Killers of the Flower Moon Censored in Australia

[Rick Grimes]

While this has been discussed in the Films Cut by Distributors forum, I feel it needs it’s own thread.

Killers of the Flower Moon originally got an MA15+ from the ACB.

https://www.classification.gov.au/ti...rs-flower-moon

Paramount made 3 seconds of cuts to the DCP, removing some gory scenes (the “Strong Injury Detail”), to get an M rating.

https://www.classification.gov.au/ti...-flower-moon-0

From the BBFC website, the cuts made will have been to some of the following:

[Show spoiler]There is sight of dead bodies and blood in the aftermath of violence. There is gory detail of a crushed skull and a severed hand in the wake of an explosion. A man has a violent fit while foaming at the mouth, and a woman's body is callously dismembered during an autopsy.

I myself am boycotting viewing the film (although I had planned to see it in the cinema), until I can watch an uncut version.

[CelestialAgent]

I don’t support censorship, but missing one of the biggest films of the year by a master of the craft, a streaming film granted a wide theatrical release that’s designed for the big screen, over 3 seconds, feels like an overreaction - especially when it’s just the studio seeking a lower age rating than over the content.

[Hadaka_Korosu]

A damn shame. Will it be censored when it's released on Apple TV+ too?

[Gaffer]

Originally Posted by Hadaka_Korosu

A damn shame. Will it be censored when it's released on Apple TV+ too?

Not necessarily. It has been rated twice by the OFLC. Uncut MA, cut M. As its Apple who is streaming it after its theatrical run they may just revert to the same uncut version that will stream worldwide. If Paramount was releasing it on physical media sometime in the future then perhaps it might have remained cut seeing as the same studio cut the local versions of Instant Family and Bumblebee at the cinema to get a PG rating then released those same cut versions on disc.

[Alister_M]

Originally Posted by Gaffer

Not necessarily. It has been rated twice by the OFLC. Uncut MA, cut M. As its Apple who is streaming it after its theatrical run they may just revert to the same uncut version that will stream worldwide. If Paramount was releasing it on physical media sometime in the future then perhaps it might have remained cut seeing as the same studio cut the local versions of Instant Family and Bumblebee at the cinema to get a PG rating then released those same cut versions on disc.

i know in the case of Bumblebee they just ported the pre-cut UK version. If they'd cut it themselves in a different way, there might have actually been an uncut local 4K release due to the added expense of authoring a whole new disc.

Kilers of the Flower Moon appears to be uncut with the M rating in NZ btw, it was given that cert on the 7th of September.

[Rick Grimes]

Originally Posted by CelestialAgent

I don’t support censorship, but missing one of the biggest films of the year by a master of the craft, a streaming film granted a wide theatrical release that’s designed for the big screen, over 3 seconds, feels like an overreaction - especially when it’s just the studio seeking a lower age rating than over the content.

My boycott is based on principle, so, it is a sacrifice. I just know I won’t be able to enjoy the movie, as the censorship issue will always be in the back of my mind.
If it doesn’t get a 4K/BD release, I will source a bootleg Blu-Ray. I have a bad feeling the stream, in Australia, will be the cut version.

Although, I hope that Scorsese, who is a great believer in the preservation of film, has something organised with Criterion to get a physical release. I’m sure if Scorsese knew about the censorship he would be pissed.

Originally Posted by Alister_M

i know in the case of Bumblebee they just ported the pre-cut UK version. If they'd cut it themselves in a different way, there might have actually been an uncut local 4K release due to the added expense of authoring a whole new disc.

Kilers of the Flower Moon appears to be uncut with the M rating in NZ btw, it was given that cert on the 7th of September.

More power to NZ.

It seems that Australia is the only region to suffer from this bullshit censorship. And all to just get a better classification, on a movie meant for adults anyway. It’s fracking ridiculous.

