Willow (1988) - 20th Century Fox & Buena Vista/Disney releases

[kdo]

Originally Posted by Havenbull

I recently ran into an old girlfriend from 25 years ago...
She didn't look the same, and that's not how I remembered her

Originally Posted by mjcavinder

Just ask her to take a DNR bath with you(she might look waxy, but younger)

Originally Posted by 42041

This isn't just me speaking for myself though, there's quite a bit of published research on the matter. Color is something (normal) humans neither perceive (as in, there's a lot of psychovisual processing the brain does on the color balance of what it sees) nor encode into memory very precisely. Even in the short term, people can remember something is, say, red, but recollection of the specific shade of red is pretty sketchy.

To qualify my comment about not remembering how theatrical screenings look: for example, I saw a gorgeous print of Magnolia and compared it to my blu-ray after I got back from the screening. It was closer than many transfers of pre-digital films tend to be, but I remember a very distinct difference. Now, a handful of months later? I can still confidently say that the BD is in the ballpark, and I would certainly be able to tell what's closer to the screening if there was another disc with a comparably large difference as this Willow one, but I couldn't possibly tell you what that difference actually was. That's usually how it goes: I remember the broad details (ie, it was saturated, high-contrast, razor sharp) but not the specific hues and tones.

(I've got absolutely no idea about Willow, mind you)

See, I said you were a "smart guy" ...

Yes, much of what you're saying here is very true...and I agree. And again, I never intended for my opinion regarding the new Blu-ray of "Willow" to go off on this tangent. As I previously stated, it's only my opinion, and while I'm perfectly content with it, I'm not expecting others to agree with me.

Originally Posted by retablo

It's still humorous to me, people watching the blu then comparing it to a 12 year old DVD that's less likely to be accurate than the new blu-ray is, then declaring the new version incorrect. Makes for great comedy.

As far as I've seen, nobody on the board has declared the new Blu-ray version incorrect (or the DVD for that matter). I did say that the DVD much more closely resembles the theatrical experience I recall, but that's not stating one release is correct and the other isn't...Perhaps it really was the original intent of Lucas and Howard for many of the scenes to display skies completely devoid of clouds and color, and have them instead appear as white as the light of a strobe-flash resulting from the initial blast of a thermonuclear weapon (and they put the clouds and blue color in the sky of the original DVD just to throw people off, so that way, 10 years later, people would appreciate the Blu-ray all the more )...who knows ? And maybe, for the "Making of Willow" documentary that was done back in 1988, which shows clips of Cherlindrea from the film (appearing as glowing "white" as I recall her in the theater, and every other home-video format I've ever seen), they intentionally altered her to be "white" just for that publicity release, so that when people went to the theater and saw her as such they could yell out to the rest of the audience members: "Hey, she's supposed to be "gold," and you're not supposed to be able to see her all that well...oh, that's right, this presentation is all wrong...it won't be corrected for another 25 years when the film is properly released on Blu-ray! Looks like we'll just have to wait everybody, lets go get our money back at the ticket-window!"

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I read that study, but that's not how I remember it.

Originally Posted by mjcavinder

[SGB]

Originally Posted by mjcavinder

Just ask her to take a DNR bath with you(she might look waxy, but younger)

[mjcavinder]

He looks All Natural right?

[kdo]

Originally Posted by mjcavinder

[Show spoiler]He looks All Natural right?

Yes, about as much as Schwarzenegger did on the "Predator: UHE"...

[mjcavinder]

As I watch the episode yesterday's enterprise from Star Trek The Next Generation...I have a feeling that some people remember like Guinan does.

[kdo]

Originally Posted by mjcavinder

[Show spoiler]As I watch the episode yesterday's enterprise from Star Trek The Next Generation...I have a feeling that some people remember like Guinan does.

[unsung122212]

I didn't mean to derail the thread with the whole memory thing. This is more talk about one's memory recollection. Read/ignore is up to you.

[Show spoiler] I just wanted people to know that it is possible for one to remember something with pristine detail after 25 years. Besides photographic memory, memory is always going to be subjective and only the most important detail will be kept intact longer than most details. It is why after an accident some can't remember every detail of the accident, due to the amount light that the eyes are interpreting and the chaotic nature of the accident; only the most important detail, to the individual, are retain so out brains doesn't go into an overload. A person for all intent and purposes remembers the film exactly the way he perceived while at the theater or ball game. That perception of what one remembers is subjective to the individual. kdo perceived his theater experience a little differently then what he saw on the bluray release. That doesn't make things right or wrong with how the exact look of the film was. We all perceive the rays of light which our eyes interpret differently. Our minds and understanding of things and what color is what also changes throughout life. Not everyone is going to know all the shades of colors that the human race has define, but it is still a big difference between remember something that was white to that something being gold.

[mjcavinder]

Did anyone see Willow in a IMAX Theater? (in 1989)

by the way The Beatles looked soo young after DNR....

[Show spoiler]

[Love Blu-Ray]

Originally Posted by mjcavinder

He looks All Natural right?

He looks like a wax person, that looks terrible

[Horror_Chase]

Did this title come with the $8 of coupon as well, like Life of Pie and Hitchcock?

[Bluyoda]

Glad the price dropped to $14.99 again. This time I placed an order, along with the ILM book: The Art of Innovation.

Looking forward to seeing this again, after watching it once on VHS in 1998.

I hope it's exactly as I remember it.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by retablo

It's still humorous to me, people watching the blu then comparing it to a 12 year old DVD that's less likely to be accurate than the new blu-ray is, then declaring the new version incorrect. Makes for great comedy.

Ecactly! This happens all the time. People, perhaps by default, just use the dvd as the benchmark.

