The Shining (1980)

[WeeBey]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

Wait, quick question;

Is that supposed to be the exact same ball that Jack Torrance is repeatedly throwing against the wall? And if so, was it a standard yellow tennis ball?

Because in that picture of Danny on the trippy carpet it looks like one of those pink Spalding Handballs - hahaha

What’s funny is that when Jack is bouncing the ball it’s yellow so anyone whose first exposure to the movie is in HD is left to wonder who the hell the pink ball belongs to when it rolls up to Danny.

[kingdoxie]

Originally Posted by Alister_M

That sounds like overscan, which can usually be fixed by changing the display settings on either the TV or the player.

Sounds like he's talking about the actual physical frame of his TV, not windoboxing caused by overscan.

[agenda]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Are there people who actually complain about the tiny bars?

Yes, there is. I'm one of those people, even though I know the very differences what comes the director's intended aspect ratio and the one's that aren't -- before anybody even goes there or picking up examples like Arrow's release from Creepshow 2 for Christ sake. For my self the main reason to prefer 16:9 (or 1.78:1) aspect ratio (and I'm not talking about cropping the picture, I'm talking of course open-matte!) is that I watch all my movies from tv set. Funny thing though, I'm also sucker for the oar. It's a hate/love relationship all the way, but I'm not going to be more specific with it, otherwise I'm still writing this when I'm like 70 yo. I'm more than happy with open-matte releases like Repo Man (Criterion) and many-many more.

[eiknarf]

What’s funny is, when I put in my 4:3 ratio VHS version of Rocky III, and I see more image of the top and bottom, I end up seeing the boom microphone in two scenes and it completely takes me out of the mood. Now it’s no longer a movie but people on set. I don’t want to see The Shining in 4:3 anymore. It’s not 1983.

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by Alister_M

That sounds like overscan, which can usually be fixed by changing the display settings on either the TV or the player.

Originally Posted by kingdoxie

Sounds like he's talking about the actual physical frame of his TV, not windoboxing caused by overscan.

How would overscan cause windowboxing?

And yeah, it's just that the whole screen isn't capable of displaying picture. There's not really a 'frame' on it, so the picture just doesn't go all the way to the edge.

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by WeeBey

What’s funny is that when Jack is bouncing the ball it’s yellow so anyone whose first exposure to the movie is in HD is left to wonder who the hell the pink ball belongs to when it rolls up to Danny.

I think it belongs to old woman and that she used it to lure Danny into Room 237 to strangle Danny.

I don't think Jack strangled Danny, because after we see Danny with bruised neck (and Wendy accuses Jack), Jack then goes to bar and Wendy enters and says "Danny told me an old lady in one of the rooms tried to strangle him", and then we proceed to see Jack see an old woman in one of the rooms.

For Jack to have strangled Danny, Danny would have to be lying to Wendy about the old woman strangling him AND it must be pure coincidence that Jack then sees an old woman in one of the rooms that confirms Danny's story. Too many coincidences.

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by surfdude12

I think it belongs to old woman and that she used it to lure Danny into Room 237 to strangle Danny.

I don't think Jack strangled Danny, because after we see Danny with bruised neck (and Wendy accuses Jack), Jack then goes to bar and Wendy enters and says "Danny told me an old lady in one of the rooms tried to strangle him", and then we proceed to see Jack see an old woman in one of the rooms.

For Jack to have strangled Danny, Danny would have to be lying to Wendy about the old woman strangling him AND it must be pure coincidence that Jack then sees an old woman in one of the rooms that confirms Danny's story. Too many coincidences.

Danny was strangled by Jack in the “fatherly love” scene for having woken him up. We know Jack has temper tantrums as he’s admitted to hurting Danny’s arm. The conversation in the “fatherly love” scene was a false reassurance, and Kubrick ended the scene just as Jack was about to turn nasty. This is why the scene featured melancholy music that ended with a sudden jolt as we shifted to the next scene. It’s also why we are shown the rotting woman rising out of the bath tub – it’s a parallel of Jack being woken up in bed.

[myway]

Originally Posted by WeeBey

What’s funny is that when Jack is bouncing the ball it’s yellow so anyone whose first exposure to the movie is in HD is left to wonder who the hell the pink ball belongs to when it rolls up to Danny.

This is hands down one of my all-time favorite movies and, having seen it primarily on Blu-ray (and dvd years ago), I am just now realizing that what rolls towards Danny is the yellow tennis ball that Jack is throwing earlier in the film.

