Blu-ray vs. Laserdisc DTS (Yes... Laserdisc)

[captainsolo]

LDs usually win out in any sound format due to using untouched or less manipulated audio mixes. This explains why even 384 kbp/s lossy Ac3 tracks from LD can outdo lossless later releases.
Older films-even classic titles in mono-can sound better due to a lack of noise filtering, EQ, and overzealous corrections being applied these days.

But in terms of DTS it's really dependent on the mix and how it was treated over time. A number of DTS LDs were released on DVD before they halved the bitrate. Many were reissues of titles that already had releases in ac3.

Unfortunately due the rarity and value I've only heard a few and own three. But I will admit after many, MANY comparisons across formats that I do give the slight nod to the DTS LDs for these three titles as just having extra potency and a slight bit more enjoyment.

Those are: The Shadow, Goldeneye and Tomorrow Never Dies. These are three of my favorite sounding films ever made, good demo titles and still sound great today-particularly the latter. Each has a BD release with lossless audio that seems relatively untouched yet when compared, the LD DTS simply sounds a tad better.

I've compared these against: DVD ac3, DVD DTS, LD ac3, LD PCM Dolby Surround and HDMA tracks from their respective BLu-ray releases. Heck I even compared to VHS hifi and the mono folddowns.

TND is the same mix on all releases but while clarity is gained going from 2.0 to 5,1 ac3, the DTS has an additional clarity to it that is hard to define. I think the reason the DTS audio sounds better is perhaps that the BD audio may have been slightly EQd or something but they are admittedly very close.

On the other hand Goldeneye is not the same on all releases-all 2.0 and 5.1 ac3 tracks on Laserdisc and the initial DVDs have a very heavy bass that magnifies into a super hot LFE track in the ac3 track. This is not on the LD DTS or any other release, but the LD DTS is noticeably clearer sounding and more balanced.

[CompleteCount]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

L
On the other hand Goldeneye is not the same on all releases-all 2.0 and 5.1 ac3 tracks on Laserdisc and the initial DVDs have a very heavy bass that magnifies into a super hot LFE track in the ac3 track. This is not on the LD DTS or any other release, but the LD DTS is noticeably clearer sounding and more balanced.

The LD of Goldeneye (which I bought when it was brand new and cost a princely sum) has bass which is really overbearing, and you can feel it in both your fillings and your colon. Whilst some might relish the prospect, it just sounds as though something wasn't quite right when they were transferring the stems.

My recommendation for BD arse-kicking audio is Alien Resurrection. The piece with the ship exploding mops the floor with any other incarnation.

[Xtempo]

Holy cow this thread is still going. I've had to get rid of all my DTS LaserDiscs and only keep Nightmare Before Christmas along with my other releases of Nightmare Before Christmas but having that setup was really nice though I never heard JP or Lost World any other way which was enjoyable at the time.

[oldgame]

I have The Crow (dts) and it sounds fantastic.

[HDTV1080P]

The only Laserdisc titles I have in my collection are titles that have not been released yet on 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray, Blu-ray 3D, standard Blu-ray, or DVD. The only exception to that rule is if only the Laserdisc version has the extended directors cut. Then the Laserdisc or DVD version is better since the entire extended movie exists.


There are many titles that were released on Laserdisc and DVD that well never see a Blu-ray version released. I also have some 1080i D-VHS titles. It happens with every format, when the new and improved format comes out certain older titles never make it to that new and improved optical format.

[stonesfan129]

Laserdisc DTS is 1.5Mbps. Blu-ray DTS-HD MA is lossless. Laserdisc is about as relevant today as cassettes are.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

Laserdisc DTS is 1.5Mbps. Blu-ray DTS-HD MA is lossless. Laserdisc is about as relevant today as cassettes are.

Most of the time Laserdisc has a better sound quality then the DVD format. When DVD first came out in 1997 for the first couple of years there was many single layer 4.7GB releases with some digital video artifacts and Laserdisc had a slight edge in picture quality for a very short period of time in 1997 and 1998. However as the studios moved to anamorphic widescreen dual layer 8.5GB movie releases, DVD clearly had a better picture then Laserdisc since the digital artifact issue at higher bit rates was very hard to see for most people. Plus DVD had native component video which was better then Laserdiscs native composite video.


Also Laserdiscs had 2.0 PCM studio master soundtracks and most of the time DVD would not use 2.0 PCM since it took up too much space on the disc. Both Laserdisc and DVD had lossy 5.1 DTS and Dolby Digital, however it was extremely rare for a DVD movie to get a 1.54 Mbps DTS soundtrack and instead received half the bit rate for DTS audio when compared to Laserdiscs full 1.54Mbps DTS soundtrack. When it comes to DTS soundtracks for 99% of the movies, Laserdisc sounded better then DVD.


Overall I and most consumers preferred DVD when compared to the Laserdisc format since overall DVD was a better quality format that had the potential to use high bit rate DTS and high bit rate NTSC video that out performed the Laserdisc format. That is why the 1978 Laserdisc format died around the year 2000, just 3 short years after the DVD format came out.


Yes of course 4K Blu-ray and standard Blu-ray has a much better picture and sound quality when compared to both DVD and Laserdisc. Lossless audio with 11.1 DTS X and 11.1 Dolby ATMOS on top of a 3840 x 2160P picture quality with HDR is the way to go.

