The Shining 4K UHD (1980)

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I doubt they physically cut the OG mag tracks while the US version would continue to remain in circulation (not sure you're saying that but I'll say it anyway) but yeah, it also helped that the movie was cut A/B in visual terms because when doing the shorter version they could unpick all the dissolves and whatnot, they could create pre-print elements for the shorter cut that weren't destructive to the OG version.

Would there ever be a case when A/B editing shouldn’t be used? From what I understand, the purpose of A/B editing is to eliminate ugly spices when the film runs through a projector. Wouldn’t you always want to eliminate ugly splices?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Would there ever be a case when A/B editing shouldn’t be used? From what I understand, the purpose of A/B editing is to eliminate ugly spices when the film runs through a projector. Wouldn’t you always want to eliminate ugly splices?

If the frame lines/ugly splices are not seen when the movie is run in a projektor then no need to A/B roll it in that respect. Some formats have the frames literally edge to edge like 16mm or 65mm which is why most such shows are cut that way, and some variants of 35mm leave you no room either e.g. 2-perf Techniscope (which didn't just A/B roll the negative but also left extra frames at the top and tail of every single cut in the film, so when you're printing or transferring from the negative you have to make sure to discard the extra frames where the ugly physical splice occurs).

But regular 35 shot out to the Academy sound offset gives you plenty of room top and bottom even when lining up 1.37 (fig. B below), never mind the further matted 1.85 (fig. C). Even the projekted area of anamorphic (fig. D) was cinched in slightly over the years to cover up the splices.



BUT several movies shot to Academy 35 still used an A/B roll edit not because of the ugly splices but because it meant that you could do fades and dissolves using first generation negative instead of having them printed optically. This was a higher quality way of doing things so it's no wonder SK used it on The Shinning. (Hell, he even had them redo the optical titles for some home video transfers e.g. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post16989968)

[waxHead]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

To be honest, I don't really know which version I prefer. I don't watch this film often enough.

[KubrickKurasawa]

Everything is just one BIG conspiracy theory and you're living it!

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by KevinStriker

One I always cite is Tony showing Danny the vision of blood, and once the blood splashes over the camera lens and into a black screen, we get a hard cut to CLOSING DAY

I agree that the cut itself works really well, but I think the loss of the scene with the Pediatrician is regrettable.

Chris

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

If the frame lines/ugly splices are not seen when the movie is run in a projektor then no need to A/B roll it in that respect. Some formats have the frames literally edge to edge like 16mm or 65mm which is why most such shows are cut that way, and some variants of 35mm leave you no room either e.g. 2-perf Techniscope (which didn't just A/B roll the negative but also left extra frames at the top and tail of every single cut in the film, so when you're printing or transferring from the negative you have to make sure to discard the extra frames where the ugly physical splice occurs).

[Show spoiler]

But regular 35 shot out to the Academy sound offset gives you plenty of room top and bottom even when lining up 1.37 (fig. B below), never mind the further matted 1.85 (fig. C). Even the projekted area of anamorphic (fig. D) was cinched in slightly over the years to cover up the splices.



BUT several movies shot to Academy 35 still used an A/B roll edit not because of the ugly splices but because it meant that you could do fades and dissolves using first generation negative instead of having them printed optically. This was a higher quality way of doing things so it's no wonder SK used it on The Shinning. (Hell, he even had them redo the optical titles for some home video transfers e.g. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post16989968)

*cough*cough*germanreleaseofdon'ttortureaduckling* cough*



Chris

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

*cough*cough*germanreleaseofdon'ttortureaduckling* cough*



Chris

You'll have to enlighten me as I'm too lazy to search: is that actually what happened to that release?

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

You'll have to enlighten me as I'm too lazy to search: is that actually what happened to that release?

The German Blu-ray left all the extra frame "handles" from the 2-perf negative scan in at every edit point, and they had to resync the sound shot-by-shot to compensate, but the company behind the "restoration" still stood by their work and insisted they were correct and all previous versions of DON'T TORTURE A DUCKLING were wrong! They even suggested that the film didn't have a workprint and was edited directly on the negative, and made some other rather dubious claims as well (i.e., attributing negative damage to the film having been edited by a woman and her "long fingernails" having caused the damage).