[shireguy]

Originally Posted by Rick Grimes

My boycott is based on principle, so, it is a sacrifice. I just know I won’t be able to enjoy the movie, as the censorship issue will always be in the back of my mind.

but but but ... you wont 'know' where those 3 seconds have gone from

Go see it - otherwise you may not experience it on a large screen

[Hadaka_Korosu]

But imagine Alien was censored - specifically the chest bursting scene.

Imagine just a few seconds was censored from that to obscure its impact - what would be one of the most horrifying and iconic moments in cinema history. Imagine seeing that when it was first released but not realising you were actually watching a censored version of that scene. It could drastically alter your perception/experience of the film because that moment could've been flattened entirely with even just a few seconds cut from it. Others around the world would've gotten to experience it in its original uncensored form but you would've been robbed of that experience.

Don't forget 3 seconds is quite a lot of frames in film, around 72 frames.

I dont know. I kind of get what you're saying but also I don't want to be treated like a child and told which version of the film is suitable for me while other adult audiences get to experience it uncensored.

I'm still tempted to see it in cinemas purely because it's a new Scorsese film and any frames that he's responsible for (even though we'll be missing some now) are worth seeing on a big screen. But also, I want to vote with my money and I kind of want to vote against censorship by not purshasing a ticket. I'm definitely torn. Maybe I'll wait until I have enough points to score a free ticket or something. Or maybe I'll just wait to see if Apple TV+ have it uncensored.

[Aunt Peg]

Originally Posted by Hadaka_Korosu

But imagine Alien was censored - specifically the chest bursting scene.

Imagine just a few seconds was censored from that to obscure its impact - what would be one of the most horrifying and iconic moments in cinema history. Imagine seeing that when it was first released but not realising you were actually watching a censored version of that scene. It could drastically alter your perception/experience of the film because that moment could've been flattened entirely with even just a few seconds cut from it. Others around the world would've gotten to experience it in its original uncensored form but you would've been robbed of that experience.

Don't forget 3 seconds is quite a lot of frames in film, around 72 frames.

I dont know. I kind of get what you're saying but also I don't want to be treated like a child and told which version of the film is suitable for me while other adult audiences get to experience it uncensored.

I'm still tempted to see it in cinemas purely because it's a new Scorsese film and any frames that he's responsible for (even though we'll be missing some now) are worth seeing on a big screen. But also, I want to vote with my money and I kind of want to vote against censorship by not purshasing a ticket. I'm definitely torn. Maybe I'll wait until I have enough points to score a free ticket or something. Or maybe I'll just wait to see if Apple TV+ have it uncensored.

I saw Alien when it was first released in cinemas and the chest busting was largely missing. it began with John Hurt feeling strange and then the rest of case are holding him down on the table and then some small red thing zipping away.

A few months later I purchased a book in relation to Alien which was basically like a comic book but was made up stills from Alien instead of drawings.

I noticed that the chest busting in the book was way way more graphic that what I had seen.

In 1982 when video shops started to emerge I rented Alien to watch it again. To my surprise the chest busting seen was there is all its glory. Back then video covers had no censorship logos on them. That came in a year or two later - can't remember exactly. I think Fox just transferred the full cut of the film and never resubmitted the film at that stage. I'd wager that Alien didn't go back in for reclassification to quite sometime later.

[Rick Grimes]

Very interesting to note that Alien was censored in Australian for it’s theatrical run.
Even Star Wars was censored in Australia, to get an NRC (had to remove one scene or it would have got an M rating). But the VHS release in 1982 was PG and uncut.

https://www.refused-classification.c...ci-fi-fantasy/

Forcing Fox to make that cut is real interesting, since Raiders of the Lost Ark, 4 years later, has the trap with the knife in the head, arrows in the back guy and the infamous head exploding/head melting scenes… And it was NRC (I recall the movie poster and seeing it at the Oxley Drive-In, and then seeing the NRC rating on the VHS cover years later).

