Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut (1980)

[WickyWoo]

It SIGNIFIGANTLY improves it

It's a very very different film. The pacing is radically different, different takes, different reaction shots, tons of new scenes, and virtually all the goofy stuff has been removed. Marlon Brando restored. IMO the Lester cut should be burned and never seen again. It's not his movie, it never was and he ruined it (with lots of help from the Salkinds)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjEE66NuMqQ

Too bad they're only vanilla DD 5.1

[CptGreedle]

My personal pinion after watching this is... don't.
It was awful. I don't care what the original director wanted to do but never did, too much of it is identical to the original movie, and too much of it does not match properly. Things do not seem to be in order, and the story has been changed greatly. Sure the PQ and AQ is good, but the edits and such are not. Even as a stand alone film, the chronology of this goes out of whack and it repeats major events from the first film.
It was a waste of money for me. I hated it since I was expecting the same movie I remember watching as a kid and growing up with, but instead getting a completely reworked movie that looses all coherency.

I hope they release the theatrical version soon cause I want to watch the cut I grew up with.

[Quad]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

It SIGNIFIGANTLY improves it

It's a very very different film.

Too bad they're only vanilla DD 5.1

Ill take that into consideration as well, thanks.

[ehorrell]

I agree with Wicky - big improvement! You kind of have to be forgiving of a few inconsistencies due to the nature of the films creation. Otherwise, its much better than the theatrical cut.

The BDs aren't that great but they look better than the DVDs.

[CptGreedle]

/rant

*-*-*Spoiler Alert!*-*-*







In the new cut, the same exact ending is used as the first movie, without regard that it is in the first movie still. It makes Superman look like a one trick pony. This also makes other HUGE problems with the story. He goes back in time to make everyone forget who he is, and yet the rest of the events seem to have happened all the same, now it seems like a selective time travel. Even the seen in the bar with the fight makes no sense since the guy who beat him up in the first seen would not know who he is if he went back in time, but everyone recognized him all the same. Some changes were too small to make a difference, others were to big and not needed at all. I missed some of the better parts of the original cut such as the way Louis finds out about how he is superman. In the new one, she tricks him by shooting him with a blank.. she SHOOTS CLARK with a blank! Ridiculous! And worse, he didn't notice it was not a real bullet. You'd think he's have at least felt it!










/rant

[WickyWoo]

SPOILER

If you listen to the commentary, it's explained why they chose to maintain the original ending

I'll agree the second barfight doesn't make any sense

[CptGreedle]

I did, and yet to me it was pointless. It should have been done with something else that would have fixed the main problem but leave the rest alone.

To me it felt like a cheap fix that did not belong there.
It was especially bad after watching the first movie right before it.

[u_nick]

I consider the Theatrical and Donner cuts two different films. I cant say I love one more than the other. I like them both equally I think.

Seeing it on Blu I found it to be the best it ever looked, for me personally at least (I wear glasses for distance).

I'm a pretty huge Superman fan too though, so I may be biased.

[CptGreedle]

They are indeed 2 different films.
And the reason I did not return the Donner cut is because I hope one day to purchase the theatrical cut and watch it, even compare the two.

Perhaps I am just used to the movie I saw growing up, but I know I would buy a theatrical cut if/when they release it.

[u_nick]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

Perhaps I am just used to the movie I saw growing up, but I know I would buy a theatrical cut if/when they release it.

My thoughts exactly. I dont know if the theatrical is only in my heart for the sake of nostalgia or not, but I would still LOVE to own it on Blu.

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

If you listen to the commentary, it's explained why they chose to maintain the original ending

I'll agree the second barfight doesn't make any sense

Also, Marlon's right--The increased focus on Supe's whole "Why don't I get some Me time?" subplot does sound unsympathetically whiny and selfish, which reduces the entire movie to another self-pitying "Spiderman 2".

Which at least had a good villain as plot-relief, but here, as Hackman's Luthor perfectly sums it up, "You guys need a new act--'Bow, yield, kneel', that stuff closes in Pittsburgh!"

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by Quad

I was wondering if that was worth getting. Without giving away any spoilers is it better than the original theatrical version?

Yes. Infinitely.

I found the Lester cut to be far too cartoony in its execution. Over the top, really. Donner's was lighter, more playful, more character-oriented, and just generally better.

[Clark Kent]

Having seen the original Superman 2 dozens of time, my preferred cut of the movie is the theatrical cut. But the Donner cut is very interesting and almost feels like a totally different movie at times. I like it very much but I didn't grow up with it so it's never going to replace the original for me. I think if anyone likes Superman they need to get the current BD. But Warner has to release the original theatrical cut also on BD. I will be very disappointed if Warner has shelved that version permanently. Hopefully with a PCM soundtrack...

