2025 Major League Baseball Thread

[fatediesel]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

Starters:
Andy Pettitte - Lifelong Yankee

Pettitte isn't a lifelong Yankee, he played for the Astros from 2004-2006, but he did come up in the Yankees farm system and was a key starter in their late 90s/00 World Series teams.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by fatediesel

Pettitte isn't a lifelong Yankee, he played for the Astros from 2004-2006, but he did come up in the Yankees farm system and was a key starter in their late 90s/00 World Series teams.

That's what I meant to say. I'll count him as an actual Yankee since he spent most of his career there and came up in their farm system.

[Hi-Def Steve]

Originally Posted by toef

Haha, way to take that part of my post out of context. The rest explains why.

I can see your frustration though, because the Dodgers have tried to be the West Coast Yankees, but so far haven't had the same success.

That would be true if they were spending 100 million dollars more than they already do.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by Hi-Def Steve

That would be true if they were spending 100 million dollars more than they already do.

$112 million more actually. See my earlier post. But don't worry, numbers mean nothing to them. In their world there is no difference between spending $50 or 100 mill versus $200+ mill. At least no difference when it's their team spending the higher amount.

Notice the other NY teams - Knicks, Giants, Jets, Rangers, etc. don't win inordinate numbers of championships. Those sports happen to have caps. But I'm sure that's just some crazy coincidence.

[Dexter Morgan]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

These are the guys they took from other MLB teams or from Japan in Matsui's case that were Yankee starters in 2009:
Mark Teixeira
Alex Rodriguez
Johnny Damon
Hideki Matsui
Nick Swisher

These starters were brought up through the Yankee farm system:
Robinson Cano
Melky Cabrera
Jorge Posada
Derek Jeter

Starters:
Andy Pettitte - Lifelong Yankee
CC Sabathia - bought in free agency
A.J. Burnett - bought in free agency
Joba Chamberlain - Lifelong Yankee

That's not plugging a few holes. That's the bulk of the key players on the team bought on the market.

I like your wording; its almost as if they snuck in the homes of the players in the middle of the night and kidnapped them. And... since the Yankees took Matsui from Japan, did they also take Cano and Cabrera from the Dominican Republic, and Posada from Puerto Rico??? OMG Jeter is the only real every day Yankee!!!

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by Blu Atlas

I like your wording; its almost as if they snuck in the homes of the players in the middle of the night and kidnapped them. And... since the Yankees took Matsui from Japan, did they also take Cano and Cabrera from the Dominican Republic, and Posada from Puerto Rico??? OMG Jeter is the only real every day Yankee!!!

Posada was DRAFTED by the Yankees from a college in the USA.

And Matsui was signed by the Yankees (who outbide every other team naturally) FROM Japan.

Sorry, thought you understood the difference there.

[toef]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

$112 million more actually. See my earlier post. But don't worry, numbers mean nothing to them. In their world there is no difference between spending $50 or 100 mill versus $200+ mill. At least no difference when it's their team spending the higher amount.

Notice the other NY teams - Knicks, Giants, Jets, Rangers, etc. don't win inordinate numbers of championships. Those sports happen to have caps. But I'm sure that's just some crazy coincidence.

Numbers are clearly not your strong suit.

Do the Yankees spend more than every other team?

Sure they do.

But they pay a premium for their players (also known as overpaying). The numbers should be adjusted downward, if you really want to compare the actual value of talent they are purchasing.

Giambi's 2008 salary on the Yankees: $23 million
Giambi's 2009 salary on the Rockies: $4 million

Abreu's 2008 salary on the Yankees: $16 million
Abreu's 2009 salary on the Angels: $5 million

Matsui's 2009 salary on the Yankees: $13 million
Matsui's 2010 salary on the Angels: $6.5 million

A-Rod would NOT make as much as he's making on the Yankees, on any other team.

Sabathia would NOT make as much as he's making on the Yankees, on any other team.

Jeter would NOT make as much as he's making on the Yankees, on any other team.

Posada would NOT make as much as he's making on the Yankees, on any other team.

You can whine all day about the Yankees spending so much more money than everyone else, but the players milk it out of the team because the Yankees can afford to pay it.

Just because the Yankees sign these guys for huge amounts of money doesn't mean similar talent can't be purchased for much lower prices by any other team.

The faulty assumption lies in this idea that there's some sort of limited pool of talent, and that the Yankees snatch up all the good players. There are 750 players on the active MLB rosters, and how many millions of people play baseball worldwide? In the US alone, there are over 2.5 million kids playing Little League. There are another half million playing high school or college ball.

The pool is huge.

