Dune (1984)

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by OneBuckFilms

I just picked up this set for $7.88 in the Walmart bargain bin, and the film looked great to me (faithful transfer, good sound).

The thing is, it could have been so much better in terms of special features.

How about features covering things such as:

- TOTO's score, and the band's involvement.
- The process of adapting the book into the screenplay.
- A retrospective of the film.
- A tribute to Frank Herbert, and the importance of his work.
- Stories from the shooting of the movie, with interviews and recollections from the surviving cast.
- A commentary from David Lynch and a few of the cast.

There is so much more of the story behind the film to tell, and it is not being told here.

The 2006 steelbook DVD extras are what's found on the HD DVD and BD releases. Those extras are substantial on their own IMHO. Yeah, some new stuff would be nice, but with Lynch hating the film and most of the principal cast either busy or elderly I seriously doubt we will see anything new soon.

[kiltymchaggis]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

The 2006 steelbook DVD extras are what's found on the HD DVD and BD releases. Those extras are substantial on their own IMHO. Yeah, some new stuff would be nice, but with Lynch hating the film and most of the principal cast either busy or elderly I seriously doubt we will see anything new soon.

I'm just happy that the PQ/AQ is outstanding and that this is one of the few Universal catalog BD's that aren't botched due to heavy DNR and edge enhancement.

[OneBuckFilms]

Originally Posted by kiltymchaggis

I'm just happy that the PQ/AQ is outstanding and that this is one of the few Universal catalog BD's that aren't botched due to heavy DNR and edge enhancement.

Amen to that. What we have on the disc is great, and I'm happy as far as the movie itself, and the features we have.

Perhaps David Lynch could shed some light on why he has issues with the film, why he thinks it failed etc.

Not talking about the film does nothing to help the situation he's in, and I remember enjoying the film when I saw it as a kid on VHS (several times to say the least).

I think enough time has past that David Lynch could be justified in venting or providing his insights.

Perhaps one day, he'll see the project with a little more objectivity, and feel able to talk about it.

[ditcin]

Actually, I've always been pissed over the wrong tinting (orange) in the day time desert scenes. It was never like that in original home video releases Beta/VHS, Laser. I saw the film theatrically and it wasn't like that. Those horrid tints were added after that bastardized longer edition was pieced together for TV syndication.

This film will always remain unfinished. There was so much left out that wasn't even put back in the syndication edition. I knew a person very high up in the Universal publicity dept. way back and he told me of a screening he went to that was longer and I even have a few b&w's and slides of a few missing scenes - ones not covered in the alternate edition. Raffella, the producer lies when she speaks that their isn't a longer edition; there was but Lynch is so angry at the studio and the way they got another person to re-edit it for TV he wants nothing to do with the project.
The syndication version is so badly done they actually used footage of one space ship but flipped it so it travels opposite in direction but it suppose to be for another race other than the one it was intended - really bad. There were also scenes where the "blue" eyes were even tinted yet.

DUNE has the history very akin to THE KEEP where that film was never scene the way it was planned; and the director wants nothing to do with it either.
I really like both film very much and have even tried to get another company to work a restoration of DUNE years ago but it never went anywhere.
I have a friend to is trying to do the same currently for THE KEEP - he approached me years ago after the release of a special edition of WATCHER IN THE WOODS was released, which I had initiated for ANCHOR BAY (something I would very much would like to over see for a full restoration).

- Scott B.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by ditcin

Actually, I've always been pissed over the wrong tinting (orange) in the day time desert scenes. It was never like that in original home video releases Beta/VHS, Laser. I saw the film theatrically and it wasn't like that. Those horrid tints were added after that bastardized longer edition was pieced together for TV syndication.

This film will always remain unfinished. There was so much left out that wasn't even put back in the syndication edition. I knew a person very high up in the Universal publicity dept. way back and he told me of a screening he went to that was longer and I even have a few b&w's and slides of a few missing scenes - ones not covered in the alternate edition. Raffella, the producer lies when she speaks that their isn't a longer edition; there was but Lynch is so angry at the studio and the way they got another person to re-edit it for TV he wants nothing to do with the project.
The syndication version is so badly done they actually used footage of one space ship but flipped it so it travels opposite in direction but it suppose to be for another race other than the one it was intended - really bad. There were also scenes where the "blue" eyes were even tinted yet.

DUNE has the history very akin to THE KEEP where that film was never scene the way it was planned; and the director wants nothing to do with it either.
I really like both film very much and have even tried to get another company to work a restoration of DUNE years ago but it never went anywhere.
I have a friend to is trying to do the same currently for THE KEEP - he approached me years ago after the release of a special edition of WATCHER IN THE WOODS was released, which I had initiated for ANCHOR BAY (something I would very much would like to over see for a full restoration).

- Scott B.

You remember the exact color timing from 1984? I was only 2 then, but I have seen the film probably well over 100 times in the last 25 years on VHS, TV, DVD, HD DVD, and BD.

