Why is WB *STILL* releasing BDs with LOSSY Audio? - Blu-ray Forum

DaViD Boulet · 11-06-2009, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Just to play devil's advocate, how do you know it's no harder and no more expensive? If a DD track already exists for a catalog title and a lossless one does not, surely it's somewhat harder and more expensive, even if only slightly.

Where do "lossy" tracks come from?

They come from lossless PCM masters.

Therefore, for every lossy audio track out there, there's a linear PCM master that was used to make it also on the shelf.

It's as hard as pressing a button to have that LPCM master encoded in TrueHD or DTS-HD. It's even easier just to do stereo or mono LPCM on the BD... which is an option that's 100% legitimate.

retablo · 11-06-2009, 04:40 PM

Luckily, my hearing sucks, so I can't tell the difference between lossy & lossless. At least that's one thing I don't have to complain about.

doctorD · 11-06-2009, 05:11 PM

The thing I find interesting about their releases is there are times where it may be a toss up as to what a release will have. It does appear that all movies are getting lossless, but as mentioned some tv shows or movie animations that deserve lossless are getting lossy. Star Trek The Clone Wars Season 1 deserved a lossless track, but got lossy...where the movie version of The Clone Wars got lossless

Superman/Batman: Public Enemies was another title that deserved lossless but instead got lossy where Green Lantern First Flight got a lossless track(s).

It is what it is, but I do feel the OP's frustration and hope in the near future that Warners will just start releasing everything with at least one lossless track.

fatediesel · 11-06-2009, 05:21 PM

I'm pretty sure no Warner TV show has ever gotten lossless, which would explain why the Clone Wars movie got lossless while the TV show didn't. I don't understand why Warner refuses to use lossless on TV shows when it would help shows like Clone Wars, Chuck, Smallville, and Fringe which have a lot of action.

doctorD · 11-06-2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatediesel

I'm pretty sure no Warner TV show has ever gotten lossless, which would explain why the Clone Wars movie got lossless while the TV show didn't. I don't understand why Warner refuses to use lossless on TV shows when it would help shows like Clone Wars, Chuck, Smallville, and Fringe which have a lot of action.

Agreed! But the Superman/Batman: Public Enemies movie only getting lossy is puzzling.

Rik1138 · 11-06-2009, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatediesel

I'm pretty sure no Warner TV show has ever gotten lossless, which would explain why the Clone Wars movie got lossless while the TV show didn't. I don't understand why Warner refuses to use lossless on TV shows when it would help shows like Clone Wars, Chuck, Smallville, and Fringe which have a lot of action.

Wait, Clone Wars Season 1 isn't lossless? Okay now, that's just f**king stupid... I guess I can scratch that off my list of titles to buy, just on principle. I don't need it that bad, but I was probably going to pick it up eventually. Saves me money I guess... Star Trek TOS gets a 7.1 remaster in DTS-HD MA audio, and a brand new _STAR WARS_ doesn't get lossless at all???

I'm surprised Lucasfilm allowed that...

Rik

MarekM · 11-06-2009, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rik1138

Wait, Clone Wars Season 1 isn't lossless? Okay now, that's just f**king stupid... I guess I can scratch that off my list of titles to buy, just on principle. I don't need it that bad, but I was probably going to pick it up eventually. Saves me money I guess... Star Trek TOS gets a 7.1 remaster in DTS-HD MA audio, and a brand new _STAR WARS_ doesn't get lossless at all???

I'm surprised Lucasfilm allowed that...
Rik

+1

Marek

Alan Gordon · 11-06-2009, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatediesel

I'm pretty sure no Warner TV show has ever gotten lossless

Sole exception.

In all fairness, I believe that was Cartoon Network's decision (ala HBO/BBC) and not WB's.

~Alan

ghebert · 11-06-2009, 08:46 PM

I for one hope that Warner is looking at threads like this...putting a lossy audio track on Blu-Ray is as infuriating as when dvd's came with non-anamorphic releases.

Clark Kent · 11-06-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallendo

Actually they used the old DVD 192 kbs encode.

