BD vs HD DVD - different PQ due to preferences of Japanese vs American consumers?

[zombie]

I thought this was interesting:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8576053

the guy who told me about the dynamic range had actually nothing to gain telling me a lie .since he is an engeneer creating a certain player

he was a pretty old guy but a head engineer that i could read from his business card. he simply said to me that bitrate doesnt matter about how soft or strong a movie will look and that it is simply a matter of taste by the director. the reason i came to this is because i saw on the other side willy wonka chocolate factory from warner. so then i asked him why does narnia looks softer then willy wonka for example.

so then he said it depends on the dynamic range and not on the bitrate.

also he explain to me that japanese people like rather more a soft picture while western people like more a sharper contrast picture. so japanese people like more narnia pic quality then wonka quality.

I hope I'm not coming to wild conclusions here but is it possible that early BD releases were the result of Sony intentionally giving their discs a look that they felt would be pleasing to Japanese consumers while Toshiba aimed more for American consumers? The Japanese are gods when it comes to new technology so perhaps Sony thought they were doing the right thing. I don't want to sound like I'm helping to make excuses for BDs less than stellar launch but I'm curious if this social group preference is even partially responsible.

[JTK]

First I've ever heard of something like this...

[zombie]

Originally Posted by JTK

First I've ever heard of something like this...

Same here. I'm wondering if there's anything to it.

[Rob Tomlin]

Originally Posted by nyg

I thought this was interesting:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8576053



I hope I'm not coming to wild conclusions here but is it possible that early BD releases were the result of Sony intentionally giving their discs a look that they felt would be pleasing to Japanese consumers while Toshiba aimed more for American consumers? The Japanese are gods when it comes to new technology so perhaps Sony thought they were doing the right thing. I don't want to sound like I'm helping to make excuses for BDs less than stellar launch but I'm curious if this social group preference is even partially responsible.

Sorry, I gotta call BS on this one!

[zombie]

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

Sorry, I gotta call BS on this one!

Anything to back that up? I'm not saying I believe it either but the statement above has got me wondering if it's possible. Certainly companies cater differently to different markets. Heck when I was in Hawaii you could buy pizza at a McDonalds and Twix with pinneapple in it. You won't find those things here in Wisconsin.

[Rob Tomlin]

Originally Posted by nyg

Anything to back that up? I'm not saying I believe it either but the statement above has got me wondering if it's possible. Certainly companies cater differently to different markets. Heck when I was in Hawaii you could buy pizza at a McDonalds and Twix with pinneapple in it. You won't find those things here in Wisconsin.

That's a completely different kind of catering! Food vs video!

Frankly, I think this "excuse", if true, would do more harm to BD's reputation than if it isn't true. If true, it means that they intentionally softened the picture from what the original source looked like! Can they really be that idiotic?

This is a format for people who truly care about picture quality, one of their top priorities.....videophiles perhaps? Sony has to know this. And videophiles want these discs to be as close to transparent to the source as possible.

Intentionally softening the image simply defies logic to me. Even more so when you consider that the Sony encoders are notorious for the EE that they added to their SD DVD releases.....a sign that they wanted their DVD's to look "sharp".

[phloyd]

There are definite differences in the way that different cultures like to see things.

This is behind why Fuji film looks different from Kodak.

IIRC the Japanese like things to be a little blue looking and so their TVs are higher colour temp where the US tends to prefer D-line.

That said, I doubt that Sony made the discs soft on purpose.

I did once hear from a Fox employee that different studios also like different sharpness in their transfers and that Fox was typlically a little soft (which he didn't care for). He also said that Universal have the sharpest D5s in the industry. No mention of Sony in the conversation.

I will see him tomorrow again actually - see what I can find out about Fox Bluray plans

[Rob Tomlin]

Originally Posted by phloyd

...

I will see him tomorrow again actually - see what I can find out about Fox Bluray plans

Sounds good.

My prediction: Star Wars series on BD50 before the end of the year!

[zombie]

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

This is a format for people who truly care about picture quality, one of their top priorities.....videophiles perhaps? Sony has to know this. And videophiles want these discs to be as close to transparent to the source as possible.

You aren't suggesting there are no Japanese videophiles are you? Certainly they could prefer something different than you and I do.

[Rob Tomlin]

Originally Posted by nyg

You aren't suggesting there are no Japanese videophiles are you? Certainly they could prefer something different than you and I do.

No, they couldn't. A videophile is a videophile is a videophile. And a videophile wants a disc to be as transparent to the master as possible. Don't F with it!

[Rio]

I don't prefer softer image. I do like sharper but also natural image if it's not false one, like edge enhancement. Am I not a typical Japanese? One thing everytime I try when I face different display is, adjust the sharpness. Some of displays set too much edge enhance as a default setting and this makes picture quality much much worse if the original picture is fine.

And don't forget, there are people in Japan who think that best VC-1 titles are still look soft and noisy , also there are people working for crazy 8K camera and displays...

[zombie]

Originally Posted by Rio

And don't forget, there are people in Japan who think that best VC-1 titles are still look soft and noisy , also there are people working for crazy 8K camera and displays...

Good to hear that some in your culture think VC-1 is too soft. That's just too funny! Not that I don't agree in some cases, just considering this is Amir from Microsoft's pride and joy. Guess it's back to my last thought that Sony just botched their first BDs.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

Intentionally softening the image simply defies logic to me.

Routinely done when optimizing a transfer for interlaced display. Be it on a 480i CRT or a 1080i CRT, it HAS to be video filtered (softened) (or put in another way, not sharpened optimally for progressive display) otherwise the image will twitter and flicker like crazy on the interlaced CRT everytime there's enough detail and sharp edges on the scene. If the mastering facility is using 1080i CRTs to evaluate the transfer, they're doing it automatically!

Most 1080 captures i've seen look soft and out of focus compared to true 1080 quality images and they have to be sharpened to get them to look right.

[Rob Tomlin]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

Routinely done when optimizing a transfer for interlaced display. Be it on a 480i CRT or a 1080i CRT, it HAS to be video filtered (softened) (or put in another way, not sharpened optimally for progressive display) otherwise the image will twitter and flicker like crazy on the interlaced CRT everytime there's enough detail and sharp edges on the scene. If the mastering facility is using 1080i CRTs to evaluate the transfer, they're doing it automatically!

Most 1080 captures i've seen look soft and out of focus compared to true 1080 quality images and they have to be sharpened to get them to look right.

But that isn't the same thing as intentionally softening the picture for the mere purpose of making it look softer than it could or should compared to the source.

[Deciazulado]

You're absolutely right. I was just merely thinkng that what I posted could be a sort of "explanation" to this Japanese transfers softness "story"

My Japanese Laserdiscs are pretty sharp.