When Arrow later released their own Blu-ray based off the same German master, they re-conformed it and removed all the extraneous frames at every edit, so their release is correct.

Chris

[Geoff D]

Jesus Christ.

[KevinStriker]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

I agree that the cut itself works really well, but I think the loss of the scene with the Pediatrician is regrettable.

Chris

I do prefer the longer version and finds many of the edits in the international cut distracting, but I want to give credit where there are a couple elegantly done trims.

[KevinStriker]

So this image is doing the rounds today, lmao

[Show spoiler]

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by KevinStriker

So this image is doing the rounds today, lmao

[Show spoiler]

People who've only seen the European cut won't get it

Chris

[WITCHCULT]

Heads up, this one is $9.99 on Amazon today. Rarely goes on sale, finally picked it up.

[KubrickKurasawa]

Originally Posted by WITCHCULT

Heads up, this one is $9.99 on Amazon today. Rarely goes on sale, finally picked it up.

Yes, it's still there. Too bad I bought this almost 3 years ago for 12.99 Cheaper than a bottle of Jack Daniels.

[JurassicBD]

Originally Posted by KubrickKurasawa

Yes, it's still there. Too bad I bought this almost 3 years ago for 12.99 Cheaper than a bottle of Jack Daniels.

The ones amazon is shipping now no longer include digital or a slip, so $3 more is an even better deal than their current sale, if you bought early enough to get one or both. Even if you don't value either, each is worth more than $3 resell.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

some variants of 35mm leave you no room either e.g. 2-perf Techniscope (which didn't just A/B roll the negative but also left extra frames at the top and tail of every single cut in the film, so when you're printing or transferring from the negative you have to make sure to discard the extra frames where the ugly physical splice occurs).

Forgive the random question, but what is it about 2-perf Techniscope and not other formats that required leaving extra frames at the top and tail of every cut?

[Noremac Mij]

EU cut is shit. It shouldn’t exist.

[Cherokee Jack]

Originally Posted by KevinStriker

One I always cite is Tony showing Danny the vision of blood, and once the blood splashes over the camera lens and into a black screen, we get a hard cut to CLOSING DAY

That transition is brilliant and the doctor scene reveals far too much, far too early. Remove only it and a good deal of Hallorann’s journey and you probably have a good middle ground between the two existing cuts.

Originally Posted by Noremac Mij

EU cut is shit. It shouldn’t exist.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Forgive the random question, but what is it about 2-perf Techniscope and not other formats that required leaving extra frames at the top and tail of every cut?

As the 2-perf frames are directly atop each other there’s no way to cover up or crop out the splices as with other formats. The physical editing is done using these extra frames on the OG negative, so when they run off an IP or separations etc they have to basically keep stopping the printing before the physical splice appears, wind the negative on to the next frame after the splice, then resume printing. If you think about it, this ‘jumps over’ the edit point so that no such artefacts are visible. And you’re not losing any frames that were meant to be seen, the additional handles are there solely for this purpose. (65mm had similar issues with the proximity of frames, RAH noted that My Fair Lady had originally been cut in this ‘Techniscope’ way.)

This means that doing a home video transfer of the negative would also need similar diligence applied as the extra frames would be present, so the film would need to be digitally conformed using a reference source.

[KubrickKurasawa]

Originally Posted by JurassicBD

The ones amazon is shipping now no longer include digital or a slip, so $3 more is an even better deal than their current sale, if you bought early enough to get one or both. Even if you don't value either, each is worth more than $3 resell.

Yeah, I usually buy on Black Fridays or Holidays. Back then yes you got a Slip and Digital Code. I have Amazon Prime but there never seems to be a "great" deal on something I want come Prime Day. Maybe 2 things this year, and I had to pass because it's just an average good sale. Oh and Cyber Monday I usually have some better luck there that day too. Must be competition is super tight on those days and Prime Day(s) sales they compete with themselves so nothing too spectacular for me at least. 2 bad about slips not lasting too long or steelbooks sometimes but that's how 4K goes...