Commentary from the Insiders Thread

[BTBuck1]

David,

I have been reading your reviews for many many months now.
I initially thought by the way you worded things that you were totally "Pro-HDDVD" but then when I saw Chad's reviews, I sorta felt like he was more or less the one "in charge" of the spot, and his overwhelming preference for blu-ray led me to believe there would be no way he'd have someone biased against BD on his site. (I don't know who's site it is/was/ etc. was just an assumption).
Well then I also saw you register here a while back, and you made some posts, I figured based off your posts...and the brotherly fashion in which you and Chad (a known BD-supporter) interacted, I thought: "he's pretty neutral".

BUT WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED TO YOU????

It isn't just me, you have turned this corner in your talk here where you come off with the everything is peaches & cream if it's HDDVD related, but it's doom & gloom if it's BD related.

I've pretty much thrown you into the back of my mind (for now) as someone I consider biased, and rooting for the wrong team.

As an owner of Both formats, with 2 players of each, and almost 170 titles combined I can tell you A) Paramount is by far one of the weaker studios, B) Blu-ray PQ far surpasses HDDVD on a regular bases, and C) Don't even try for a second that "Dolby Digital + is good enough, Amir B.S." here, it won't fly.

I'd be lieing if I said your posts here weren't aggravating me a bit lately. Because they share an oddly familiar stance to the troll fodder I've had to swim through at AVS & here now for over a year now.

[frank_t]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well I believe that you told me in a PM, that “someone from Cinram contacted you earlier today and congratulated you on the accuracy of what you have posted at AVS.”

Isn’t that what you said ?
Is that correct…………word for word ?

So I would suggest you ask him who Dominick Dallaverde is.
And in regards to Cinram in general…….oh, how shall I word this, I think it would be accurate to say that Cinram are as Blu friendly as a “neutral” Toshiba dealer we all know and love that sells both HD DVD and Blu-ray players.

Did you get the tone of my post?

Penton -

I love reading your posts As the red desperation rises, it seems more and more of them come to blu-ray.com to clog up our threads with crap. oh well. won't be that way forever. it's a blu-world! (say, wasn't that moody blues song?)

[ps3andlovinit]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I don’t buy it.

Thank you.There are a few more on this forum doing the same dog and pony show. I'd say you have about a 98% chance of not having to apologize.

[David Vaughn]

Originally Posted by David Forbes

He is considered one at AVS. I'm a bit more skeptical of that designation being given to a journalist and not someone working in the industry. Paid, Talk, Penton, etc., have direct, firsthand knowledge of specific parts of the industry, and access to other information they may not work with directly.

David, however, I would consider an 'outsider" with contacts, the same as journalists in other industries. I doubt he will be considered an insider here.

That's not a knock, I just don't agree with the AVS decision to bestow insider status on someone not actually "inside" the industry.

David, I agree with you 100% and posted the exact same thing on AVS when my "insiders" status was granted, which I never asked for. I was approached and turned it down from a Moderator there because I didn't think I was an insider.

As for Penton...I will be sure to ask him, because I don't know who he is. But, Cinram is an "independent" replicator, are they not? Why do you say they have a bias? They make both HD DVD's and BD discs, right?

As for what you think of me personally, I really don't give a damn, but unlike you, I'm not hiding behind an alias and have treated others with respect.

Both sides of this situation have had spin and outright lies in their public statements, so I don't trust what either side is saying most of the time. So if someone in blu clothing says they are getting X yields, and I hear they are getting y yields, then I will call them on it. The same goes for the other side, but the yield numbers that they have talked about in public, I have been able to confirm in private, so there is no news there. Now, combo discs are a different matter entirely, and if I can get someone to get me the yields and I can confirm it with a second source, I will post it.

