SACDs

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by HAMP

ok, I will give that a try tomorrow, I think I'm too tired.

I also think something could be wrong, It sounds the same as a SACD and CD from the same player.

I do get the DSD display on the 805 when playing SACD
I get Multi-Channel displayed on the 805 when playing the CD
I believe the reason multi is displayed, because I have the DTS setting set to NEO:Music or something like that.

Trust me on one point, nothing is lacking, it all sounds wonderful.

The CD layer is recorded using DSD, so it still sounds better than the regular CD version.

* Try this: Listen to the 2-channel SACD layer, and then the CD layer, but always in 2-channel Stereo (Pure Audio mode) from your 805.
And if you have the regular CD version, that would be another way to compare them again.

~ Don't use any Multichannel audio mode for now, just to familiarize yourself with the sound coming from only two speakers; that way it's easier to tell the difference.
And relax, don't try hard to listen, just let it flow. ...And turn the volume up to a good listening level, a realistic level (-10 db or so from your 805).

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

The CD layer is recorded using DSD, so it still sounds better than the regular CD version.

* Try this: Listen to the 2-channel SACD layer, and then the CD layer, but always in 2-channel Stereo (Pure Audio mode) from your 805.
And if you have the regular CD version, that would be another way to compare them again.

~ Don't use any Multichannel audio mode for now, just to familiarize yourself with the sound coming from only two speakers; that way it's easier to tell the difference.
And relax, don't try hard to listen, just let it flow. ...And turn the volume up to a good listening level, a realistic level (-10 db or so from your 805).

Well, It looks like I have to get another SACD, because I have read a few reviews that back up about the problem of Nora Jones sounding the same with SACD and CD

On another note, I now know that my 805 has a problem with 'Pure Audio' and 'Direct'..
When one of those are selected, it all sounds like sh!t. When I first use those, I was just thinking that I didn't like how it sounded, but then I heard another 805 and they use 'Pure Audio' and it was amazing.

I don't hate my 805, but now I am pissed that it is like this. I am going to have to check out a place that repair AVR's to fix this.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by HAMP

Ok! I will look into something else...
Thank you for that explanation, I totally understand now

I wish I knew this before I bought two copies of Nora Jones, one being a cd and the other being SACD.

The next SACD you purchase, do some research first to see where the SACD layer originated from.

DMP is a good label, so is Chesky. They record new artists using the best resolution possible, DSD bitstream from their encoders, no PCM 16-Bit/44.1 Khz bullshit here. ...They go for the jugular, the jujitsu way!

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by HAMP

Well, It looks like I have to get another SACD, because I have read a few reviews that back up about the problem of Nora Jones sounding the same with SACD and CD

Gotcha!

On another note, I now know that my 805 has a problem with 'Pure Audio' and 'Direct'..
When one of those are selected, it all sounds like sh!t. When I first use those, I was just thinking that I didn't like how it sounded, but then I heard another 805 and they use 'Pure Audio' and it was amazing.

That is weird! ...But then, did you listened to the exact same recording?
With the same speakers? In the same room? ...From the same listener, you?

I don't hate my 805, but now I am pissed that it is like this. I am going to have to check out a place that repair AVR's to fix this.

You'd better not hate it! ...I don't know if being pissed will get you some kind of fix from repairing what could be absolutely nothing!
Anyway HAMP, I hope you know what you're doing.
That would be the first time ever that I heard an Onkyo 805 is problematic when using the "Pure Audio" and "Direct" audio mode!

[HAMP]

I don't think I have to go into the whole story, but I have tried those two sound fields before and I just didn't like them.

They do not sound like any stereo or nice sounding audio from anything, they sound like a 'AM' radio station. I mean just bad, it would not take a minor adjustment to correct, there is something seriously wrong.

Why do I say this,

I was listening to another 805 and I was going to select 'Multi-channel' and I couldn't find it, so the guy said hold on, and push the 'Direct Audio' and you should have seen my eyes.....

As you already know, it was amazing, totally amazing, but not mine, something is just wrong. Unless there is a setting I 'F-uped' somewhere.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

The CD layer is recorded using DSD, so it still sounds better than the regular CD version.

I think if anything a 16-bit/44.1kHz source would sound identical whether you used DSD or PCM.

Did you mean to say "The SACD layer is recorded using DSD"?