As far as the "Peanuts" haters, the show has an excellent musical track which would benefit from a high quality audio track. I don't understand some people's ideas that only loud explosions benefit from lossless sound. I find it quite the opposite. Loud explosions are just loud explosions, but music should be of the highest available quality.

It is even worse than imagined. I have the Charlie Brown soundtrack on hybrid SACD, and it smokes the lossy presentation by Warner. The idea it could not benefit from a lossless soundtrack is misguided.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hep

The only other option I can fathom, is that the policy is built around a (flawed) assumption that they will further profit from an eventual double dip.

That is what I would assume also, but frankly the titles WB is choosing to release in lossy have almost no double-dip potential except the Peanuts titles. There is no chance at seeing the tv shows released again with lossless soundtracks.

Hep · 11-06-2009, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

That is what I would assume also, but frankly the titles WB is choosing to release in lossy have almost no double-dip potential except the Peanuts titles. There is no chance at seeing the tv shows released again with lossless soundtracks.

Ya, that's why I think greed is the least likely reason they're going with lossy on TV.

PRO-630HD · 11-06-2009, 10:33 PM

Actually if you have bahearing the extra clarity from the lossless track could really benefit you.

DIY_HD · 11-06-2009, 10:45 PM

While it sounds like we are all singing the same song, this issue is not a technical one. It's an economic one. Studios produce what consumers want. As it was said at the beginning of this thread, "vote with your wallet."

If you were a movie studio and all the BDs with lossless tracks sold like hotcakes while the lossy ones gathered dust on the shelves, what would you produce? Honestly?

BozQ · 11-07-2009, 05:20 AM

I'll bet you guys won't be complaining if it was in lossy DTS.

bfellow · 11-07-2009, 06:22 AM

If there is an original mono or stereo track please leave it there like those TrueHD/PCM 2.0 films. Don't convert into a weak 5.1 DD mix with no back channels.

coolmilo · 11-07-2009, 04:06 PM

There is no reason, it's because of pure laziness.

Clark Kent · 11-06-2009, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

Where do "lossy" tracks come from?

They come from lossless PCM masters.

Therefore, for every lossy audio track out there, there's a linear PCM master that was used to make it also on the shelf.

It's as hard as pressing a button to have that LPCM master encoded in TrueHD or DTS-HD. It's even easier just to do stereo or mono LPCM on the BD... which is an option that's 100% legitimate.

That is what is so disturbing about the decision to leave off at the very least PCM audio on these type of releases. A 640 kbps Dolby Digital track means without any doubt that a PCM master exists and could have been used. Every player in existence plays PCM, and in mono form it takes up virtually no added space.

I hope the people responsible for these decisions are fired, much as the HD DVD cabal at Warner was pushed out.

Infrared Sight · 11-07-2009, 12:31 AM

I saw those at Target and was pissed because they had lossy audio. Ever since I stopped buying hd dvds, I have not made one purchase that didn't include a lossless track. I want pure high def blu-ray disc. That means 1080 picture and lossless audio. Period. There have been multiple titles I would have right now if it wasn't for lossy audio. For shame, and WB, you will never get my money unless it is pure high def blu-ray disc.

Arkadin · 11-07-2009, 12:36 AM

they might always "double-dip" later with lossless.

I know it sounds ludicrous, but it could happen.
they have re-released a few titles that only had DD at first and added lossless.

davcole · 11-07-2009, 02:12 AM

I so agree with the original poster, any kind of lossy compromise is unacceptable. There's no tangible reason for it at all. Not even VHS got that kind of disrespect.

I honestly do believe Warner's shift from lossy to lossless on their theatrical releases is due to threads like this where people have let it be known that a compromise is not acceptable.

11-07-2009, 04:06 PM	#16
coolmilo Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Silicon Valley Home Theater Gallery:16 Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:2	There is no reason, it's because of pure laziness. Last edited by coolmilo; 11-08-2009 at 12:39 AM.

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11-06-2009, 04:40 PM	#2
retablo Banned Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Hollywood Blu-ray collection:1307 Trading Score:1	Luckily, my hearing sucks, so I can't tell the difference between lossy & lossless. At least that's one thing I don't have to complain about.