And yet the Yankees are still limited to the same 25 spots on their active roster as any other MLB club. Are you really arguing that there aren't more than 30 or so truly great baseball players in the world, and that the Yankees unfairly take most of them?

Assume for a second that the Yankees bought the 25 best players in baseball. What does the 26th best player do? There's no spot for him on the Yankees roster, so his options are to go start a catering business, or *GASP* take a lesser offer from a team that doesn't have as much money to spend as the Yankees. But get this... he's still the 26th best player in the world! How much worse can he really be compared to the 25th best?

In reality, the Yankees don't have the best 25 players in the world. And even if they did, I doubt the top 25 is significantly better than the rest.

But it's easier for losing clubs to blame the Yankees' payroll, than to accept their own shortcomings.

Sure, the Yankees had the highest payroll in 2009. But they also did in 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002, and 2001, yet as the decade came to a close, they're only 27 time champions, not 35. Go figure.

It can't possibly have anything to do with other teams having more talented players, because the Yankees clearly take them all.

[fatediesel]

Because of the G20 Summit taking place in Toronto, the Phillies-Blue Jays series , which takes place June 25-27 and was expected to be Roy Halladay's return to Toronto, has been moved to Philadelphia. Because it's the only series between the 2 teams the Blue Jays will not get a chance to play the Phillies at home. The Blue Jays will be considered the home team, and will bat last and the game will feature the designated hitter.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5180700

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by toef

Do the Yankees spend more than every other team?

Sure they do.

But they pay a premium for their players (also known as overpaying). The numbers should be adjusted downward, if you really want to compare the actual value of talent they are purchasing.

Giambi's 2008 salary on the Yankees: $23 million
Giambi's 2009 salary on the Rockies: $4 million

Abreu's 2008 salary on the Yankees: $16 million
Abreu's 2009 salary on the Angels: $5 million

Matsui's 2009 salary on the Yankees: $13 million
Matsui's 2010 salary on the Angels: $6.5 million

A-Rod would NOT make as much as he's making on the Yankees, on any other team.

Sabathia would NOT make as much as he's making on the Yankees, on any other team.

Jeter would NOT make as much as he's making on the Yankees, on any other team.

Posada would NOT make as much as he's making on the Yankees, on any other team.

Thanks for making my point.

And by the way, those Yankee payroll numbers you give for Matsui, Abreu and Giambi were final years of long-term contracts they received many years ago when they still had talent. It's not rocket science that their 2009 pay dropped off considerably. It's because they are broken down and/or over-the hill.

[steelcity24]

Originally Posted by toef

Numbers are clearly not your strong suit.

Do the Yankees spend more than every other team?

Sure they do.

But they pay a premium for their players (also known as overpaying). The numbers should be adjusted downward, if you really want to compare the actual value of talent they are purchasing.

Giambi's 2008 salary on the Yankees: $23 million
Giambi's 2009 salary on the Rockies: $4 million

Abreu's 2008 salary on the Yankees: $16 million
Abreu's 2009 salary on the Angels: $5 million

Matsui's 2009 salary on the Yankees: $13 million
Matsui's 2010 salary on the Angels: $6.5 million

A-Rod would NOT make as much as he's making on the Yankees, on any other team.

Sabathia would NOT make as much as he's making on the Yankees, on any other team.

Jeter would NOT make as much as he's making on the Yankees, on any other team.

Posada would NOT make as much as he's making on the Yankees, on any other team.

You can whine all day about the Yankees spending so much more money than everyone else, but the players milk it out of the team because the Yankees can afford to pay it.

.

The players do not milk money out of the Yankees because they know they can afford it. The Yankees throw out this cash to destroy other teams when they are fighting for a certain player.

[Hi-Def Steve]

Yankees, please stay away from our boy Ethier. Pretty please. With a cherry on top.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by steelcity24

The players do not milk money out of the Yankees because they know they can afford it. The Yankees throw out this cash to destroy other teams when they are fighting for a certain player.

And then the players union moans and cries if a player actually wants to take a slightly lower offer from a team other than the Yankees. See Sabathia, CC.

[toef]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

Thanks for making my point.

And by the way, those Yankee payroll numbers you give for Matsui, Abreu and Giambi were final years of long-term contracts they received many years ago when they still had talent. It's not rocket science that their 2009 pay dropped off considerably. It's because they are broken down and/or over-the hill.

I didn't exactly make your point.

And, sure, the numbers might be related to long-term contracts, but that's a weakness of the Yankees that other teams can avoid.

The point still remains that the Yankees overpay for their talent. There isn't a 1:1 ratio for salaries:talent. If the Yankees have a payroll of $200 million, their talent is not 4x as good as a team with a $50m payroll.