As a comparison to how the ACB can make that distinction between M and MA15+, I just watched Gladiator today. It has an M rating and there’s a bifurcation, decapitations and plenty other gore, yet it passes with an M rating; yet 23 years later the tools at the ACB take an issue with 3 seconds of gore in KOTFM. I swear they do this shit to justify their increasingly irrelevant jobs.

[hypnotoad8128]

Stupid Overreaction.

I don't like censorship, but it's three seconds, and on first viewing probably won't even know which is the affected scene. Go watch the film in the cinema like an adult. Proper theatrical releases of films with substance are becoming rare now and more people who don't see films like this at the cinema are just giving studios the ammunition they need not to release these kinds of films theatrically.

Besides, you'll regret not seeing it in a theatre later down the line

Originally Posted by Rick Grimes

While this has been discussed in the Films Cut by Distributors forum, I feel it needs it’s own thread.

Killers of the Flower Moon originally got an MA15+ from the ACB.

https://www.classification.gov.au/ti...rs-flower-moon

Paramount made 3 seconds of cuts to the DCP, removing some gory scenes (the “Strong Injury Detail”), to get an M rating.

https://www.classification.gov.au/ti...-flower-moon-0

From the BBFC website, the cuts made will have been to some of the following:

[Show spoiler]There is sight of dead bodies and blood in the aftermath of violence. There is gory detail of a crushed skull and a severed hand in the wake of an explosion. A man has a violent fit while foaming at the mouth, and a woman's body is callously dismembered during an autopsy.

I myself am boycotting viewing the film (although I had planned to see it in the cinema), until I can watch an uncut version.

[PT Ryan]

I think it’s less the fault of the Classification Board and more that the distributor is misguided enough to think that under 15s are going to be clamouring to see something like this at the cinema. Three-and-a-half-hour Very Serious Oscar bait isn’t going to pack the kids in, DiCaprio or not. It’s a movie made for adults, so why cut the film in the vain hope that kids can see it?

Hell, all that marketing money going into this film could be spent emphasising that this is a movie for grownups. I guess that’s beyond the marketing team’s imagination. Given what I’ve read about the premise, I’d have expected an MA at minimum, so I’ll pin this stupidity on the distributor. I’ll just watch it on Apple TV, where there’s no reason for it to play in a censored version, thanks.

[hypnotoad8128]

Stupid Overreaction.

I don't like censorship, but it's three seconds, and on first viewing probably won't even know which is the affected scene. Go watch the film in the cinema like an adult.

Proper theatrical releases of films with substance are becoming rare now and more people who don't see films like this at the cinema are just giving studios the ammunition they need not to release these kinds of films theatrically so they can push more mindless superhero trash, remakes, reboots, films with extraordinarily little substance or Barbie into cinemas by default.

They're practically doing that now. If it weren't for Oppenheimer and Killers, 2023 would be a write-off.

Besides, you'll regret not seeing it in a theatre later down the line.

Originally Posted by Rick Grimes

While this has been discussed in the Films Cut by Distributors forum, I feel it needs it’s own thread.

Killers of the Flower Moon originally got an MA15+ from the ACB.

https://www.classification.gov.au/ti...rs-flower-moon

Paramount made 3 seconds of cuts to the DCP, removing some gory scenes (the “Strong Injury Detail”), to get an M rating.

https://www.classification.gov.au/ti...-flower-moon-0

From the BBFC website, the cuts made will have been to some of the following:

[Show spoiler]There is sight of dead bodies and blood in the aftermath of violence. There is gory detail of a crushed skull and a severed hand in the wake of an explosion. A man has a violent fit while foaming at the mouth, and a woman's body is callously dismembered during an autopsy.

I myself am boycotting viewing the film (although I had planned to see it in the cinema), until I can watch an uncut version.

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by hypnotoad8128

If it weren't for Oppenheimer and Killers, 2023 would be a write-off.

Asteroid City, Past Lives, The Crime is Mine, Air, Biosphere, Aftersun, The Survival of Kindness, Limbo...

[Hadaka_Korosu]

Originally Posted by hypnotoad8128

Stupid Overreaction.

