shipped/sold dark red degrees of a circle thing

[xbd]

Originally Posted by Joe Cain

Shipped ≠ sold.

You can't sell any more than you've shipped, certainly that logic should ring clear for everyone.

[Joe Cain]

Originally Posted by xbd

You can't sell anymore than you've shipped, certainly that logic should ring clear for everyone.

No doubt. You can sell less.

[xbd]

Originally Posted by Joe Cain

No doubt. You can sell less.

Right. So if you backtrack to the question I was answering in the first place...

[Joe Cain]

Yeah, I know---you were saying that some third party's sold numbers were accurate based on your knowledge of shipped figures. No offense intended. I'm simply suggesting the best you can personally vouch for would be that those numbers are not inaccurate, which is not exactly the same thing.

[xbd]

Originally Posted by Joe Cain

Yeah, I know---you were saying that some third party's sold numbers were accurate based on your knowledge of shipped figures. No offense intended. I'm simply suggesting the best you can personally vouch for would be that those numbers are not inaccurate, which is not exactly the same thing.

Originally Posted by BluOgre

The problem with following shipped figures is the fact that doesn't represent what was sold at retail. MS will say they shipped 14 million units but that doesn't mean each of those units were purchased by a customer.

To be counted as part of X360's installed base you need to sell it to a customer. That's why I never look at what MS or Sony's numbers. NPD is a much better source for that. I do believe though X360 is around those numbers since Halo3 launched.

You both are confused. This is the statement I was originally responding to:

X360 in mid december 2006 at 9.5 M and now at 13.00 M : only 3.5 M in 10.5 months??? ridiculous

By bringing up the Microsoft financials, I was highlighting that indeed the total 360 sell-through to this point is in the vicinity of ~13 million, and that the figures in contention were not "ridiculous." I think in that vein, citing financials/shipped figures is very much a solid, 100% factual way of laying the doubt to rest.

All this talk of NPDs and third-parties, besides not even being what I was speaking to in the first place (rather simply showing how the cap is indeed ~13 million), IMO serves as a gateway to a conversation that is ultimately a waste of time. That being a gaming/NPD conversation.

If you look for example at my posts after the claim of Spider-man over 200k were made, I think you'll find that I am first in line among those that seek the 'real' stats, so there's no need to worry about whether or not I understand shipped, sold, and other such nuances.

[Joe Cain]

Originally Posted by xbd

You both are confused. This is the statement I was originally responding to:

X360 in mid december 2006 at 9.5 M and now at 13.00 M : only 3.5 M in 10.5 months??? ridiculous

By bringing up the Microsoft financials, I was highlighting that indeed the total 360 sell-through to this point is in the vicinity of ~13 million, and that the figures in contention were not "ridiculous." I think in that vein, citing financials/shipped figures is very much a solid, 100% factual way of laying the doubt to rest.

All this talk of NPDs and third-parties, besides not even being what I was speaking to in the first place (rather simply showing how the cap is indeed ~13 million), IMO serves as a gateway to a conversation that is ultimately a waste of time. That being a gaming/NPD conversation.

If you look for example at my posts after the claim of Spider-man over 200k were made, I think you'll find that I am first in line among those that seek the 'real' stats, so there's no need to worry about whether or not I understand shipped, sold, and other such nuances.

I will never deny being tragically confused.

Agreed, the numbers are not "ridiculous." I stand by my semantic nitpicking.

The initial question was not asked to specifically to you, so I fail to see why you should bag on anyone who responds to your answer posted in a public forum. You could always send a PM.

[xbd]

Originally Posted by Joe Cain

The initial question was not asked to specifically to you, so I fail to see why you should bag on anyone who responds to your answer posted in a public forum. You could always send a PM.

Fair enough, but beyond trying to verify the credibility of my claim, my post was more a mini-rant as to an Internet populace that needs information - both supports and rebuttals - spoon fed to them. What greater research tool is there in the world than the Internet? Yet I feel that it's more likely sometimes that someone would ask what the weather is currently in San Francisco rather than take the two seconds to go to weather channel and look it up themselves.

