2025 Major League Baseball Thread

[Dexter Morgan]

Originally Posted by toef

Actual numbers mean nothing to them. There will always be an excuse (in this case "well... so what?! NYC is HUGE!", or something like that).

There's no denying that there are bandwagon Yankee fans, but that happens with all teams, so what can you do?

There are just as many bandwagon Red Sox fans from about 2003 onward as there were Yankees bandwagoners from the late 90s.

But how many teams have fans like these?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleacher_Creatures

Although I guess if someone hates the Yankees, they'll probably hate the Bleacher Creatures too.

Yeah, it's such a debate; not sure why I even bothered to reply.

The Bleacher Creatures are nuts! You can always hear them doing Roll Call as well as other various chants, on the YES broadcasts.

Have you read the book mentioned in the Wikipedia post?

[SteelPen]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

Ya, the Florida teams have a short but solid history or winning thus far. The Marlins already have two World Series win, including their beat down of the Yankees in 2003 which was amusing given the Marlins tiny payroll that year. Rays already made it to a World Series.

Man, I forgot about the St.Pete Saints...

http://www.ebbets.com/product/StPete...aseballJerseys

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by Redliner17k

Man, I forgot about the St.Pete Saints...

http://www.ebbets.com/product/StPete...aseballJerseys

Honestly I've never really held baseball in the same regard as other professional sports like NBA and NFL largely due to salary caps. It's a bit hard to take any sport seriously that has no salary cap of any kind. You will never have any kind of competitive balance with things the way they are now.

None of New York's other pro sports teams have won an unusually high number of championships. It's largely due to salaries. With no salary cap I imagine the Knicks would have a dozen or so NBA titles hanging from Madison Square Garden and a half dozen Super Bowl wins for the Giants.

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

Honestly I've never really held baseball in the same regard as other professional sports like NBA and NFL largely due to salary caps. It's a bit hard to take any sport seriously that has no salary cap of any kind. You will never have any kind of competitive balance with things the way they are now.

You do realize there has been more parity in MLB the last ten years than in the NBA and NFL? Look at the championships won.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

You do realize there has been more parity in MLB the last ten years than in the NBA and NFL? Look at the championships won.

Yes, the top baseball teams typically have a win % of around .600. In other sports the teams that win the championships are usually the teams that develop (scouting, recruiting, etc.) great players. In baseball it's the teams that buy talent and produce very little of their own talent. The fact that the best teams and worst teams are separated by about .200 as far as records go has more to do with the dynamics of baseball than anything else.

Just saying it would be nice if the teams that actually work to build something in their own right like Oakland, Minnesota, Tampa Bay, Florida, etc. were able to retain their guys like teams from smaller markets in other sports are able to do.

[SteelPen]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

Yes, the top baseball teams typically have a win % of around .600. In other sports the teams that win the championships are usually the teams that develop (scouting, recruiting, etc.) great players. In baseball it's the teams that buy talent and produce very little of their own talent. The fact that the best teams and worst teams are separated by about .200 as far as records go has more to do with the dynamics of baseball than anything else.

Just saying it would be nice if the teams that actually work to build something in their own right like Oakland, Minnesota, Tampa Bay, Florida, etc. were able to retain their guys like teams from smaller markets in other sports are able to do.

Pittsburgh should be on the list, but management blew up that franchise!

1. Andrew McCutchen CF
2. Nate McLouth RF
3. Jason Bay LF
4. Ryan Howard 1B (Ryan was in their farm system)
5. Aramis Ramirez 3B
6. Ryan Doumit C
7. Freddy Sanchez 2B
8. Jack Wilson SS
9. Pitcher

[SteelPen]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

Honestly I've never really held baseball in the same regard as other professional sports like NBA and NFL largely due to salary caps. It's a bit hard to take any sport seriously that has no salary cap of any kind. You will never have any kind of competitive balance with things the way they are now.

None of New York's other pro sports teams have won an unusually high number of championships. It's largely due to salaries. With no salary cap I imagine the Knicks would have a dozen or so NBA titles hanging from Madison Square Garden and a half dozen Super Bowl wins for the Giants.

MLB > NBA! I hate basketball!

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by Redliner17k

Pittsburgh should be on the list, but management blew up that franchise!

1. Andrew McCutchen CF
2. Nate McLouth RF
3. Jason Bay LF
4. Ryan Howard 1B (Ryan was in their farm system)
5. Aramis Ramirez 3B
6. Ryan Doumit C
7. Freddy Sanchez 2B
8. Jack Wilson SS
9. Pitcher

Interesting. I didn't realize the Pittsburgh farm system produced that much talent.

When people talk about the best teams that never won a World Series I often bring up the 1994 Expos. It really is amazing how much talent that team had. Had the 1994 strike never happened I think it's very likely the Expos might have had the beginnings of a dynasty. The Braves were at the height of the success at the time yet Montreal had a 6.5 game lead when the strike happened. They just clobbered the Braves head to head that season. Breaking that team up was really a tragedy. Just look at their 1994 team.