Go watch the film in the cinema like an adult.

Lol ok "like an adult". Keep telling yourself that while you go pay $25 for a movie that's been censored so you can watch a more child-friendly version of the film.

I won't regret not seeing it in a cinema. Would rather pay to go see an uncensored version of the Taylor Swift movie than seeing a censored version of anything else.

Not an overreaction at all. While youre content to pay to see films that have been modified to draw a wider audience, I would prefer to protest in favour of seeing the director's original uncut version that they had envisioned. The fact some Hollywood studio felt like making a quick buck by modifying the film for an M-rated theatrical release to allow younger audiences is kind of condenscending.

Have fun conforming. I'm happy to wait for an uncut bootleg or Apple release.

[Aunt Peg]

I am intending to go and see the Scorsese film despite the cuts mainly because I don't want to have to subscribe to Apple and I don't want to blind buy a Blu Ray for the film because I'm not a much of a Scorsese fan these last couple of decades.

I love his films up until and including Casino with the exception of Cape Fear. After Casino the only films I've liked have been Hugo, The Irishman and The Wolf of Wall Street.

If I like his latest and it is released OS on Blu Ray I'll buy it.

Finding the time to fit the film in is rather difficult at the moment. I'm about to start two film festivals (the Jewish and the British) and have lots going on in my life so I'm really stretched for time.

I never knew Stars Wars had been cut for an NRC rating. I do recall lots of R rated films for cut - it was either cut them or not screen them at all (Suspiria, Motel Hell, Dawn of the Dead, Pink Flamingos, etc).

The only other film apart from Alien being cut to ensure a lower classification that comes to mind is A Nightmare on Elm Street (1985). I think Mad Max 2 was another.

[Aunt Peg]

Originally Posted by koberulz

Asteroid City, Past Lives, The Crime is Mine, Air, Biosphere, Aftersun, The Survival of Kindness, Limbo...

Plus added to those is that we have film festivals running from February to November every year.

In Sydney during 2023 we started with the Mardi Gras, Europa, French, Fantastic, Czech, German, Sydney Film Festival, Iranian, Spanish, Taiwanese, Italian, Mardi Gras (they hold two each year), Underground, Irish, South African, Jewish, British. That's just off the top of my head - I know I am missing a few others.

The Antena documentary film festival has been pushed back to February next week (they are trying to raise funds to ensure it can be held).

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by Aunt Peg

Plus added to those is that we have film festivals running from February to November every year.

In Sydney during 2023 we started with the Mardi Gras, Europa, French, Fantastic, Czech, German, Sydney Film Festival, Iranian, Spanish, Taiwanese, Italian, Mardi Gras (they hold two each year), Underground, Irish, South African, Jewish, British. That's just off the top of my head - I know I am missing a few others.

The Antena documentary film festival has been pushed back to February next week (they are trying to raise funds to ensure it can be held).

Well, if we're including gimmicks...

Films I've seen in the theater this year:
Aftersun
North by Northwest
Strangers on a Train
A Clockwork Orange
Full Metal Jacket
Banshees of Inisherin
The Menu
John Wick: Chapter 4
Air
The Godfather
Decision to Leave
Broker
Triangle of Sadness
The Square
The Survival of Kindness
Alien
Aliens
Joker
The Dark Knight
The Wild Bunch
The Princess Bride
Freaks
Limbo
Barbie
The Grand Budapest Hotel
The Royal Tenenbaums
Mission: Impossible - Dead Reckoning Part One
Thelma & Louise
Valley Girl
Oppenheimer
Before Sunrise
Before Sunset
Past Lives
Asteroid City
Biosphere
E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial
The Good, the Bad & the Ugly
Mon Crime

[Iago119]

Originally Posted by PT Ryan

I think it’s less the fault of the Classification Board and more that the distributor is misguided enough to think that under 15s are going to be clamouring to see something like this at the cinema. Three-and-a-half-hour Very Serious Oscar bait isn’t going to pack the kids in, DiCaprio or not. It’s a movie made for adults, so why cut the film in the vain hope that kids can see it?

