Double Bass and Riser?

[bacot11]

Well first off I just built my own sub riser , and I am trying to adjust my system accordingly. I usually have my front speaker crossover set up to 40hz and double bass is off automatically. However, I have recently changed the fronts to full band and the double bass option to on. I like the added bass response with the riser and double bass on, but it can be over powering. Should I keep the double bass and lower the sub gain or should I return to my original set up and increase the sub gain ? I adjust the gain on the receiver so its no big deal. I just wanted to get some opinions. Check my gear and tell me what you think. I will post new pics of the riser asap.

[Drew664]

Take yourself up on your own suggestion. Play with the sub's gain (this is extremely easy and quick to do), listen to a song which has bass and that you know well.

Do that first, which should only take about 10 minutes, and let us know the results.

[Big Daddy]

Double Bass is discussed in the sticky thread A Guide to Bass Management.

Manufacturers have different names for this option.

Double Bass On (Onkyo) = LFE + Main (Denon) = Both (Yamaha)

When you use these options, Bass management becomes enabled for Large (Full Band) speakers. The frequency below which the signals from the main speakers are sent to the subwoofer is set automatically in the Onkyo or can be changed to any number you like in Denon's implementation. Onkyo and Denon use Audyssey and this information is verified by Audyssey.

Double Bass or LFE+Main is an option that was created by AVR makers as a compromise to customers who were personally “offended” when their speakers were designated Small in the AVR's menu. In such modes, the mains run full-range AND the subwoofer is lowpassed at a specified frequency. So both the main speakers and the subwoofer are receiving bass signals. The problem is that in the overlap frequency region between the sub and the front speakers, the bass frequencies are doubled and tend to become bloated and boomy. In addition, front speakers cannot be moved to other spots in the room and when the bass frequencies are directed to both front speakers and the subwoofer(s), there may be some phase cancellation problem for some of these frequencies.

Using a separate subwoofer and sending all bass frequencies to it is beneficial. The proper way of distributing the bass sound across the room correctly is with more than one subwoofer. An even number of subwoofers, 2 or 4, is preferred.

[jomari]

Originally Posted by bacot11

Well first off I just built my own sub riser , and I am trying to adjust my system accordingly. I usually have my front speaker crossover set up to 40hz and double bass is off automatically. However, I have recently changed the fronts to full band and the double bass option to on. I like the added bass response with the riser and double bass on, but it can be over powering. Should I keep the double bass and lower the sub gain or should I return to my original set up and increase the sub gain ? I adjust the gain on the receiver so its no big deal. I just wanted to get some opinions. Check my gear and tell me what you think. I will post new pics of the riser asap.

ive seen big daddy has already explained the pros and cons of using 'double bass' et al. your perception of the room being 'better' is something that a lot of people experience, especially with the afterthought that 'more is better'. its not so in this case. its difficult enough to determine the best position of a subwoofer, what more with multiple sources of the same signal - thus causing cancellations, and/or unnecessary reinforcement of certain frequencies, bloating your room.

personally, id keep the said setup at the former, and work from that standpoint. ive also checked your current setup, and very impressive sub!

if i may make a suggestion? checking your current crossover point on the subwoofer, you have it set at 100 hz. id suggest to push it all the way up to its maximum (i saw it at 120hz is available), and letting the AVR do all the bass management, bypassing the subs crossover point. the lower end of the frequency response of the sony towers are at 40hz, id consider either 50/60hz, then work from there. the magic number we all consider is 80hz, but that is of course upon preference.

have you considered moving it towards where the current left speaker is? just an afterthought, and push the setup a tad to the right to accomodate both the left sub, tv stand, then right speaker. corners, albeit is considered the 'best' location of a single sub, can be too overwhelming at times, due to accumulation of certain LFE frequencies. moving it farther would give you a less 'boomy' sub, but a cleaner signal so to speak. i do see that the center speaker is wall mounted, thus highly unlikely you'd consider. but then again, it doesnt hurt to experiment.

[bacot11]

Thank you for your replys so far. I will return the system to my original setup tonight when I get home. I knew inside my ears that it was the better arrangement. I just wanted to make sure.

On a side note the sub actually has a switch that lets the receiver have complete control of the sub's crossover. So turning the crossover on the back actually does nothing. I need to get a picture of that and my riser. Thanks again.

[bacot11]

Well I adjusted everything and it sounds great. I also updated my gallery with some photos of my riser. I used mdf and some 2 x 4's to build the main structure, and some scrap wood to box in the base. I filled the base with polyfill to dampen the sound. It has improved the sound and at this moment in time my system is complete. Thanks for all the help!

[jomari]

great job on the riser, and im still trying to read the crossover bypass switch you took a new picture of, as long as its set to bypass the crossover settings in the sub, you should be just fine.

let us know if you needed any further assistance. you know where to find us.

[erict]

Originally Posted by jomari

great job on the riser, and im still trying to read the crossover bypass switch you took a new picture of, as long as its set to bypass the crossover settings in the sub, you should be just fine.

let us know if you needed any further assistance. you know where to find us.

I had asked the same question in one of his other post and bacot11 said this.....

I have the crossover set to 90 hz on the receiver and 100 hz on the sub itself. I could turn it up but it would do nothing. The sub has a switch that lets the receiver completely control the frequency response. Also I ran audessey with the crossover maxed as it says in the manual. Thanks for the help anyway.

[jomari]

then why not turn the crossover on the sub to its maximum then? albeit moot at this point, its just a matter of er... process for me. OCD at times.

[MADNOD]

once i get external amps i am planning to try to enable the "both" setting in my AVR, as per polk my towers are rated to 17 hz! ( 3 7" woofers in each with ports at the lower end of the towers)

not because i am not happy with my sub ( i love my sub), but because that should be interresting