11-06-2009, 05:11 PM	#3
doctorD Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Jun 2007 Location:Redmond, WA Home Theater Gallery:47 4K collection:397 Blu-ray collection:1723 Blu-ray reviews: 12 Trading Score:1	The thing I find interesting about their releases is there are times where it may be a toss up as to what a release will have. It does appear that all movies are getting lossless, but as mentioned some tv shows or movie animations that deserve lossless are getting lossy. Star Trek The Clone Wars Season 1 deserved a lossless track, but got lossy...where the movie version of The Clone Wars got lossless Superman/Batman: Public Enemies was another title that deserved lossless but instead got lossy where Green Lantern First Flight got a lossless track(s). It is what it is, but I do feel the OP's frustration and hope in the near future that Warners will just start releasing everything with at least one lossless track.

11-06-2009, 05:21 PM	#4
fatediesel Blu-ray Count Member since:Nov 2007 Location:Iowa Blu-ray collection:410 Trading Score:47	I'm pretty sure no Warner TV show has ever gotten lossless, which would explain why the Clone Wars movie got lossless while the TV show didn't. I don't understand why Warner refuses to use lossless on TV shows when it would help shows like Clone Wars, Chuck, Smallville, and Fringe which have a lot of action.

11-06-2009, 08:46 PM	#9
ghebert Active Member Member since:Oct 2008 4K collection:299 Blu-ray collection:616 Blu-ray reviews: 2	I for one hope that Warner is looking at threads like this...putting a lossy audio track on Blu-Ray is as infuriating as when dvd's came with non-anamorphic releases.

11-06-2009, 10:33 PM	#12
PRO-630HD Blu-ray Guru Member since:Oct 2009 Blu-ray reviews: 1	Actually if you have bahearing the extra clarity from the lossless track could really benefit you.

11-06-2009, 10:45 PM	#13
DIY_HD Active Member Member since:Jun 2008 Location:Atlanta, GA Home Theater Gallery:21 4K collection:4 Blu-ray collection:88 DVD collection:126 Blu-ray reviews:2	While it sounds like we are all singing the same song, this issue is not a technical one. It's an economic one. Studios produce what consumers want. As it was said at the beginning of this thread, "vote with your wallet." If you were a movie studio and all the BDs with lossless tracks sold like hotcakes while the lossy ones gathered dust on the shelves, what would you produce? Honestly?

11-07-2009, 05:20 AM	#14
BozQ Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jun 2007 Location:Singapore 4K collection:- Blu-ray collection:-	I'll bet you guys won't be complaining if it was in lossy DTS.

11-07-2009, 06:22 AM	#15
bfellow Active Member Member since:Oct 2008 Blu-ray collection:139 Blu-ray reviews:12 Trading Score:1	If there is an original mono or stereo track please leave it there like those TrueHD/PCM 2.0 films. Don't convert into a weak 5.1 DD mix with no back channels.

11-07-2009, 12:31 AM	#18
Infrared Sight Expert Member Member since:Feb 2008 Location:Southern Utah Home Theater Gallery:65 4K collection:26 Blu-ray collection:630 Trading Score:38	I saw those at Target and was pissed because they had lossy audio. Ever since I stopped buying hd dvds, I have not made one purchase that didn't include a lossless track. I want pure high def blu-ray disc. That means 1080 picture and lossless audio. Period. There have been multiple titles I would have right now if it wasn't for lossy audio. For shame, and WB, you will never get my money unless it is pure high def blu-ray disc.

11-07-2009, 12:36 AM	#19
Arkadin Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Mar 2007 Location:...somewhere in Sweden Blu-ray collection:- Blu-ray reviews: 1 Trading Score:9	they might always "double-dip" later with lossless. I know it sounds ludicrous, but it could happen. they have re-released a few titles that only had DD at first and added lossless.

11-07-2009, 02:12 AM	#20
davcole Power Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Cincinnati, Oh 4K collection:138 Blu-ray collection:407 Digital collection:25 Blu-ray reviews: 146 Trading Score:9	I so agree with the original poster, any kind of lossy compromise is unacceptable. There's no tangible reason for it at all. Not even VHS got that kind of disrespect. I honestly do believe Warner's shift from lossy to lossless on their theatrical releases is due to threads like this where people have let it be known that a compromise is not acceptable.

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