The BDA did something stupid and comments like these make you wonder...

[WickyWoo]

There are no players on the market yet that decompress DTS HDMA in the player. There are several that will bitstream it to a reciever

Incidentally, having watched all the chest beating about how HD DVD buyers have only themselves to blame for "buying too early", I'm a little confused about the opinions in this thread.

It's the "you takes your chances" thing with buying into new formats to early. If you don't want to risk buying the wrong player, then wait until there isn't one. If you go ahead anyway, well, you knew what you were getting into

[Knight-Errant]

Thing is, we did know what we were getting into. We knew what features were available and didn't want to wait for the extras to be added. Firmware updates have taken care of any problems for myself.

I made a judgment as to which format to buy based on available evidence and understood at the time that the BDA were in aa race with HD-DVD.

Now as WickyWoo suggests, I expect this statement was manipulated to make the red ants feel better, but it doesn't affect my opinion of the BDA in any case. We knew the situation. It was being spoken about in depth on this forum at the time.

I have no regrets. My expectation of which format had the legs to succeed has been confirmed by events.

[galz]

The problem with this is, the people on the forums knew the chance they were taking yes. The j6p that they have wanted to adopt does not know. No matter who put the information out and how it was presented, it's an issue.

[RUR]

Originally Posted by galz

The problem with this is, the people on the forums knew the chance they were taking yes. The j6p that they have wanted to adopt does not know. No matter who put the information out and how it was presented, it's an issue.

Suppose I buy a car. It's a great car and does everything it was advertised to do. I have occasional problems, but the dealer takes care of those and my experience is pretty positive.

Zero to twelve months later and as is not uncommon, the next model year of that same car is introduced with better or additional features, and for a similar price - onscreen navigation, better CD player, more power, etc. etc. My car still works as advertised when I purchased it, but I'd sure like those new features. Whose fault is it my car doesn't have those features? Should I take it back to the dealer and demand replacement?

[Knight-Errant]

Originally Posted by galz

The problem with this is, the people on the forums knew the chance they were taking yes. The j6p that they have wanted to adopt does not know. No matter who put the information out and how it was presented, it's an issue.

Thing is we've heard endlessly about Joe 6-pack from the HD-DVD side since this war began.

Problem for them is Joe 6-pack really isn't an early adopter. And really, if he's interested in new technology that much, he should do research before buying.

Now, the format isn't so new anymore and is becoming more friendly to casual buyers. But casual buyers aren't the ones you need to initially convince when launching a brand new format, it's the enthusiasts who are interested in the format with the best quality and staying power, not the cheapest one.

[galz]

Originally Posted by RUR

Suppose I buy a car. It's a great car and does everything it was advertised to do. I have occasional problems, but the dealer takes care of those and my experience is pretty positive.

Zero to twelve months later and as is not uncommon, the next model year of that same car is introduced with better or additional features, and for a similar price - onscreen navigation, better CD player, more power, etc. etc. My car still works as advertised when I purchased it, but I'd sure like those new features. Whose fault is it my car doesn't have those features? Should I take it back to the dealer and demand replacement?

I don't think that analogy will really work with the mom who bought her kids movie and they want to play the extras included on the disk, see she is still paying the same price for "all" the features on the disk. I know the risk...the average person does not. They are the ones that are going to have a problem with this.

[PaulGo]

The feature set of Blu-ray was published along with what the upgrade profiles would be. Their have been a lot of features added to electronic products over the years. HDMI inputs on an amplifier (to decode the new codecs) is an example another is computers where older computers cannot handle some operating system features (or just can't handle the operating system). The is technology, am I angry I will someday need to purchase an receiver with HDMI or a newer computer - no. I expect technology to change.

One other example I was an early adopter to DVD. The first DVD player I bought did not have progressive scan, the ability to play DVD-R or RW, or play MP3 files. If I wanted these features I needed to buy another DVD player - such is life.