[KrugStillo]

Honestly I think people are going to be dissapointed with every new retransfered release that comes out. I will explain why this could be so. Personally I can live with this but purists seem to not be able to and they usually don't attribute it to the proper reason. Anyway, if Willow was actually transfered from the negative (not sure if it was but some new releases are)then it would need to be color timed to try and match the original theatrical intent. However, modern digital tools can get close but they are not quite able to match that warm tone that was most likely due to a chemical color timing process from back in the day. This warm look is looked upon fondly by film purists and they tend to think that color grading technicians are just applying a modern standard. I, however, think they are doing the best they can to get that look that we all (or some anyway) remember but the digital equivalent is not quite the same and it tends to bleed over everything instead of just staying where it is meant to be in the color scheme. This would explain why folks say sky's aren't as blue (and etc.) because the chemical process didn't reak as much havoc with overall image as the digital process does. I guess if moretime was put into something they may be able to get closer but in most cases we are lucky to even get a new transfer that's not slathered with dnr. There is a look to older films that have a chemical color timing process that digital tool (try as they may) can't quite achieve but let's face facts. Studios are not gonna revert back to old school processes just to please a handful of people. In general they will do whatever is cost effective and try to make us think it looks like it used to. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. That's my take on the whole debate. Personally I'm fine with Willow and I thoroughly enjoyed seeing it again. To each his own I guess.

[eastx]

Originally Posted by Oblivion138

Exactly. In fact, each time you subconsciously embellish or alter a memory (which is unavoidable), the next time you remember it, what you recall is actually the flawed memory...not the original event. And even that is altered ever-so-slightly with each subsequent recall. Over time, this becomes like a game of Telephone that you play with yourself. A memory will be at least marginally altered each and every time you recall it. You will never play back precisely the same memory as you did the last time, let alone an exact reproduction of the actual event. Memory is vastly overrated and really quite flawed. And when it comes to things like color, memory is downright awful.

Agreed. And the film looks great on Blu-Ray - worlds above the old DVD, even if it's not perfect.

[vocalhouse]

More on memory ...

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by lcummins

Scientists have proven that memory is faulty, even right after an event has occurred. People mis-remember things even when they know they will be tested. Memory cannot be trusted 100%, especially after a long period of time as almost everyone tends to embellish memories through the years (unintentionally) and those memories become stronger each time.

Originally Posted by Oblivion138

Exactly. In fact, each time you subconsciously embellish or alter a memory (which is unavoidable), the next time you remember it, what you recall is actually the flawed memory...not the original event. And even that is altered ever-so-slightly with each subsequent recall. Over time, this becomes like a game of Telephone that you play with yourself. A memory will be at least marginally altered each and every time you recall it. You will never play back precisely the same memory as you did the last time, let alone an exact reproduction of the actual event. Memory is vastly overrated and really quite flawed. And when it comes to things like color, memory is downright awful.

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I read that study, but that's not how I remember it.

Originally Posted by unsung122212

I didn't mean to derail the thread with the whole memory thing. This is more talk about one's memory recollection. Read/ignore is up to you.

[Show spoiler] I just wanted people to know that it is possible for one to remember something with pristine detail after 25 years. Besides photographic memory, memory is always going to be subjective and only the most important detail will be kept intact longer than most details. It is why after an accident some can't remember every detail of the accident, due to the amount light that the eyes are interpreting and the chaotic nature of the accident; only the most important detail, to the individual, are retain so out brains doesn't go into an overload. A person for all intent and purposes remembers the film exactly the way he perceived while at the theater or ball game. That perception of what one remembers is subjective to the individual. kdo perceived his theater experience a little differently then what he saw on the bluray release. That doesn't make things right or wrong with how the exact look of the film was. We all perceive the rays of light which our eyes interpret differently. Our minds and understanding of things and what color is what also changes throughout life. Not everyone is going to know all the shades of colors that the human race has define, but it is still a big difference between remember something that was white to that something being gold.

I'm sorry unsung, but our eyes do not interpret anything. In addition, the "only the most important detail are retained" statement is also false. As others (lcummins, oblivion) have pointed out, our brains are not like DVRs. Indeed, psychologists have been studying memory for decades and have come to the conclusion that our memory is faulty at best. This has had repercussions, especially in the criminal justice system where people have been falsely imprisoned because of faulty eyewitness testimony, made up memories (aka false memories), etc. Dr. Elizabeth Loftus is one of the foremost experts on this and has published quite a bit on this phenomenon. For example, Loftus & Palmer (1974) showed that the words used when questioning eyewitnesses influence their responses. Here is a more recent article that covers some memory myths. Indeed, even the discussion of color timing, etc. in this thread may influence our memories of Willow.

Sorry to sound so pompous.

[Thomas Guycott]

I saw this movie only once in the theater when I was six and all I remember is that the Eborsisk at the end was just loud as all hell.

Might be nice to revisit, but I'd have to do a rental first.

[kdo]

Does anyone know why the MGM logo is displayed at the beginning of playback? I thought that was odd

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by kdo

Does anyone know why the MGM logo is displayed at the beginning of playback? I thought that was odd

MGM was one of the production companies and was the US theatrical distributor.

[kdo]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

MGM was one of the production companies and was the US theatrical distributor.

Thanks .

[mjcavinder]

I have to say that Most people do Not adjust their HDTV color/brightness/contrast etc. there are many settings that you have to adjust. presets are always wrong, everyone has their own preference, finding that is key. I have found that the color is always turned really high.

Just to name a few settings...
-color temperature
-Adv. contrast enhancer
-gamma
-clear white
-live color
-noise reduction
-backlight
-hue
Have you ever adjusted your TV settings?