For the record, I still think the Shining BD is a fantastic transfer all around; but I can honestly say I am a bit surprised at the moment.

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

Danny was strangled by Jack in the “fatherly love” scene for having woken him up. We know Jack has temper tantrums as he’s admitted to hurting Danny’s arm. The conversation in the “fatherly love” scene was a false reassurance, and Kubrick ended the scene just as Jack was about to turn nasty. This is why the scene featured melancholy music that ended with a sudden jolt as we shifted to the next scene. It’s also why we are shown the rotting woman rising out of the bath tub – it’s a parallel of Jack being woken up in bed.

Except after the "fatherly love" scene and before the scene of him being bruised and sucking his thumb walking into Colorado lounge is the scene of ball rolling up to him and him entering 237. If Jack strangled him in "fatherly love" scene, why is he all fine playing with trucks, no sucking thumb, no visible bruises, calling for his mom, etc in next scene when ball rolls up to him from 237? Why does he coincidentally enter old woman room & then tell his mom old woman strangled him? Its conceivable he lied out of fear of Jack but whats not conceivable is his demeanor suddenly changing after 237 scene if nothing happened in 237.

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by surfdude12

Except after the "fatherly love" scene and before the scene of him being bruised and sucking his thumb walking into Colorado lounge is the scene of ball rolling up to him and him entering 237. If Jack strangled him in "fatherly love" scene, why is he all fine playing with trucks, no sucking thumb, no visible bruises, calling for his mom, etc in next scene when ball rolls up to him from 237? Why does he coincidentally enter old woman room & then tell his mom old woman strangled him? Its conceivable he lied out of fear of Jack but whats not conceivable is his demeanor suddenly changing after 237 scene if nothing happened in 237.

“As with any severe trauma, Danny would have gone into shock and repressed the painful experience with amnesia. The dream sequences that followed – being summoned into room 237 by a rolling ball, and Jack’s encounter with the rotting woman – were simply trauma induced nightmares that Danny had after the fatherly love scene. In these dreams Danny is reliving his terrifying ordeal of being strangled and laughed at by his father.

Victims of trauma have a tendency to try and identify with their abuser. And this is what Danny does as his suppressed memory of the event consciously resurfaces through his dreams. He re-interprets the trauma as if he is his own father and externalizes the identity of his abuser as a witch-like fairy tale figure. The transformation of the naked woman from beauty to ugliness, which he sees in the bathroom mirror, is a parallel of his father’s sudden mood switch from loving reassurance to violent aggression.

The scenes of Danny entering room 237 and Jack walking through to encounter the woman in the bathroom both begin with the exact same shot of the apartment door slightly open with the 237 key hanging from the lock.”

-Rob Ager

[dissention]

Some people see way too much that isn't there. All this page needs is a video link to that hilarious Room 237 doc.

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by dissention

Some people see way too much that isn't there. All this page needs is a video link to that hilarious Room 237 doc.

But you cant really think that the old woman is real? Even in a haunted house movie, that aint a possibility.

Evil? Yes.
A cyclical loop of Jack "always being the caretaker"? Yes.
Possession? Sure.
Ghosts? Sure.

But there's no way the old woman is real. Its a metaphor. Symbolism.
There's no way there's a flesh and blood old woman chillin' out in a bathtub with full body infections making out with people and laughing. If that was real, that would be silly, like the skeletons. But its not real, which makes it MORE creepy and awesome.

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

“As with any severe trauma, Danny would have gone into shock and repressed the painful experience with amnesia. The dream sequences that followed – being summoned into room 237 by a rolling ball, and Jack’s encounter with the rotting woman – were simply trauma induced nightmares that Danny had after the fatherly love scene. In these dreams Danny is reliving his terrifying ordeal of being strangled and laughed at by his father.

Victims of trauma have a tendency to try and identify with their abuser. And this is what Danny does as his suppressed memory of the event consciously resurfaces through his dreams. He re-interprets the trauma as if he is his own father and externalizes the identity of his abuser as a witch-like fairy tale figure. The transformation of the naked woman from beauty to ugliness, which he sees in the bathroom mirror, is a parallel of his father’s sudden mood switch from loving reassurance to violent aggression.