[ditcin]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

You remember the exact color timing from 1984? I was only 2 then, but I have seen the film probably well over 100 times in the last 25 years on VHS, TV, DVD, HD DVD, and BD.

I was 23, an art (painting and drawing) and filmmaking major when I had first seen the film the Christmas of 1984. (yes, I still have the hand out given as you walked into the theater with phrases in the "Dune" language and their explanations) It's not just a matter of "color timing" it's a tint. The film didn't have it theatrically, nor the Beta/VHS or Laser, it started on the DVD. It wasn't in any of the publicity materials either - or in any form, books, trading cards, story books NOTHING.
I'd like to explain something. I didn't grow up with color TV. My family couldn't afford it back when I was growing up. B&W TVs were still being sold and still very common. My family didn't have a color TV until the late 70s. Not have it made going to the movies extremely impressionable. The difference between seeing a film on TV in B&W on a 25" set compared to the enormous theatre screen, (remember, before multiplexes single screen theater had larger screens, some of which were 70mm - add to that COLOR made for an amazing experience for me. It made an indelible impression, something anyone younger couldn't understand or acknowledge.
Yes, the scenes in daylight Arrakis weren't originally tinted.
- Scott B.

[JimDiGriz]

Originally Posted by OneBuckFilms

I just picked up this set for $7.88 in the Walmart bargain bin, and the film looked great to me (faithful transfer, good sound).

The thing is, it could have been so much better in terms of special features.

How about features covering things such as:

- TOTO's score, and the band's involvement.
- The process of adapting the book into the screenplay.
- A retrospective of the film.
- A tribute to Frank Herbert, and the importance of his work.
- Stories from the shooting of the movie, with interviews and recollections from the surviving cast.
- A commentary from David Lynch and a few of the cast.

There is so much more of the story behind the film to tell, and it is not being told here.

A commentary from David Lynch?! Are you insane?!

Lynch doesnt do commentaries and he never will. If you have ever seen any interviews with him (not many because he doesnt like extras full stop!) you will know why. Hell, he doesnt even like chapter stops!

[JimDiGriz]

Originally Posted by kiltymchaggis

I'm just happy that the PQ/AQ is outstanding and that this is one of the few Universal catalog BD's that aren't botched due to heavy DNR and edge enhancement.

Yeah I cant see Dune looking and sounding much better than the US release - maybe it could but it would need a full restoration etc and that is just not going to happen for a film like this.

Id really love a decent restoration of the TV/extended cut (I doubt that even more!) - theres so many bits and pieces in that one that are not in the theatrical cut.

[BouCoupDinkyDau]

Originally Posted by ditcin

This film will always remain unfinished.

It was in development hell for a long time. It's amazing it got made at all.

DUNE has the history very akin to THE KEEP where that film was never scene the way it was planned; and the director wants nothing to do with it either.

Kinda like the situation with Fincher and Alien 3.

Dune really needs a remake, but I don't think modern audiences are sophisticated enough to handle it. It would be expensive to do the book justice on film, and lets face it: Big budgeted modern sci-fi films are built around explosions, cool spaceships, and battling robots/superheroes/aliens.

Dune has all of that, but it's much more layered and subtile than something like The Avengers or Pacific Rim. It's old school sci-fi in the grandest sense.

[ditcin]

[QUOTE=BouCoupDinkyDau;8782833]It was in development hell for a long time. It's amazing it got made at all.



Kinda like the situation with Fincher and Alien 3.

Dune really needs a remake, but I don't think modern audiences are sophisticated enough to handle it.

Interesting you should state that. In the original edit of the ending of the film the hand shown in the visions Paul has is seen coming from the sky above everyone just before it begins to rain. It was cut after previews due to audience remarks on cards stating they didn't understand what the hand was and where it came from.

Really! People actually did get it was the "hand of God". The person I knew at Universal had seen this ending hand said it was very impressive along with the music. It was a throw back to biblical films of the 60's . I wish they had left it in.
- Scott M.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by JimDiGriz

Yeah I cant see Dune looking and sounding much better than the US release - maybe it could but it would need a full restoration etc and that is just not going to happen for a film like this.

Id really love a decent restoration of the TV/extended cut (I doubt that even more!) - theres so many bits and pieces in that one that are not in the theatrical cut.

The transfer of the DE disc that was released a couple months ago is supposed to be decent. The problem is that it's in DD 2.0.

[kidglov3s]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

The transfer of the DE disc that was released a couple months ago is supposed to be decent. The problem is that it's in DD 2.0.

I was going to be all over that until I read it was cropped to 1.33:1 (after the prologue, for which that's the OAR). Sure that's how it aired but Dune is a film that really requires the full scope ratio. I'm surprised they didn't somehow get whatever Universal made the DVD with. It's the only 2.35:1 to 4:3 pan and scan title on Blu-ray I'm aware of too.