[David Vaughn]

Originally Posted by BTBuck1

David,

I have been reading your reviews for many many months now.
I initially thought by the way you worded things that you were totally "Pro-HDDVD" but then when I saw Chad's reviews, I sorta felt like he was more or less the one "in charge" of the spot, and his overwhelming preference for blu-ray led me to believe there would be no way he'd have someone biased against BD on his site. (I don't know who's site it is/was/ etc. was just an assumption).
Well then I also saw you register here a while back, and you made some posts, I figured based off your posts...and the brotherly fashion in which you and Chad (a known BD-supporter) interacted, I thought: "he's pretty neutral".

BUT WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED TO YOU????

It isn't just me, you have turned this corner in your talk here where you come off with the everything is peaches & cream if it's HDDVD related, but it's doom & gloom if it's BD related.

I've pretty much thrown you into the back of my mind (for now) as someone I consider biased, and rooting for the wrong team.

As an owner of Both formats, with 2 players of each, and almost 170 titles combined I can tell you A) Paramount is by far one of the weaker studios, B) Blu-ray PQ far surpasses HDDVD on a regular bases, and C) Don't even try for a second that "Dolby Digital + is good enough, Amir B.S." here, it won't fly.

I'd be lieing if I said your posts here weren't aggravating me a bit lately. Because they share an oddly familiar stance to the troll fodder I've had to swim through at AVS & here now for over a year now.

Everything is not peaches and cream with HD DVD...have you read my reviews this summer? Obviously not for you to say that. Wait until you read my HD DVD review of We Are Marshall on HD DVD to see my supposed "bias".

[David Vaughn]

Originally Posted by Proteus

I watched dual releases (aka The Departed, etc.) on both formats using the same exact set ups.

I can tell you, without any hesitation, that Blu-ray offers a superior product on all counts concerning PQ/AQ.

Let me understand you clearly here...are you saying that the PQ and AQ of the Departed is better on BD than on HD DVD?

[CAB]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

If future history shows. . .

I giggled.

[Rob Zuber]

Originally Posted by David Vaughn

David, I agree with you 100% and posted the exact same thing on AVS when my "insiders" status was granted, which I never asked for. I was approached and turned it down from a Moderator there because I didn't think I was an insider.

This is the second time you've posted this and I find it very humorous, as if AVS has forced it on you and you have no choice! I love this example today in the AVS insiders thread:

Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn

Software is driving the war now to a certain extent and hardware is taking the back seat. Ultimately, it may be dual format players that end up ruling the day!

There you are, in all your glory as an AVS insider, just commenting on issues of the day. How grand!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by David Vaughn

They make both HD DVD's and BD discs, right?

The Tivo dealer sells both HD DVD and Blu-ray players, right ?
I don't know if you're naive or the *sources* that you deal with are at the level of interns in these companies.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by David Vaughn

I'm not hiding behind an alias and have treated others with respect.

^
Seems like that's almost word for word what Amir said about paidgeek after he left AVMS.

[mfinochio]

Originally Posted by David Vaughn

As for what you think of me personally, I really don't give a damn, but unlike you, I'm not hiding behind an alias and have treated others with respect.

Weird how this come up all the time. Some people do not want people to know who they are for their reasons. I know their are people on both sides of this war that I would not want them knowing who I am if I was an insider. David, you just contradicted that sentence in the same very sentence, respect is earned not given my friend.
Michael

[jason_grumpy]

Originally Posted by David Vaughn

Not at all. But people on both sides of this don't want to admit to thier chosen formats shortcomings, neither is perfect.

David,

I respect your opinion on this, but I strongly disagree that we won't admit or discuss problems with BR. And thats the difference between HD-DVD folks and BR folks. We will admit our formats short comings, but we weigh it against the shortcomings of HD-DVD. If anything, some our shortcomings might be viewed in opposite light (glass is half full/empty approach).

