard or that new Pike series is so expensive that it would almost foot the bill for seven seasons of DS9 or VGR. Why wouldn't you want that much content? Heck make it 4K and 1:1.78.

Those are new content so many more people want to watch.

Originally Posted by CouncilSpectre

I think the underlying problem is that for 99.99% of folks, SD is "good enough".

Exactly how Netflix feel and obviously what their subscribers think. Look at the number of people who still watch new TV shows in SD because they won't pay for HD channels let alone 4K compared to those with 4K TV sets.

[CouncilSpectre]

Originally Posted by malcy30

Exactly how Netflix feel and obviously what their subscribers think. Look at the number of people who still watch new TV shows in SD because they won't pay for HD channels let alone 4K compared to those with 4K TV sets.

Must admit, I do find the whole issue of adoption rates of new media fascinating.

The jump from VHS to DVD was so vast in terms of quality that every man and his dog jumped on board (relatively) quickly. The move to high definition and blu ray though has been a much longer transition, that we're still in the middle of!

With the arrival of UHD/4K, that means that the bulk of the viewing masses are now two generations behind - it's like the HD/blu ray era still being dominated by VHS sales!

I think our current predicament is a bit of a double-edged sword - physical media is almost certainly in the twilight of its lifetime, certainly in terms of the mass popularity that VHS and DVD have enjoyed for the past three decades. However, if that is the case, then we're fortunate that we're only just getting to that stage now - Probably 90% of the films I'd ever want, I now have in a physical high-definition package. Thank f*** it's dying now and not back in the VHS era!

But, before it does die completely, it would be nice if those properties that don't have decent releases, could get them. Plus, that remaining 10% of stuff I wish they'd release AT ALL!

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by KiLLPaTRiCK

Heck make it 4K and 1:1.78.

I'm glad TNG was restored at 4:3, but given the revelations and proof of the eye from what was scanned for the documentary, I'd very much like DS9 in 16:9. Maybe the first couple of seasons will need more of an X-Files style selective opening up and cropping, but IMHO that'd be worth it for consistency (even then, the clips we have from Emissary show a nice opening up with minimal cropping top and bottom, probably just cropping the TV overscan safe area).

Remastered "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" Footage - "What We Left Behind" Documentary - YouTube

[LeftHandedGuitarist]

Absolutely, DS9 was a revelation in 16:9 in the documentary and a really pleasant surprise that it was (mostly) framed to allow for it. That's how I would want it.

[LMFAObros]

Originally Posted by LeftHandedGuitarist

Absolutely, DS9 was a revelation in 16:9 in the documentary and a really pleasant surprise that it was (mostly) framed to allow for it. That's how I would want it.

I think we may have a slim chance that CBS will see the worth in remastering the series in 16x9 to use in syndication, for Netflix and CBS All Access and a BD release as the show in widescreen will please the normies and studio execs who despise black bars on their screens. Voyager I don't see having any chance or getting a remaster as it is even more F/X heavy and has less fans.

[calmblueocean81]

Originally Posted by KiLLPaTRiCK

I was just thinking that one season of Discovery, Picard or that new Pike series is so expensive that it would almost foot the bill for seven seasons of DS9 or VGR. Why wouldn't you want that much content? Heck make it 4K and 1:1.78.

Its definitely all about the new content in order to get new subscribers. One approach that a streamer like Netflix seems to operate under is: they would rather regularly flood their service with wave after wave of new shows, instead of continuing to renew already existing shows past 2 or 3 seasons. I think their mind-set is that existing subscribers will continue to pay monthly (even if a good show gets cancelled) where as a brand new show might bring in new subscribers.
There are exceptions to this, with shows like Stranger Things that have exploded into the world-wide consciousness.

But to bring it back around to cost, I do die a little inside when I see the staggering amount of money that CBS is spending on shows like Discovery and Picard (around 8 mil per episode) and yet, in my humble opinion the shows are both embarrassingly awful in comparison to older Trek.

The sad reality is that HD versions of old Trek shows are not going to get the people flocking to CBS All Access like a shiny new will. Even if that shiny new show is dreck

[Geoff D]

Absolutely right re: new content. The reason why Netflix have a gigantic mountain of debt is because they're paying so much for new stuff, the thinking being that you have to keep cranking it out to keep people subscribing. It's not like syndicated TV in the old days where you could make millions from selling a package of episodes just to fill the airwaves that people have seen umpteen times, people don't really GAF about old stuff any more when it comes to streaming unless it's easy-watching mainstream fayre like Friends or The Office. And the paradigm of making millions by selling such popular content to other streaming platforms - which is what actually paid for the TNG remaster - has shifted anyway because so many studios have their own OTT platforms now, you've got no-one to 'sell' to.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Absolutely right re: new content. The reason why Netflix have a gigantic mountain of debt is because they're paying so much for new stuff, the thinking being that you have to keep cranking it out to keep people subscribing. It's not like syndicated TV in the old days where you could make millions from selling a package of episodes just to fill the airwaves that people have seen umpteen times, people don't really GAF about old stuff any more when it comes to streaming unless it's easy-watching mainstream fayre like Friends or The Office. And the paradigm of making millions by selling such popular content to other streaming platforms - which is what actually paid for the TNG remaster - has shifted anyway because so many studios have their own OTT platforms now, you've got no-one to 'sell' to.

It's usually around season three or four that normal TV's shows get much more expensive to produce as cast costs start to mount up, so it's generally surprising to see things like The Big Bang Theory run for so long unless it's still pulling in advertising* (which it was). Studios have a history of canning popular shows because they know that they're getting diminishing returns for their cast salaries and they have enough content to put into syndication.

So Netflix are knocking out a couple of seasons and cancelling before things get too expensive and they can start something from scratch, I doubt Stranger Things will last much longer.

*Off topic, but I hadn't realized that Pierce Brosnan's middle two 007 movies had their production budgets paid for in product placements (not sure about the other two).

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by chip75

It's usually around season three or four that normal TV's shows get much more expensive to produce as cast costs start to mount up, so it's generally surprising to see things like The Big Bang Theory run for so long unless it's still pulling in advertising* (which it was). Studios have a history of canning popular shows because they know that they're getting diminishing returns for their cast salaries and they have enough content to put into syndication.

So Netflix are knocking out a couple of seasons and cancelling before things get too expensive and they can start something from scratch, I doubt Stranger Things will last much longer.

*Off topic, but I hadn't realized that Pierce Brosnan's middle two 007 movies had their production budgets paid for in product placements (not sure about the other two).

Even so, the behind-the-camera talent that they court also includes some pretty big names (like David Fincher on Mindhunter) who won't have come cheap, and Netflix' insistence on stuff being shot to 4K (minimum) and finished to 4K inc VFX also pushes the price up, even for those 'one and done' series. Not everything is two people in a room either, Altered Carbon was estimated to have cost $7M an episode for its first season which means it came to $70M at the minimum.

[chip75]

Not sure how hands-on Netflix are, but they seem to be pretty open to ideas, Fincher is obviously a draw for us lot, Netflix may have been a draw to him as well, but he's generally worth every penny.

I don't really mind a few seasons of a show as long as it's complete, Mindhunter wasn't renewed (not sure how that ends?), other things like Santa Clarita Diet was axed on a cliffhanger-ish ending.

But with Netflix analytics, there's always a chance of something getting another season a few years down the line. My main gripe is that they're a bit short on family entertainment and studios use them as a dumping ground for their garbage (but I guess new content is new content).