[JimDiGriz]

Originally Posted by kidglov3s

I was going to be all over that until I read it was cropped to 1.33:1 after the prologue. Sure that's how it aired but Dune is a film that really requires the full scope ratio. I'm surprised they didn't somehow get whatever Universal made the DVD with. It's the only 2.35:1 to 4:3 pan and scan title on Blu-ray I'm aware of too.

Yeah I think I read that and it immediately put me off. Its not that I dont mind original 4:3 stuff, its just that Dune is supposed to be at 2.35:1 and watching it in 4:3 really detracts from the image.

Im sure there was a 2.35:1 ratio TV extended cut on DVD? (never saw this one though)

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by JimDiGriz

Yeah I think I read that and it immediately put me off. Its not that I dont mind original 4:3 stuff, its just that Dune is supposed to be at 2.35:1 and watching it in 4:3 really detracts from the image.

Im sure there was a 2.35:1 ratio TV extended cut on DVD? (never saw this one though)

Not to my knowledge. The TV cut used to come on sci-fi channel during the late 90s and early 00s and it was always 4:3 to fit the old screens perfectly. Also, I only plan on getting the DE release if it get cheap. This is why I have held onto my Dune steelbook DVD for so long due to the TV cut being in 2.35:1 and having DD 5.1.

[Filmmaker]

Originally Posted by JimDiGriz

Im sure there was a 2.35:1 ratio TV extended cut on DVD? (never saw this one though)

Yes, on DVD only, the extended TV cut is in the 2.35:1 ratio.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Filmmaker

Yes, on DVD only, the extended TV cut is in the 2.35:1 ratio.

As a matter of fact I think the only way to get the TV cut in 2.35:1 with 5.1 audio is that Universal steelbook from 2006, which also happens to be OOP.

[ditcin]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

The transfer of the DE disc that was released a couple months ago is supposed to be decent. The problem is that it's in DD 2.0.

The TV syndication was terrible as I mentioned before. It also contained alternate takes/scenes that did not fit into the final edit. The person, Alan Smithe, who was one of the SFX guys did the re-edit and ruined the continuity of the film. He used unfinished optical shots and re-used footage, flipping the image to make it look different. He obviously wasn't given all the proper footage to make the film work and there was a ton more that never was used. He completely ruined the pacing of the film and even used music from unknown sources to fill in the gaps.
The re-editing of films for longer version to be sold to TV, both Networks and in Syndication was a standard going back 30 years ago so better ratings could be made. The Salkinds, producer of the original SUPERMAN films were masters of this. They retained the editorial rights for their films so they could supervise a longer version. This was not only done for SUPERMAN I, II, III and IV (the latter not produced by the Salkinds) but for SANTA CLAUSE: THE MOVIE, and SUPERGIRL. When I worked on the Anchor Bay release of SUPERGIRL I made sure it contained both the U.S. theatrical as well as the TV syndication - do to legal issues we weren't allowed to refer to it as the "syndication" version so we dubbed it the "Extended International" version.
When WARNER released Irwin Allen's THE SWARM to DVD I aided in them choosing the longer true International Edition. Legal issues stood in the way in releasing the much longer Network aired version - which still neglected to include footage.
- Scott B.

[kidglov3s]

Originally Posted by ditcin

The TV syndication was terrible as I mentioned before. It also contained alternate takes/scenes that did not fit into the final edit. The person, Alan Smithe, who was one of the SFX guys did the re-edit and ruined the continuity of the film. He used unfinished optical shots and re-used footage, flipping the image to make it look different. He obviously wasn't given all the proper footage to make the film work and there was a ton more that never was used. He completely ruined the pacing of the film and even used music from unknown sources to fill in the gaps.
The re-editing of films for longer version to be sold to TV, both Networks and in Syndication was a standard going back 30 years ago so better ratings could be made. The Salkinds, producer of the original SUPERMAN films were masters of this. They retained the editorial rights for their films so they could supervise a longer version. This was not only done for SUPERMAN I, II, III and IV (the latter not produced by the Salkinds) but for SANTA CLAUSE: THE MOVIE, and SUPERGIRL. When I worked on the Anchor Bay release of SUPERGIRL I made sure it contained both the U.S. theatrical as well as the TV syndication - do to legal issues we weren't allowed to refer to it as the "syndication" version so we dubbed it the "Extended International" version.
When WARNER released Irwin Allen's THE SWARM to DVD I aided in them choosing the longer true International Edition. Legal issues stood in the way in releasing the much longer Network aired version - which still neglected to include footage.
- Scott B.

I love reading stuff like this.

[Filmmaker]

Originally Posted by ditcin

The person, Alan Smithe, who was one of the SFX guys did the re-edit

L-every-single-inch-of-MAO!!! Let's put Scott B. in charge!

[kuro_sawa]

Originally Posted by Filmmaker

L-every-single-inch-of-MAO!!! Let's put Scott B. in charge!

Scott B, Alan Smithee is just a pseudonym used when the artist doesnt want to put their name on the work. It has been used a bunch of times in Hollywood.

I have the Universal DVD, not worth picking up the BD?