Hell, all that marketing money going into this film could be spent emphasising that this is a movie for grownups. I guess that’s beyond the marketing team’s imagination. Given what I’ve read about the premise, I’d have expected an MA at minimum, so I’ll pin this stupidity on the distributor. I’ll just watch it on Apple TV, where there’s no reason for it to play in a censored version, thanks.

I don't think DiCaprio is quite the draw for kids he once was. The fella is pushing 50.
In relation to the censorship, yes, it is not great that some seconds have been removed from the director's original version. It is after all a director's medium. But I don't plan on missing this one on the big screen. Everything about it ticks every box of what I would want to see in a film.

[Rick Grimes]

Originally Posted by Hadaka_Korosu

Lol ok "like an adult". Keep telling yourself that while you go pay $25 for a movie that's been censored so you can watch a more child-friendly version of the film.

I won't regret not seeing it in a cinema. Would rather pay to go see an uncensored version of the Taylor Swift movie than seeing a censored version of anything else.

Not an overreaction at all. While youre content to pay to see films that have been modified to draw a wider audience, I would prefer to protest in favour of seeing the director's original uncut version that they had envisioned. The fact some Hollywood studio felt like making a quick buck by modifying the film for an M-rated theatrical release to allow younger audiences is kind of condenscending.

Have fun conforming. I'm happy to wait for an uncut bootleg or Apple release.

I’m glad others get it. It’s the principle of the whole censorship issue.

I mentioned the censorship of KOTFM to my neighbour and he said “That’s not bad”, which started me on a diatribe about censorship in Australia, starting with The Walking Dead S1: All Region B copies have approximately 40 seconds of gore cut, due to the German FSK board refusing clarification, and the dizzy, EOne, made the cuts for the German market and released the censored version in every Region B country (when they could have done the cuts for German market and uncensored everywhere else). Ironically, when the FSK eventually gave the uncut an “18 “ rating, EOne released a “Special Uncut Edition” in Germany only.

TWD S1 Censorship Forum Link (First post includes link to Movie-Censorship.com with a breakdown of the cuts made): https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=219404

Only good thing to come out of The Walking Dead bullshit censorship was my decision to get a Region Free BD/DVD player.

Then I went on about Kill Bill and how no Unrated version exists outside of Japan (my purchase of a Region Free player also allowed me to import a Region 2 DVD of Kill Bill Vol.1 from Japan).

https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=1588

And with Kill Bill, not only are most of the Katana swordplay/Crazy 88 scenes in B&W, even that wasn’t enough to satisfy the MPAA. There are additional cuts made (no pun intended), and even the anime is censored,
PLUS I didn’t even realise that Sophie had

[Show spoiler]both her arms cut off.

, until I saw the Japanese version. In the R-rated it is unclear, as The Bride simply says “

[Show spoiler]Give me your other arm”

.

In the year 2000, I had heard about the B&W issue required for US audiences. I naively went to the theatre, thinking Australian audiences would get the uncut version, considering our R is akin to NC-17 anyway. When the B&W began, I booed and yelled “We paid for blood”. I would normally never yell in a crowded theatre, but I was pretty pissed off.

So, with all that context regarding my aversion to censorship in my personal history, although it may be only 3 seconds of censorship in KOTFM, I will wait to see it, at home if have to OR hope it may play some time in the near future uncut.
IF we do get the uncut version on Apple Plus, I may just pay for a month, watch Killers of the Flower Moon, and binge for a month, as I’ve always wanted to watch Greyhound, The Morning Show etc.).

As an adult, I feel an uncensored version of a film should be made available to the viewing public. It is theatrical blasphemy for a distributor to do what they have done. They shouldn’t have the power to decide to censor a film, just to get a more child friendly rating. F*ck you Paramount. F*ck you very much.