The Blue Jays spent $80 million last year, and won 75 games. The Yankees spent 2.5x as much, so they must've had 2.5x the talent... so that explains why they won 188 games last year. Got it.

If anything, you're disproving your own point. On the one hand you want to argue that it's unfair, because the Yankees spend so much more than everyone else. But on the other, you're admitting they pay tons of money for washed up talent, due to the long-term contracts, and those over-the-hill players are taking up precious spots on the roster.

Originally Posted by steelcity24

The players do not milk money out of the Yankees because they know they can afford it. The Yankees throw out this cash to destroy other teams when they are fighting for a certain player.

In theory you sound correct, but in reality this isn't the case. Look at the way Damon treated the Yankees when his contract was up. Look at the way A-Rod treated the Yankees when he optioned out. Look at the way Posada treated the Yankees when his contract was up.

They all tried to get the Yankees to pay up as much as possible, even though they knew no other team could come close to what the Yankees were offering.

In Damon's case, he overestimated his importance to the team, and had to go find a new one.

But even if that wasn't the case, the point, in general, still remains that the Yankees pay more than other teams do, for the same amount of talent.

[fatediesel]

It's not really fair to compare Giambi, Abreu, and Matsui's 2008 salaries to their 2009 salaries. Giambi had finished up a 7-year deal. Matsui had finished up a 4-year deal. Abreu had finished a 6-year deal. All were considered past their prime and weren't going to get big money long-term deals like they had just finished. In addition the economic landscape had changed and forced most teams to be more fiscally responsible. I'm not saying the Yankees don't overpay for players, I'm just saying it's not an apples to apples comparison.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by fatediesel

It's not really fair to compare Giambi, Abreu, and Matsui's 2008 salaries to their 2009 salaries. Giambi had finished up a 7-year deal. Matsui had finished up a 4-year deal. Abreu had finished a 6-year deal. All were considered past their prime and weren't going to get big money long-term deals like they had just finished. In addition the economic landscape had changed and forced most teams to be more fiscally responsible. I'm not saying the Yankees don't overpay for players, I'm just saying it's not an apples to apples comparison.

He already brushed right past that point as usual. He's an unknowledgable "Yankee fan." From my experience the average Yankee fan is among the least knowledgable fans in all professional sports. Most can't name a Yankee great outside of Ruth, Mantle or Jeter. No use trying to use relevant facts. They just get ignored or spun into some nonsensical rant about 27 rings (many of which were won before my grandparents were alive). When the Yanks go on a slump he'll vanish faster than Yankee paraphanelia following their 2001, 2003 and 2004 playoff meltdowns.

[hc666]

Originally Posted by toef

HC, do you live in Toronto? You could probably make the short drive down to Syracuse to check him out. His first start on Friday was sold out (normal attendance is probably 20-25% of capacity). I guess that's at least one benefit of Syracuse not being affiliated with the Blue Jays anymore.
.

Hey man, nope Nova Scotia here... go to TO alot though for games.

Going up Monday and Tuesday to watch the Jays and Twins actually.

Sitting behind the plate on Monday night... look for me lol Will have a baby blue retro jays sweater on.. i will be to the left of the pitcher on the HD wide screen in the front row

[hc666]

Originally Posted by fatediesel

Because of the G20 Summit taking place in Toronto, the Phillies-Blue Jays series , which takes place June 25-27 and was expected to be Roy Halladay's return to Toronto, has been moved to Philadelphia. Because it's the only series between the 2 teams the Blue Jays will not get a chance to play the Phillies at home. The Blue Jays will be considered the home team, and will bat last and the game will feature the designated hitter.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5180700

Steven Harper can KMA!

Probably the only sell out of the year in TO... and it's being moved so World Leaders can massage each other with money.

Sickening.

[Hi-Def Steve]

Originally Posted by toef

The Blue Jays spent $80 million last year, and won 75 games. The Yankees spent 2.5x as much, so they must've had 2.5x the talent... so that explains why they won 188 games last year. Got it.

Oh come on! LOL. You're really reaching now. Take away that extra 100 million and you're probably a .500 club as well.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by Hi-Def Steve

Oh come on! LOL. You're really reaching now. Take away that extra 100 million and you're probably a .500 club as well.

Judging by their recent history with scouting young talent and .500 might be a reach for them.

Apparently he thinks the dynamics of baseball allow for exponential increases in wins.

[hc666]

That Blue Jays 80 million payroll is misleading... alot of that money went to players not playing... which is even worse... Thomas, BJ Ryan... etc. The Jays past sins caught up with them under JP Richardi... the worst GM in Jays history. Want to blow some money? Hire JP!