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by HAMP

As you already know, it was amazing, totally amazing, but not mine, something is just wrong. Unless there is a setting I 'F-uped' somewhere.

I would definitely get it looked at. You may notice a big difference in bass response going from "STEREO" to "PURE AUDIO" because you're missing the SVS in the soundfield, but you should still get a nice sound through just the Monitor Audio bookshelves in PURE AUDIO.

I only use PURE AUDIO for SACD's and vinyl. When listening to CD's or any other stereo sources (DVD-A) I will use STEREO so that my Servo 15v2 is taking care of the low end. I prefer PURE AUDIO for SACD because then there is no PCM conversion and to me the sonic benefits outweigh the lack of deep, deep subsonic bass. My Monitor 11v4's get down to around 35Hz quite well and are +/-2dB to 48Hz so they handle stereo SACD and vinyl quite well.

Fortunately most of my SACD's are 5.1 so even in PURE AUDIO mode my Servo is happily employed. I have to use the crossover on the SUB when listening to SACD's though because in PURE AUDIO mode the crossover is bypassed and there's usually just a litle bit too much high frequency info coming into the LFE, particularly on Billy Joel's The Stranger. Setting it to around 70~80Hz works wonders though.

[doctorsteve]

Originally Posted by HAMP

I have read a few reviews that back up about the problem of Nora Jones sounding the same with SACD and CD

Then I rescind my comment that there should be an obvious difference I've been thrilled with MY purchases...

[doctorsteve]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I prefer PURE AUDIO for SACD because then there is no PCM conversion and to me the sonic benefits outweigh the lack of deep, deep subsonic bass.

Doby, what's the diff between Pure Audio and Direct? When I first set my Oinker up, I was missing pieces of audio until I switched to Direct. No problems since. It was playing Dark Side of the Moon - some of the clanging change on Money just weren't there! Somebody suggested only using Direct and I've not had any apparent problems since.

What's the benefit of Pure Audio, and what sources would it be ideal for?

Doc

[dobyblue]

It shuts off all video circuitry...but I think it's more important when you have component connections and such because the HDMI seems to pass through regardless of Pure Audio or not. When you're sending 1080p24 or 1080p60 I don't think any processing is involved anyway, it's strictly pass through.

Both PURE AUDIO and DIRECT will shut off all audio processing circuitry, but DIRECT leaves video circuitry on. I still choose PURE AUDIO when listening to SACD, as I like that it turns the display completely off and when I'm in the dark, it's just that much darker.



I got a little scared by the rising prices of OOP titles and managed to get a copy of More Hot Rocks on eBay shipped for US$32. Also picked up the following:

Bob Dylan - Oh Mercy (Amazon marketplace new - $20.99)
http://sa-cd.net/showtitle/2060

Dave Brubeck - Private Brubeck Remembers (Amazon marketplace new - $5.98)
http://sa-cd.net/showtitle/2060

Derek and Dominos - Layla (Amazon marketplace new - $15.69)
http://sa-cd.net/showtitle/2530

Bob Dylan - Blonde on Blonde (Multi-channel) (Amazon marketplace new - $13.39)
http://sa-cd.net/showtitle/1191

Mark Knopfler - Shangri-La (Amazon UK new - £7.12)
http://sa-cd.net/showtitle/2329

Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Requiem (Mackerras) (Amazon Canada new - $21.99)
http://sa-cd.net/showtitle/1162

Moody Blues - Days of Future Passed (Amazon Canada new - $29.92)
http://sa-cd.net/showtitle/3665

When I look through my collection at what some of my titles are worth it pains me that I didn't have two copies...but not as much as it pains me that the title went OOP to begin with so other people can't get it for $21.99

My collection - http://sa-cd.net/library/3163/1

[ManUtd]

Doby the link to your collection doesn't work.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by ManUtd

Doby the link to your collection doesn't work.

I believe you have to be logged into http://www.sa-cd.net to see anyone's library.

(Just checked, I'm able to see The Seventh Taylor's library but if I log out I cannot)

Oh and I just added "twentysomething" multi-channel SACD by Jamie Cullum after spotting it in Seventh Taylor's library. I enjoy the album a lot whenever my wife puts it on in the car, now I need the SACD.

New from importcd's on Amazon Marketplace for US$15.98 - easy decision.

[ManUtd]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I believe you have to be logged into your own profile to see another's collection don't you?

