Blu-ray going 1440p and 50Mbs + bitrate ?

[Chevypower]

There must be some confusion. 1440 usually refers to the horizontal resolution (not the vertical). HDV and XDCAM HD have 1080x1440 resolution. How? Non-square pixels (stretched). 1080x1920 of course is square pixels and much better. If there is a 1440 vertical, I haven't heard of it, and don't really see the point until (IF) BD or it's replacement is natively encoded in that resolution.

[IMind]

A couple of things... I think 1440p simply comes from someone doubling 720p.

That being said... if any really thinks that some CE manufacturer wont try to introduce some kind of artificial upgrade path above 1080p then you're insane. I wouldn't be surprised to see a CE manufacturer at least propose a higher than 1080p display with an upscaling Blu-ray player.

I really think you'll see something at least aimed at the high end home theater enthusiast. Super high resolution projector and Blu-ray upscaling.

Do I think we'll ever see as wide a push as we've seen for 1080p in the near future? I doubt it. Will we see higher resolution displays? Absolutely. Look at where the gaming industry is on the PC. High end video cards have been at higher resolutions than 1080p for years... You will absolutely see large gaming displays with higher resolution than 1080p.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Chevypower

There must be some confusion. 1440 usually refers to the horizontal resolution (not the vertical). HDV and XDCAM HD have 1080x1440 resolution. How? Non-square pixels (stretched). 1080x1920 of course is square pixels and much better. If there is a 1440 vertical, I haven't heard of it, and don't really see the point until (IF) BD or it's replacement is natively encoded in that resolution.

A 1440p TV would be 1440 pixels tall x 2560 pixels wide. There is one already in the market (actually 1600 x 2560) and you can plug your BD player and have BDs upscaled into 1440 x 2560 by the HQV chip. For example, you could watch Scope movies upscaled into 1080 x 2560 and leave standard widescreen ones at 1080 x 1920 1:1 and see both formats in their proper theatrical size "'relationship". Too bad is 30".

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

"SIGH"!! My god, 1080p is GOOD ENOUGH! Why is anyone even thinking about 1440p???

And others say:

Everything should be full-frame not OAR
Grain should be scrubbed from all movies

I say:

Let's allow people to have opinions.

Gary

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by tron3

1440p is just buzz work going around right now. We won't see 1140p any time soon, let alone content that supports it. Don't get your panties in a bunch.

The new 150" Panasonic plasma is 2160p.

The reality is the 1080p set makers will soon need the big buzz to differentiate their offerings from cheap Chinese no-name panels.

Needed or not, it will come, and sooner than you think.

Why did pretty much every CRT RPTV have scan velocity modulation when every expert told you to turn it off?

Gary

[cj-kent]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

Does anyone even have a 1440p TV?

Seriously. If it can, it will. If not.. who cares! 1080p is so close to 2k it is already better than movie theaters.
If it is even possible, it won't happen for a long time. 1080 is the standard (and 720), and you will be hard pressed to find content bigger than that.

1080p is wonderful on home displays and since that is the limit of all our displays, if not 1080i, then the point is moot. However, as beautiful as 1080p is, it is not anywhere near the resolution of real film and it's only half the resolution of 2k. The theater still wins.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by cj-kent

1080p is wonderful on home displays and since that is the limit of all our displays, if not 1080i, then the point is moot. However, as beautiful as 1080p is, it is not anywhere near the resolution of real film and it's only half the resolution of 2k. The theater still wins.

2K/4K refer to 2048 and 4096 HORIZONTAL pixel formats.

2K is approximate to 1920x1080 HD.

Gary

[wallendo]

Projectors and displays will likely soon be more advanced than 1080p, but I doubt that any mainstream consumer MEDIA will go beyond this limit any time soon. The studios probably don't want to go back to the multiple format days (I can remember when some movies were released in VHS, VHS-letterboxed, Beta, Beta letterboxed, Super Beta, Super Beta letterboxed, S-VHS and S-VHS letterboxed, as well as laser disc)

Most people with higher than 1080p resolution monitors will have to settle for upconverted (or super-upconverted) content. We may see 3-D discs at some point, but I don't see the studios producing 4K consumer content any time soon. In fact, I suspect that SD DVD will be around for a long time, since many people are happy with its appearance. In fact, I believe that the Profile 1.1 and 2 enhancements may play as much of a role in BR replacing DVD as Picture Quality - do not underestimate the importance of PIP, pop-up menus, etc. Manufacturers have successfully been pushing PIP capable TV's for years, but I doubt that many owners of PIP sets actually use PIP.

I also don't think you can predict the future simply by extrapolating the past. I wonder if future home media may actually be resolution independent - the image will be described in some fashion other that individual dots.