Record: 74-40

Starting Pitchers:
Ken Hill (16-5)
Pedro Martinez (11-5)
Jeff Fasero (8-0)
Butch Henry (8-3)
Kirk Rueter (7-3)

Relief Pitchers:
John Wetteland (25 saves, 2.83 ERA)
Mel Rojas (16 saves, 3.32 ERA)
Jeff Shaw

Lineup:
1B - Cliff Floyd
2B - Mike Lansing
3B - Sean Berry
SS - Wil Cordero
CF - Marquis Grissom
LF - Moises Alou
RF - Larry Walker

[Dexter Morgan]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

Yes, the top baseball teams typically have a win % of around .600. In other sports the teams that win the championships are usually the teams that develop (scouting, recruiting, etc.) great players. In baseball it's the teams that buy talent and produce very little of their own talent. The fact that the best teams and worst teams are separated by about .200 as far as records go has more to do with the dynamics of baseball than anything else.

Just saying it would be nice if the teams that actually work to build something in their own right like Oakland, Minnesota, Tampa Bay, Florida, etc. were able to retain their guys like teams from smaller markets in other sports are able to do.

HA! Have you ever heard of the Core Four, or do you just not know much about baseball? That would be Derek Jeter, Andy Pettitte, Jorge Posada, and Mariano Rivera. All have been Yankees since 1995 (with the exception of Pettitte for 3 years). Tell me another franchise that has kept 3 players for the past 15 years straight (or 4 for 12 of 15 years). Yeah......thats what I thought...

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by Blu Atlas

HA! Have you ever heard of the Core Four, or do you just not know much about baseball? That would be Derek Jeter, Andy Pettitte, Jorge Posada, and Mariano Rivera. All have been Yankees since 1995 (with the exception of Pettitte for 3 years). Tell me another franchise that has kept 3 players for the past 15 years straight (or 4 for 12 of 15 years). Yeah......thats what I thought...

Thanks for proving my point. Many teams have produced at least 4 players that talented over the course of 15 years. None of them have been able to retain them due to financial reasons. It's basic economics really. No salary cap + massive media market = success.

[hc666]

I think the Yankee's Core 4 makes it look like there is an issue with no salary cap.

If any team had a Core 4 like the Yankees, they would have success. Ok yeah they get paid alot but they probably want to be there and would play for whatever they were offered.

Without those 4 guys the Yankees are nothing. No matter how much they spend. You don't win 90+ games every year without a great closer. They have the best. If they had a so-so closer, 90+ wins becomes 88 wins... no playoffs. He's aging... thankfully haha.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the Yankees like every one else outside the area and who doesn't let Jay-Z pick my favorite teams for me(shot at the posers), but without that core the Yankees are the Mets.

[fatediesel]

Originally Posted by Redliner17k

It wouldn't be the first football game played at AT&T Park! AT&T Park was home of the San Francisco Demons of the XFL back in 2001! Also, it was home of the East-West Shrine game, San Francisco Redwoods of the UFL in 2009 and the Emerald Bowl!

Yeah, I read about the football history at AT&T Park later yesterday. One thing Cal coach Jeff Tedford was adamant about was having the team's benches on opposite sides of the field. In all the other football games they had both team's benches on the same side of the field. They figured out an alignment to have both teams on opposite sides of the field. If they couldn't have figured out a way to have the teams on opposite sides they would have probably played at the 49ers or Raiders stadiums.

[Ashamed Pegasus]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

Honestly I've never really held baseball in the same regard as other professional sports like NBA and NFL largely due to salary caps. It's a bit hard to take any sport seriously that has no salary cap of any kind. You will never have any kind of competitive balance with things the way they are now.

Perhaps I have not paid too much attention to Football since the Super Bowl ended but I could have sworn the salary cap arbitration expired in March, so as of right now there is no salary cap in the NFL...

[fatediesel]

Originally Posted by Ashamed Pegasus

Perhaps I have not paid too much attention to Football since the Super Bowl ended but I could have sworn the salary cap arbitration expired in March, so as of right now there is no salary cap in the NFL...

It's technically true that there is no salary cap in the NFL for the upcoming season because a new labor agreement hasn't been reached, but there are a lot of rules that have prevented excessive spending, and as a whole less money has been spent by virtually all teams this offseason than in a regular year. If a new agreement isn't reached by next year there could be a lockout before the 2011 season, just as there could be a lockout in the NBA in 2011. Although the owners and union talk like a lockout in the NFL is likely I don't believe it will happen because both sides have too much to lose. An NBA lockout is more likely because a lot of teams are losing money and the owners are going to make some demands that will severely lower the contract lengths and money paid to the players.

[toef]

Originally Posted by Blu Atlas

Yeah, it's such a debate; not sure why I even bothered to reply.

The Bleacher Creatures are nuts! You can always hear them doing Roll Call as well as other various chants, on the YES broadcasts.

Have you read the book mentioned in the Wikipedia post?