The scenes of Danny entering room 237 and Jack walking through to encounter the woman in the bathroom both begin with the exact same shot of the apartment door slightly open with the 237 key hanging from the lock.”

-Rob Ager

dream sequence? so is every apparition a dream sequence? the twins? the bear? the people at the party? Runs completely contrary to Doc telling Danny about 237 and that Danny "shines" meaning he can see apparitions, as can Jack. You can't throw in dream sequences into a film that already has a basis (shining) for explaining observing the apparition in non-sleeping state, to explain away apparition that doesn't fit a theory.

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

But you cant really think that the old woman is real? Even in a haunted house movie, that aint a possibility.

Evil? Yes.
A cyclical loop of Jack "always being the caretaker"? Yes.
Possession? Sure.
Ghosts? Sure.

But there's no way the old woman is real. Its a metaphor. Symbolism.
There's no way there's a flesh and blood old woman chillin' out in a bathtub with full body infections making out with people and laughing. If that was real, that would be silly, like the skeletons. But its not real, which makes it MORE creepy and awesome.

Then you can't think the 1921 photo at end is real. Or that the door to meat locker was really opened. If any of it is symbolism then it can all be symbolism.

What you're saying is Kubrick's intent in setting up the movie with Jack's alcoholism, the discussion of Shining, Jack seeing people at party, etc, it was all designed to build up idea in audience head that he is crazy - this is all happening in his head. But then the meat locker gets unlocked and that entire narrative gets flipped. Kubrick confirmed that in interview - it was that moment where it forced audience to go "oh sh!T maybe everything isn't just happening in his head!"

[Mr. Chaverria]

Let's be honest. The proper way it should be presented is what Kubrick intended for theaters. He had a screen to use the way he did. He chose it. And that's what is what should be the standard. He couldn't guess TVs would be where they are in the newer generation for framing.

This whole discussion of what people prefer for whatever reason is just self masturbation cuz it makes them feel better. It should be Kurbrick's theatrical aspect ratio and restored properly in the image. That's THE right way.

I don't care what I prefer for a ratio for this film. I'm not the one making the film. I go w/ whatever the director chose.

Personally? I do wish more modern films would fill the screen up for the sake of Home Video. But... not all directors work well w/ that. Some directors fill it up nice but some just cheapen the production w/ it too. So it's whatever. But this whole revisionist ratio nonsense is just bonkers from y'all.

[koberulz]

How did that ball end up pink? Everything else in the shot looks relatively similar, so it had to have been done deliberately, right?

[DeathlyGeneral]

Originally Posted by koberulz

How did that ball end up pink? Everything else in the shot looks relatively similar, so it had to have been done deliberately, right?

Well, The Shining is from an old master, and old masters have an unfortunate tendency to have a red push as old CRT TVs had problems displaying red. The ball might have been whitish or pinkish but the red push would have given it a more prominent pink hue than Kubrick intended.

Saying it was deliberate is reading waaaaaay too much into the film. It's a ball. Does it matter what the colour is? No, of course it doesn't.

[popeflick]

Originally Posted by surfdude12

Then you can't think the 1921 photo at end is real. Or that the door to meat locker was really opened. If any of it is symbolism then it can all be symbolism.

What you're saying is Kubrick's intent in setting up the movie with Jack's alcoholism, the discussion of Shining, Jack seeing people at party, etc, it was all designed to build up idea in audience head that he is crazy - this is all happening in his head. But then the meat locker gets unlocked and that entire narrative gets flipped. Kubrick confirmed that in interview - it was that moment where it forced audience to go "oh sh!T maybe everything isn't just happening in his head!"

Yeah it doesn't strike me as overly symbolic: either Danny's telling the truth or he shared the vision and did it himself. The hotel apparently was able to make physical manifestations from time to time and the walk in freezer confirms it 100%. Ergo, I think Danny told the truth. The hotel was manipulating the family.

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by DeathlyGeneral

Well, The Shining is from an old master, and old masters have an unfortunate tendency to have a red push as old CRT TVs had problems displaying red. The ball might have been whitish or pinkish but the red push would have given it a more prominent pink hue than Kubrick intended.

Saying it was deliberate is reading waaaaaay too much into the film. It's a ball. Does it matter what the colour is? No, of course it doesn't.

I meant on the part of whoever graded the Blu-ray master, not on the part of Kubrick. It's clearly green/yellow in the earlier releases.

[Agent Kay]

It's the back to the future wheels all over again