[sj001]

Originally Posted by xbd

You both are confused. This is the statement I was originally responding to:

X360 in mid december 2006 at 9.5 M and now at 13.00 M : only 3.5 M in 10.5 months??? ridiculous

By bringing up the Microsoft financials, I was highlighting that indeed the total 360 sell-through to this point is in the vicinity of ~13 million, and that the figures in contention were not "ridiculous." I think in that vein, citing financials/shipped figures is very much a solid, 100% factual way of laying the doubt to rest.

All this talk of NPDs and third-parties, besides not even being what I was speaking to in the first place (rather simply showing how the cap is indeed ~13 million), IMO serves as a gateway to a conversation that is ultimately a waste of time. That being a gaming/NPD conversation.

If you look for example at my posts after the claim of Spider-man over 200k were made, I think you'll find that I am first in line among those that seek the 'real' stats, so there's no need to worry about whether or not I understand shipped, sold, and other such nuances.

You sound familiar, weren't you just here, but under a different name?

[BluOgre]

Originally Posted by xbd

Those numbers are accurate in terms of 360 sales.

Originally Posted by xbd

You both are confused. This is the statement I was originally responding to:

X360 in mid december 2006 at 9.5 M and now at 13.00 M : only 3.5 M in 10.5 months??? ridiculous

By bringing up the Microsoft financials, I was highlighting that indeed the total 360 sell-through to this point is in the vicinity of ~13 million, and that the figures in contention were not "ridiculous." I think in that vein, citing financials/shipped figures is very much a solid, 100% factual way of laying the doubt to rest.

All this talk of NPDs and third-parties, besides not even being what I was speaking to in the first place (rather simply showing how the cap is indeed ~13 million), IMO serves as a gateway to a conversation that is ultimately a waste of time. That being a gaming/NPD conversation.

If you look for example at my posts after the claim of Spider-man over 200k were made, I think you'll find that I am first in line among those that seek the 'real' stats, so there's no need to worry about whether or not I understand shipped, sold, and other such nuances.

Ok if you want to get technical to what I was refering to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTenth
"do the Nielsen numbers give the hardware sales? PS3, X360, Wii because nexgenwars and VGchartz don't seem right (X360 in mid december 2006 at 9.5 M and now at 13.00 M : only 3.5 M in 10.5 months??? ridiculous)
if not any reliable site on hardware numbers? "

Your answer:

"Those numbers are accurate in terms of 360 sales."


Then you go on to say start quoting shipping numbers and NOT sales. That is what my problem with your comment was about. The original question you answered was about the reliablity of X360 having sold only 3.5 million units this year from retailers to customers.....not 3.5 million units being shipped from MS to retailers.

The original question was trying to compare sites that track sales in hadware like Nielsen tracks software sales. Nielsen DOESN'T track what was shipped. That's why I said if you want to deal with actual sales like Nielsen you can't go by what MS says they shipped in the finanicals.

I don't care how close you think the sales are to shipped they are NOT exact. The only console you could probably equate shipped to being retail sales is the Wii. That's only because it sells immidately. X360 and PS3 do not have this wonderful problem.

[xbd]

Originally Posted by BluOgre

...

BluOgre yes, you already stated as much when you said that your problem with my post was semantics-related. Semantics is a word I understand as well you know.

The original question was trying to compare sites that track sales in hadware like Nielsen tracks software sales.

But that's just it though, those sites *do not* track the sales as NPD does - indeed their own figures are just an abstraction/amalgam of other legitimate tracking systems. And in that, I feel their numbers are worthwhile to an extent.

Yet knowing also that European tracking is very very weak on a stat basis, if we're looking at global figures, everything else aside I think truly that shipped numbers are the way to go, especially as the general pool of ownership grows larger. There is only ever a certain amount of hardware in the channel: replacement stock means shifted units.

Originally Posted by BluOgre

I don't care how close you think the sales are to shipped they are NOT exact.

But it can't possibly be exact figures that you're looking for, since NPD numbers themselves are not exact. Shipped numbers are the exact shipped numbers, whereas sales figures are only ever degrees of educated guess.