1.) In some peoples opinions, BR launched as a rushed product and 'unfinished' as some would put it with Profile 1.0. These players will become obsolete as the format matures.
2.) Lacked full studio support at launch.
3.) Price of Players perceived as to high.
4.) Had a less than optimal launch with titles such as the Fifth Element and House of Flying daggers.
5.) Faulty chips resulted in softening of picture in first generation models, making the Fifth Element and House of Flying daggers look even worse.
6.) Main audience for now is those with PS3's.
7.) Lack of a mandatory cat5 port in Profile 1.0/1.1 players.
8.) Copy protections such as BD+ and ROM-MARK are still forth coming.
9.) BD-J is claimed to be hard to program for.
10.) Disc Cost / Yields
11.) Lack of Extra's / PiP

Did I miss any?

I had written a rather lengthy retort, but I'll refrain. Instead I'll summarize.
1.)1st Gen players have issues on both sides of the fence. BR in particular was rushed. We admit it, but this is to be expected. DVD9 was non-playable with early models as well.
2.) Some of these issues focused as format problems, were really studio problems. Those studios have sense made amends, with one title re-release and now consistent transfer quality. Neutral Studios and HD-DVD now deliver the most inconsistent quality. I can pre-order Sony and Disney titles without doubt, I couldn't do the same with Warner/Paramount and if i was HD-DVD Universal. Fox is yet to be determined, but news of AVC and BD50's being used raises my expectations.
3.) Copy protection is not bad. Speaking as a former pirate in the BBS days, I can discuss how far the rabbit hole goes, but that's a whole new topic line.
3.) Half of America does not have broadband. More than half don't know what Cat5/Ethernet is. Imagine their dismay as extra's are online and they have dialup, or worse no connection at all.
4.) Extra's are a studio problem -- not a format problem. PiP is regarded as a gimmick that most people will never use.
5.) Cheap != Quality. I'm glad HD-DVD is finally getting a high quality non Toshiba player. Good for them if you don't look at the almighty cost.
6.) Java being hard to program for is a myth. This one is obviously MS bias against Sun. Anyone in the Information Technology field will tell you that. Think of how difficult it is with each Java based paged or program you use.

[jason_grumpy]

Originally Posted by MatrixS2000

Thanks, now all we need to know was how full the discs were.

Seems odd to me that if yields where so low, that they would "waste" discs unnecessarily don't you think? Surely if the content of both discs would fit on one, they would have put all the content on one disc to "save" the few remaining BDs available to them....

Now if yields were fine, then hey, why not give a second disc for the "value" feeling a customer would get.

MI3 was 2 BD-25, Dreamgirls 1 BD50 1 BD25, WTC was both 50s

MI3 - 23,968,278,600 bytes used. 95.87% Filled

I don't have the bytecount for WTC or Dreamgirls. If someone has them I can calculate.

[WickyWoo]

I'm not hiding behind an alias and have treated others with respect.

When you work at a major studio, and don't moonlight in the propoganda office, you need to use an alias because you are not authorized to speak for your company, only the PR office is. While you may get permission to pass on information, you are not able to identify yourself.

Suffice to say, Penton and PG have proven they work where they say they work, and stooping to attacking them on the basis of alias is not only a major FUD tactic, but completely irrelevant, and designed to try to put doubt on what they say for no good reason. Let's put it this way, all the right people know who they are, Amir knows who they are, and so should you,being in the spot you're in. Because if you did know, you wouldn't be talking smack. Amir does it because he's an ass and has proven time and again he'll take the cheap shot where he can get it, because he doesn't have anything else.

PG and Penton have earned our trust and respect through months of reliable information, and thoughtful analysis. You come in here with doomsday scenarios based on questionable, mostly anonymous sources, and spout HD DVD talking points, and do you really think people are going to respect you? Too many people left AVS for here to get AWAY from that stuff, and talking about how fair and neutral you are, well around here that just means you're an HD DVD fan trying to play double agent 9 times out of 10.