[Pondosinatra]

Originally Posted by Xtempo

Holy cow this thread is still going. I've had to get rid of all my DTS LaserDiscs and only keep Nightmare Before Christmas along with my other releases of Nightmare Before Christmas but having that setup was really nice though I never heard JP or Lost World any other way which was enjoyable at the time.

Which is kind of annoying as has been mentioned previously there's a dedicated Laserdisc thread already.

[Jodi]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

dts-master audio obliterates dts on LD, sorry.

I have to agree! My Turbine Medien (German import) BD of Twister has 7.1 DTS HD MA peaking to very close to 8Mbps!

[Jodi]

Originally Posted by oldgame

I have The Crow (dts) and it sounds fantastic.

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by Jodi

I have to agree! My Turbine Medien (German import) BD of Twister has 7.1 DTS HD MA peaking to very close to 8Mbps!

Really?!

There comes a point where you have to point a finger at a woefully inefficient lossless encode. 8mbs for a 7.1 track seems somewhat excessive.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by 49218

Bitrate is not everything in audio. A farfield mix in lossy will always be superior to a nearfield remix in lossless.

There is no such thing as "farfield".

There's the cinema mix and the home video nearfield mix, and nearfield is standard for home video releases.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by 49218

Still stalking me?

Don't flatter yourself.

Farfield mixing is the technical term for mixing theatrical audio.

No. That term is not commonly used for the cinema mix.

There is no standard for nearfield remixing. It is just a practice (for low listening level).

Yes there is a standard. You're not mixing for lower listening level, but for homes rather than giant cinemas, which involves different output levels.

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

LDs usually win out in any sound format due to using untouched or less manipulated audio mixes. This explains why even 384 kbp/s lossy Ac3 tracks from LD can outdo lossless later releases.
Older films-even classic titles in mono-can sound better due to a lack of noise filtering, EQ, and overzealous corrections being applied these days.

But in terms of DTS it's really dependent on the mix and how it was treated over time. A number of DTS LDs were released on DVD before they halved the bitrate. Many were reissues of titles that already had releases in ac3.

Unfortunately due the rarity and value I've only heard a few and own three. But I will admit after many, MANY comparisons across formats that I do give the slight nod to the DTS LDs for these three titles as just having extra potency and a slight bit more enjoyment.

Those are: The Shadow, Goldeneye and Tomorrow Never Dies. These are three of my favorite sounding films ever made, good demo titles and still sound great today-particularly the latter. Each has a BD release with lossless audio that seems relatively untouched yet when compared, the LD DTS simply sounds a tad better.

I've compared these against: DVD ac3, DVD DTS, LD ac3, LD PCM Dolby Surround and HDMA tracks from their respective BLu-ray releases. Heck I even compared to VHS hifi and the mono folddowns.

TND is the same mix on all releases but while clarity is gained going from 2.0 to 5,1 ac3, the DTS has an additional clarity to it that is hard to define. I think the reason the DTS audio sounds better is perhaps that the BD audio may have been slightly EQd or something but they are admittedly very close.

On the other hand Goldeneye is not the same on all releases-all 2.0 and 5.1 ac3 tracks on Laserdisc and the initial DVDs have a very heavy bass that magnifies into a super hot LFE track in the ac3 track. This is not on the LD DTS or any other release, but the LD DTS is noticeably clearer sounding and more balanced.

My dad had Goldeneye on a VHS tape way back in the day and the audio mix on that definitely sounds FAR bassier than my Blu-ray. The scene where the airplane comes over the mountains just shook the whole house. My Blu-ray just doesn't have that "oomph." DVD is close but not quite there.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

My dad had Goldeneye on a VHS tape way back in the day and the audio mix on that definitely sounds FAR bassier than my Blu-ray. The scene where the airplane comes over the mountains just shook the whole house. My Blu-ray just doesn't have that "oomph." DVD is close but not quite there.

Those mixes are way too hot. I remember the DVD had the same overly bassy sound. It was obnoxious. The Blu-ray sounds great, much more balanced.

[captainsolo]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

My dad had Goldeneye on a VHS tape way back in the day and the audio mix on that definitely sounds FAR bassier than my Blu-ray. The scene where the airplane comes over the mountains just shook the whole house. My Blu-ray just doesn't have that "oomph." DVD is close but not quite there.

That's the original theatrical Dolby mix. For whatever reason a number of 90's Dolby mixes has more bass emphasis and sometimes if the film had DTS the DTS wouldn't have that. Goldeneye is the most extreme case of this I know of because the bass emphasis is so much that when this track first came to DVD some thought it was defective.

The 2.0 and 5.1 Dolby mix has this though the discrete makes it more pronounced. Thus the 2.0 is on VHS and LD, 5.1 ac3 on LD the THX DVD and SE DVD. The DTS Laserdisc doesn't have the bass emphasis but is better in other areas.

I jokingly refer to the theatrical bassy Dolby mix as the "Club Mix". The 2006 ultimate Edition was a new audio transfer in several codecs. The BD HDMA 5.1 sounds very good and nearly as good as the DTS LD 5.1. But only the original Dolby mix has that bassy feel.

[Zugzuk13]

Laserdisc DTS was groundbreaking back in the day, but Blu-ray took sound and picture quality to a whole new level. Still, there’s something special about those retro formats that will always hold a place in collectors' hearts!

[jddf]

Being a Laserdisc collector, I read that the same film soundtrack was duplicated on the discs. No sound remaster was done for home consumption, the same dynamics, levels and volume was rightfully duplicated in the discs.