[MGDTH]

I Think using 1440p is only for pro use, I dont see any place for 1440 in consumer electronics, threads like this are also quite pointless because 1080p is beyond enough, Even the top HDTV sets cant display 1080p in its prime motion resolution, top sets can do 600-800lines @ motion, so maybe threads like this should concentrate on improving the transfers for movies.

for example: the fact that Michael Bay oversees most of his masters and transfers makes me really hope that we would concentrate on pumping all the juice out of the current tech, not to run after gimmicks like 1440p


Also the the fact that peoples take 1080p stunningly sharp even on screens beyond than 100 inches makes wonder wheres the place for 1440p.

not to sound like bill gates "640K ought to be enough for anybody. "

sources: read motion resolution
http://hdguru.com/?p=187

"taken from hdguru"

[HeavyHitter]

My guess is we'll have very large displays and primarily projectors which will simply upscale 1080p to 4K as a first step. Who knows how long for 4K source material though.

[tron3]

Originally Posted by IMind

A couple of things... I think 1440p simply comes from someone doubling 720p.
....

I'll confess. I was among the first, if not THE first, to make such a statement.
Someone else came up with 2160p by doubling 1080P. Now THAT is just ridicules without an 8 foot screen.

Actually, 1440p is totally possible with todays bandwith if you allocate the video stream into two 720p pictures, and join them at the TV tuner end.

I have explained before but I shall again. "Old" HDTV tuners will see the first half, the 720p portion. Therefore able to accept the broadcast. But only newer 1440p HD tuners will even see the specially encrypted 720P portion which makes up the second part of the picture on a 1440p tv.

[syncguy]

There is a limit to the screen size in home environments which is restricted by typical real estate dimensions. Therefore, there is a limit to the maximum screen resolution that can be used effectively. Increasing the pixel count beyond a certain point in a typical home configuration would not be effective. 1080p may not be that break point but I can say it is very close to that point. IMO, blu-ray can deliver a stunning picture with incredible detail even on a very large screen. Therefore, it may not be economical to further develop consumer technologies to boost resolution and marginally(?) improve perceivable picture quality until economies permits to do so (i.e. until resolution-enhancement is economical enough so that it can be sold cheaply to the mass market). Therefore, I think the blu-ray technology will have a long life, perhaps few decades.

However, theaters are a different matter. Those screens are large, very large, hence they can easily make a perceivable difference to the picture quality by enhancing resolution.

[Kirsty_Mc]

There is an article on the subject of Ultra HD, link as follows:-

http://www.hdtvuk.tv/2008/04/ultra_hd_coming.html

Apparently this article is based upon the thoughts of someone at Phillips. Looks like the combi player won't be BD/HD-DVD but BD/Holographic (or similar) .

[reider]

Originally Posted by tron3

I'll confess. I was among the first, if not THE first, to make such a statement.
Someone else came up with 2160p by doubling 1080P. Now THAT is just ridicules without an 8 foot screen.

Actually, 1440p is totally possible with todays bandwith if you allocate the video stream into two 720p pictures, and join them at the TV tuner end.

I have explained before but I shall again. "Old" HDTV tuners will see the first half, the 720p portion. Therefore able to accept the broadcast. But only newer 1440p HD tuners will even see the specially encrypted 720P portion which makes up the second part of the picture on a 1440p tv.

I am confused... Wouldn't 1440P be four times the 720P?

[Kirsty_Mc]

Originally Posted by reider

I am confused... Wouldn't 1440P be four times the 720P?

1440P would give 2560 x 1440 pixels on the screen (assuming that the 16:9 aspect ratio was retained) = 3.69 million pixels visible.

1080P = 1920 x 1080 = 2.07 million pixels visible.

720P = 1280 x 720 = 0.92 million pixels visible.

So 1440P would indeed give four times the resolution of as 720P display.

IMO however the best way to improve resolution for a new format would be to alter the aspect ratio to 2.35:1, that way a scope movie would gain the benefit of the full pixel height. 16:9 was really only chosen as it was an economical aspect ratio for the manufacture of CRT displays. 16:9 also matched the format that Canaletto favoured giving it some artistic credibility.

Now that the CRT is dead (or dying), there is no longer any reason not to expand the width of a future HD format.

[IMind]

Originally Posted by reider

I am confused... Wouldn't 1440P be four times the 720P?

You're over thinking. I'm talking stupid consumer math: 720 x 2 = 1440.

[reider]

I am curious about something that probably anybody familiar with video compression could answer.
If each four consecutive frames from 720p24 were combined into one 1440p frame to create 1440p6, would that arrangement affect the compression yields? For better or for worse?

[Mermen79]

Originally Posted by syncguy

There is a limit to the screen size in home environments which is restricted by typical real estate dimensions. Therefore, there is a limit to the maximum screen resolution that can be used effectively. Increasing the pixel count beyond a certain point in a typical home configuration would not be effective. 1080p may not be that break point but I can say it is very close to that point. IMO, blu-ray can deliver a stunning picture with incredible detail even on a very large screen. Therefore, it may not be economical to further develop consumer technologies to boost resolution and marginally(?) improve perceivable picture quality until economies permits to do so (i.e. until resolution-enhancement is economical enough so that it can be sold cheaply to the mass market). Therefore, I think the blu-ray technology will have a long life, perhaps few decades.