I didn't sign up there but I remember seeing the collection of another member here.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

It shuts off all video circuitry...but I think it's more important when you have component connections and such because the HDMI seems to pass through regardless of Pure Audio or not. When you're sending 1080p24 or 1080p60 I don't think any processing is involved anyway, it's strictly pass through.

Both PURE AUDIO and DIRECT will shut off all audio processing circuitry, but DIRECT leaves video circuitry on. I still choose PURE AUDIO when listening to SACD, as I like that it turns the display completely off and when I'm in the dark, it's just that much darker.



I got a little scared by the rising prices of OOP titles and managed to get a copy of More Hot Rocks on eBay shipped for US$32. Also picked up the following:

Bob Dylan - Oh Mercy (Amazon marketplace new - $20.99)
http://sa-cd.net/showtitle/2060

Dave Brubeck - Private Brubeck Remembers (Amazon marketplace new - $5.98)
http://sa-cd.net/showtitle/2060

Derek and Dominos - Layla (Amazon marketplace new - $15.69)
http://sa-cd.net/showtitle/2530

Bob Dylan - Blonde on Blonde (Multi-channel) (Amazon marketplace new - $13.39)
http://sa-cd.net/showtitle/1191

Mark Knopfler - Shangri-La (Amazon UK new - £7.12)
http://sa-cd.net/showtitle/2329

Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Requiem (Mackerras) (Amazon Canada new - $21.99)
http://sa-cd.net/showtitle/1162

Moody Blues - Days of Future Passed (Amazon Canada new - $29.92)
http://sa-cd.net/showtitle/3665

When I look through my collection at what some of my titles are worth it pains me that I didn't have two copies...but not as much as it pains me that the title went OOP to begin with so other people can't get it for $21.99

My collection - http://sa-cd.net/library/3163/1

Nice score on those SACD's Steve!

John

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by ManUtd

I didn't sign up there but I remember seeing the collection of another member here.

Not sure how they did it, when I log out I can't even see my own library.

Originally Posted by John72953

Nice score on those SACD's Steve!

John

Thanks buddy! Had to grab them before they all go OOP. Quite a frustrating situation.

[PanaPlasma]

Anybody here understanding Japanese?

I want to order an sacd through a Japanese site, but I can't translate the register page with Google Translate, so I am unable to register my name, address, visa,... etc.

I'm sure many people will be interested in those titles (especially at this price, at ebay it costs at least 10x more)

Thanks!

[ManUtd]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Not sure how they did it, when I log out I can't even see my own library.

Don't know what to say, if I click on PanaPlasma's link it works.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by ManUtd

Don't know what to say, if I click on PanaPlasma's link it works.

Yeah it works for me too when I'm unlogged.

But my library disappears when I logout. I wonder if it's because I only just added it on Friday? I don't know, I'll PM Seventh Taylor.

[doctorsteve]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

It shuts off all video circuitry...

Thanks Dob

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I think if anything a 16-bit/44.1kHz source would sound identical whether you used DSD or PCM.

Did you mean to say "The SACD layer is recorded using DSD"?

No no, most hybrid SACDs have a PCM layer using DSD recorders, so they sound better than the regular CD version, it's true, it has been said and I personally confirmed it.

Telarc and Sony, and DMP and many other recording labels are using the DSD recorders to encode their regular CDs. You probably know about that. And they do sound better than the previous CD mastering, recorded from some Sony recorders and others from various formats, but always on PCM, just some variations on encoding, resolution and bit rate. ...But it always end up to be PCM 16-bit/44.1 Khz at the end on our players.
But Studio recordings like Chesky do encode at 24-bit/96 Khz for their regular CDs, and others use the HDCD encoders. ...And others record their Gold CDs on 20-Bit Mastering processors.

There are various audio quality and differences from the regular PCM CDs, and DSD is a more open and clearer result than the older Sony encoders. I ain't talking about SACD here, but always about CD.

* And for SACD, as you are well awared, there are also various methods to encode them from various masters, and some are much better than others.

When you shop for Music, you first look for the artist you like, then you should check for the recording engineer and the encoder he is using. ...I even check for the studio where the artist was recorded. And the microphones too are important, so are the monitor speakers, and the quality of the mixer (console), the studio wall's treatments, the quality of the wiring, the instruments of course, and all that JAZZ.