So can you see why a lot of people are not that willing to give you benefit of the doubt? I realize you're feeling like you're ganged up on right now, and that's because you are being, but that's to be expected when you entire hostile territory. I commend you on keeping it together so far, and challenging people to go out and do research and think the problem through objectively. Let's not lose that now

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by David Vaughn

As for Penton...I will be sure to ask him, because I don't know who he is. But, Cinram is an "independent" replicator, are they not? Why do you say they have a bias? They make both HD DVD's and BD discs, right?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Cinram absorbed WAMO in 2004 and have been working closely with Warner to develop Total HD.

They may be "neutral" from a format sense, but I wouldn't consider them unbiased from a manufacturing perspective.

Would you think they can convince studios to take on the even lower yield Total HD if they go around promoting positive BD yields?

Gary

[MatrixS2000]

Originally Posted by David Vaughn

As for what you think of me personally, I really don't give a damn, but unlike you, I'm not hiding behind an alias and have treated others with respect.

Not only is that a shot at PM I believe, but let me remind you of this:

Originally Posted by David Vaughn

Matrix,

I don't know if you realize it or not, but you are coming across as bad as a lot of HD DVD "fanboys" over at AVS come across in some of their posts.

Guess I am nobody.....

[jason_grumpy]

Originally Posted by frank_t

Penton -

I love reading your posts As the red desperation rises, it seems more and more of them come to blu-ray.com to clog up our threads with crap. oh well. won't be that way forever. it's a blu-world! (say, wasn't that moody blues song?)

That was a Moody Blues song off "The Present". A vastly underrated album they released. I actually enjoyed a great many of their songs on it. Not in the same league as their best stuff like On the Threshold of a Dream, but still worth a listen.

[MatrixS2000]

Originally Posted by jason_grumpy

MI3 - 23,968,278,600 bytes used. 95.87% Filled

Thanks and interestingly enough over the 23GB "problem" amount.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by David Vaughn, movie reviewer/reporter
I'm not hiding behind an alias and have treated others with respect.

Sir,
Your “disrespect” to others on this forum lies not in personal insults but in irresponsible journalism (the yield thing), which may be intentional (Wolf in Sheep’s clothing) or now on second thought, simply sophomoric (after your last question to me on Cinram) due to a lack of experience or the dependence on sources that are either tainted or so far out of the loop that they don’t know what the hell is going on.

That’s where the disrespect lies. I can see it because I am an Insider rather than a juvenile reporter. The other people here have to work their way slowly through different statements piece by piece to get a handle on the validity of your figures and worse…. your hypothetical conclusions. My advice to them is just like a stated above read the last 100 or even 50 posts that you’ve made on the Insider’s Thread (or the companion copy cat thread)on AVMS and people here can form their own conclusions…..even without my insider knowledge.

You know, you almost remind me of those people that have something like diarrhea and they search all over the internet (in your case, your real world *sources*), and they reach the conclusion after all their piece meal research and resultant theories that they have cancer of the intestine that is causing their diarrhea.

So, they run into their Doctor presenting all these sources to back-up their diagnosis and their Doc simply does a 10 min. history and physical with a few blood tests and tells the patient they are suffering from red ant Giardiasis……which he kinda figured after he spent 2-3 min. with the person. Think of me as the Doc.

Also, I have no idea whether you are…. or aren’t correct on the *effective* space of BD discs as you’ve presented because I don’t much care one way or the other (and I could find out with one phone call, if I cared to), but even if there is a temporary deficiency in that area, I would be much more inclined to believe Maxpower on our forum here, who has no such posting history as you do on AVMS........(because I have a damn good idea who one of your encoder sources is also.)

Don't believe me?
Ask Filmmixer on AVS whether or not I knew who he was and who he worked for probably months before anyone on AVMS did. Certainly long before he became an Insider there.

This is a very small business.

[Blu Titan]

I am not the type to kiss a**. However, I must say that since I have been visiting this forum, Penton Man has never misled anyone. I don't like to bother the insiders, because I am aware of the "intricacies" involved. In my experience when someone doesn’t just make a statement (valid or not), but continuously repeats the same argument, unseen interests are often at play.