[Eddie who?]

I thought the Donner cut was horrible too. I loved the original movie, but the sequel was trash. I dont condone what Lester and the Salkinds did to Donner, but the Lester cut was much better. I attended a screening of the Donner cut with Margot Kidder at a fundraiser event and was stunned at how much I hated this version. Cpt. Greedle is right on this one.

On another note, I refuse to pick these up, or any WB movie for that matter, until they put PCM soundtracks on their films. If the HP films didn't have it, then I wouldnt be buying them either.

[blukrank]

I just order Superman 1 and II on Amazon that deal is to good to pass up.Superman on Blu is a must for me as it's one of my favorite movies. And I also order The Polar Express and my total price was $33.95. Pretty cool deal.
Yeah I had these 3 movies on HD DVD but I got rid of them as I'm pure Blu now. I thought the picture quality of Superman 1 and 2 on the HD DVD version was very good with 2 being the best looking. I thought the Donner cut was a mixed bag.There was some things I liked and somethings I did not like.

[Seretur]

I'll probably end up buying the two due to the BOGO. (Can't say for sure, as my Christmas funds are getting depleted fast.) The Donner Cut is a half-baked thing out of necessity, but at least it's not the travesty that Lester created; he was the Joel Schumacher of the Superman franchise, and quite likely worse (as Joel has made some good films in his time).

Now for the $64K question -- can anyone, anyone tell me if the Superman Returns included in this BOGO is the new version with lossless audio?

Muchas gracias in advance.

[BStecke]

I am in the boat that thinks the Lester version of Superman 2 should be burned. Awful dialog and even more awful made up powers (what's up with the celophane S shield that can be peeled from his chest and used to imprison people? How lame is that? And the teleporting!?) absolutely destroy the film. I prefer the Donner cut to the Lester cut, by far. I actually grew up on a version of this film that was dubbed off of ABC when it was aired that had a good amount of Donner scenes put back in, and didn't see the theatrical version until 2001 when the first DVD box set came out. I haven't watched it since. The only scene I missed from the Lester cut was Clark's first transformation into Superman where he's running through the alley and they do the blurred costume change and the take off, all in one seamless shot. I always loved that.

In regards to the ending . . . the "turning back the Earth" ending was originally going to be used for Superman 2. It was slapped onto Superman 1 because they didn't want to leave it hanging in case it failed at the box office. So you can't really say that this is "cheap" or a cop out, because it was intended to be this way before even Superman: The Movie was released. If you want to get nitpicky, Superman the Movie, with this new version in existence, is actually the one that is incorrect. The use of the time travel eliminates the TOTALLY ridiculous "kiss that makes you forget everything that happened throughout the whole movie"" ending, which was another made up power that was completely and utterly digusting.

That's my opinion . . . I grew up reading Superman comics and loving Superman: The Movie, and the Donner cut is more in line with that movie . . . the theatrical version of 2, and then any version of 3 and 4 are, at least to this Superman fan, a total disregard for any respect to the character.


In short though . . . buy it, it's great!

[WickyWoo]

Yes, the way Superman was supposed to end was the rocket that he chucks into space busts the Phantom Zone, and the movie ends with them flying toward Earth "TO BE CONTINUED......"

[quote]The Donner Cut is a half-baked thing out of necessity, but at least it's not the travesty that Lester created; he was the Joel Schumacher of the Superman franchise, and quite likely worse (as Joel has made some good films in his time).

So has Lester.

As the story goes, the Salkinds owed him for another movie, and said "well, if you finish this one for us, we'll pay you for both" so he said sure. Lester grew up in a house where comics were banned, and had no feel or affinity for the character and of course it showed. The Salkinds never wanted a "film", they wanted a movie closer to the old Batman show (see Superman 3). I don't blame Lester, I blame the Salkinds for firing the guy who cared and made the ma pile of money

Now for the $64K question -- can anyone, anyone tell me if the Superman Returns included in this BOGO is the new version with lossless audio?

Total crapshoot, no way to be sure

[wnicholas76]

I just watched "Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut" on Blu-ray last night, and I must say that even I thought that this original vision of Superman II by Richard Donner was, in a way, 10 times better -- and more superior -- than the original theatrical version from 1980! And the picture quality was brilliant as always from Warner Bros. Even though there is just a Dolby Digital 5.1 track on the disc, it still sounded amazing! This movie was the easiest $19.99 I've ever spent!

If anyone else has this version of "Superman II" on Blu-ray, tell me what you thought about it also. Thanks!

[DetroitSportsFan]

I agree, I preferred the Donner cut as well.