Nope, haven't read the book. I met Vinny at the last game I went to. I kind of wish I had his schedule (he runs a t-shirt business from his house/apartment during the day, and goes to every game).

Originally Posted by hc666

I think the Yankee's Core 4 makes it look like there is an issue with no salary cap.

If any team had a Core 4 like the Yankees, they would have success. Ok yeah they get paid alot but they probably want to be there and would play for whatever they were offered.

Without those 4 guys the Yankees are nothing. No matter how much they spend. You don't win 90+ games every year without a great closer. They have the best. If they had a so-so closer, 90+ wins becomes 88 wins... no playoffs. He's aging... thankfully haha.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the Yankees like every one else outside the area and who doesn't let Jay-Z pick my favorite teams for me(shot at the posers), but without that core the Yankees are the Mets.

I agree with you, but I also see Chad's point. Other teams might have Core 4-type players, but can't afford to keep them when they become free agents. But I still don't see the problem.

If a team does good scouting, they can get good players locked in for at least six years, and get some good use out of them. Then in the final year of their contracts, they can trade them for some new young players that they can keep around for a while.

I'm actually going to go see Strasburg pitch tomorrow night, since I'm currently visiting family in the area. There's an example of how to get the most out of your big prospect... work him into the Majors in a single season. I don't know where he started off this season, but he was recently called up to AAA, and is expected to be called up to the Nationals in June.

HC, do you live in Toronto? You could probably make the short drive down to Syracuse to check him out. His first start on Friday was sold out (normal attendance is probably 20-25% of capacity). I guess that's at least one benefit of Syracuse not being affiliated with the Blue Jays anymore.

If there's a problem, it's that the Yankees don't get credit for their own farm system.

If Pettitte is starting, the Yankees have one of their developed players on the mound. Either Posada or Cervelli will catch, both from the Yankees system. Half the infield will be their own. Their outfielders, up until this year, was loaded with their own (Gardner, Melky, and Austin Jackson waiting in the wings). Their own players can come in to relieve Andy (Chamberlain, Robertson, Aceves), and then their own guy closes out the game (Rivera).

The Yankees might fill holes by buying some guys, but I'd hardly say they build their team around purchased players.

I liked that Jay-Z got booed after the one particular line ("I made the Yankee hat more famous than a Yankee can"), when performing Empire State of Mind at Yankee Stadium last year.

[Hi-Def Steve]

Originally Posted by toef

I agree with you, but I also see Chad's point. Other teams might have Core 4-type players, but can't afford to keep them when they become free agents. But I still don't see the problem.

Of course you don't see a problem, because your team always scoops them up.

[Dexter Morgan]

Originally Posted by toef

I liked that Jay-Z got booed after the one particular line ("I made the Yankee hat more famous than a Yankee can"), when performing Empire State of Mind at Yankee Stadium last year.

I have closeup video from the '09 Victory Parade, of someone winging a full toilet paper roll at Jay-Z's head from the crowd. Almost got him.


This is a good article related to the subject matter du jour, written by former major leaguer and current broadcaster Bob Scanlon.

[toef]

Originally Posted by Hi-Def Steve

Of course you don't see a problem, because your team always scoops them up.

Haha, way to take that part of my post out of context. The rest explains why.

I can see your frustration though, because the Dodgers have tried to be the West Coast Yankees, but so far haven't had the same success.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by toef

If a team does good scouting, they can get good players locked in for at least six years, and get some good use out of them. Then in the final year of their contracts, they can trade them for some new young players that they can keep around for a while.

The Yankees might fill holes by buying some guys, but I'd hardly say they build their team around purchased players.

Good scouting only goes so far. Teams like Minnesota and Oakland are hands down the best at scouting prospects and even that only goes so far. They almost never have enough cash to resign anyone of value. The one exception I can think of is Mauer resigning with Minnesota because being a hometown guy they really had to for the fans sake.

But Yankees plugging a few holes? Not really.

These are the guys they took from other MLB teams or from Japan in Matsui's case that were Yankee starters in 2009:
Mark Teixeira
Alex Rodriguez
Johnny Damon
Hideki Matsui
Nick Swisher

These starters were brought up through the Yankee farm system:
Robinson Cano
Melky Cabrera
Jorge Posada
Derek Jeter

Starters:
Andy Pettitte - Lifelong Yankee
CC Sabathia - bought in free agency
A.J. Burnett - bought in free agency
Joba Chamberlain - Lifelong Yankee

That's not plugging a few holes. That's the bulk of the key players on the team bought on the market.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by toef

Haha, way to take that part of my post out of context. The rest explains why.

I can see your frustration though, because the Dodgers have tried to be the West Coast Yankees, but so far haven't had the same success.

Not a Dodgers fan but the Dodgers don't qualify as "trying to be the west coast Yankees." If they did their payroll would probably be a bit more competitive.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/salaries
2009:
New York Yankees $206,333,389
Los Angeles Dodgers $94,945,517