However, theaters are a different matter. Those screens are large, very large, hence they can easily make a perceivable difference to the picture quality by enhancing resolution.

Ding, ding, ding! Best response so far. I don't think resolution beyond 1080P will develop for the masses (at least for a VERY LONG time) because most homes don't have television screens that are huge enough to benefit much at all. Seems like it will only be for professional use in editing and later theatrical release.

[cj-kent]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

2K/4K refer to 2048 and 4096 HORIZONTAL pixel formats.

2K is approximate to 1920x1080 HD.

Gary

That's interesting. Thanks for the info. That explains why I occasionally can detect some moire effect during the movies at my local Cinemark.

I was misinformed about that.

[Gavin Von Karls]

Originally Posted by unreal1080p

Read below to find out WHY it's not silly:

10 reasons why nothing better then Blu-Ray is coming before 2050:

1) Transition from VHS/Laserdisc to DVD happened because:
-there had to be a transition from ANALOG to DIGITAL (both VHS & Laserdisc were analog formats)
-there had to be a transition to a more portable practical format (as opposed to huge ass Laserdisc and clunky VHS cassettes).

2) Transition from DVD to Blu-Ray had to happen because of the new broadcast standard that is HDTV

3) There are NO MORE valid reasons to transition to another format now

4) The next valid reason will ONLY happen when a new broadcast standard is established in North America and we are barely at the infancy of the HDTV era.

5) The next broadcast standard is Super Hi-Vision (8K) and is NOT coming until 2040-2050 (in North America).

6) DOWNLOADS ARE NOT THE FUTURE! By the time downloads even become somewhat mainstream, Blu-Ray will have such an overwhelming presence and be so inexpensive that it will not be threatened by crappy quality downloads. By the time the quality of downloads reaches Blu-Ray quality (audio & video) Blu-Ray will simply SHARE a market with downloads (IMHO the VAST majority of the population will and ALWAYS will prefer a physicall format).

7) TV's in peoples homes are going to be 2K (1920 X 1080) for a very VERY long time. There is absolutely NO REASON for the masses to change their HDTV's until a new higher end broadcast standard is established.

8) The previous broadcast standard was established in 1950 and is still going strong today even though HDTV was introduced in 1998.



9) If DVD had came out in the early 60's... it would still be going strong today as their would have been NO REASON to change it for something else... EXACTLY the same reason why there will be NO reason to change Blu-Ray until approx 2050 when/if a new higher end broadcast standard becomes established in North America and a sufficient amount of homes have adopted new TV's supporting the new specification.

10) DVD's have been around for 10 years and will last another 10 until COMPLETELY being replaced by Blu-Ray. With Blu-Ray around as the highest quality form of movie media for the next 40 years, I believe it will take an additional 20 years for it to go away even after the introduction of something better... 2050 + 20 = 2070... making the lifespan of Blu-Ray 60+ years

P.S. Movie studios will still find ways to make you spend your money with 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th editions Super, Duper, Magical, Extended, Director's Cut & The Son of the Director's cut editions

The next media based movie format should deliver this:

1) Lossless Video
2) 4:4:4 (NO chroma subsampling)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YUV_4:2:0#4:2:0
3) xvYCC color space (30 million colors --> 1.8 times more then RGB)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XvYCC
4) 48bit color depth (16bit per color)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Color
5) Super Hi-Vision 8K resolution (7680 X 4320)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Hi-Vision
6) I'm good with 7.1 Lossless audio but Super Hi-Vision has 22.2 audio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/22.2

All I'm saying, is if you think a mass amounts of people are going to be happy with one format for 30-40 years you're kidding yourself. Although I do think Bluray will be around for awhile and I agree with you that we are just at the start of the HD era.

There is already a reason for the people to upgrade and have their sets 3d compatible. With the sudden huge interest in 3d films. James Cameron's new film Avatar is entirely 3d and MASS amounts of people are going to want to have that experience in their homes. Thousands of theaters across the country have already been prepped for 3d.

And 8k is not next... 4k is and it looks a whole lot better than 2k. Also theaters output at about 250mbs so the next logical step would be a format that does this as well (or even half of this would be a great deal better). Right now bluray is not even close to this, especially with titles like Predator running at around 20mbs. Now whether or not a mass amount of people are going to want this is questionable, but only time will tell. Nothing is certain.

Lastly why should we ever settle for less? Why not push the industry to keep advancing and give us the best they possibly can? I mean they can start by making all titles 50gig discs.

Anyways we can agree on one thing, at least we love bluray. Enough to talk about it... a lot.