[DaViD Boulet]

My solution is simple:

the BDA should, going forward, require all BD hardware to comply to full-BD-spec. PERIOD.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...482#post510482

Excellent. I'm converting from HD DVD to Bluray. Can you list for me all the BD players, which can decode DTSMA & TrueHD and unzip Uncompressed PCM onboard and send it to my amp via 5.1 analog?

I don't care about interactive features, just PQ and AQ which should be easy, right?

The Panny BD50 will both internally decode and bistream all advanced audio (and it's BD-live web featured too).

Incidentally, having watched all the chest beating about how HD DVD buyers have only themselves to blame for "buying too early", I'm a little confused about the opinions in this thread.

Many of the BD fanboys on this forum are no different than the HD DVD fanboys on other forums who just run with the "go team go!" banner and don't stop to consider the valid points on the other side, but there are folks here to try to see both sides of a situation as fairly as possible.

[Leon Kennedy]

I feel bad for my fellow Blu members that won't be able to get those other profile features in the future with their current profile 1.0 players. The BDA should replace all their old players with new ones. If possible they should make some sort of add-on device that will play all those features.

If anyone is thinking of buying a Blu-ray player I always recommend the PS3 but I do tell them that better BD players will arrive by summer or holiday season and they should look for the players with profile 2.0 capabilities. Now that the format war is coming to a close we shouldn't confuse those who are interested in Blu-ray but don't know much about specs and profiles.

[bluflu]

It's just the natural evolution of an evolving product. Minor loss not being able to view PIP or download ringtones. Cell phones, GPS, DVD players, etc all went through the same growing pains. Get out of the kitchen if you can't stand the heat of being an early adopter.

[DaViD Boulet]

It's not the same thing.

And even now the technology is available, but manufacturers don't impleiment it properly in BD hardware and a consumer is forced be become an "expert" to just understand what they are and aren't getting with each machine on the store shelf. That's not good product design, and it's a bad strategy for a format that's trying to impress consumers to get on board.

The BDA relaxed specs to gain favor with manufacturers. But it wont' make anyone love BD more when that customer discovers a month later that his $299 or $399 purchase doesn't let him access the bonus materials advertised on the disc packaging.

[bluflu]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

It's not the same thing.

And even now the technology is available, but manufacturers don't impleiment it properly in BD hardware and a consumer is forced be become an "expert" to just understand what they are and aren't getting with each machine on the store shelf. That's not good product design, and it's a bad strategy for a format that's trying to impress consumers to get on board.

The BDA relaxed specs to gain favor with manufacturers. But it wont' make anyone love BD more when that customer discovers a month later that his $299 or $399 purchase doesn't let him access the bonus materials advertised on the disc packaging.

It's not rocket science.

Profile 1.0: plays all movies.
Profile 1.1: adds picture-in-picture capability.
Profile 2.0: adds internet capability.

[caliminius]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Now, I just came up with that off of the top of my head. It probably would need some modification before being good enough to be the finalized statement, but it pretty much gives you the same honest approach without the "You were an early adopter, and F-you if you don't like the changes" undertone that came with the statement that they actually released.

If you read the article, you'd notice that only one of the statements came from the BDA itself. The first quote, "They knew what they were getting into." was from a BD Live developer, presumably some employee working for one the studios. The second, and most diplomatic statement that lacked a quote, came from the BDA. The final statement was from a Blu-Ray disc manufacturer who was just being honest.

And really, considering how early it is in these formats, I doubt there were all that many consumers who didn't know that the Blu-Ray player they were buying couldn't and never would be able to do any of the 1.1/2.0 Profile things.

[DaViD Boulet]

It's not rocket science.

Profile 1.0: plays all movies.
Profile 1.1: adds picture-in-picture capability.
Profile 2.0: adds internet capability.

For AV enthusiasts, not hard to figure out at all.

Now who's going to volunteer to go stand at the local best-buy and explain that to every customer browsing the Blu-ray aisle? I don't remember seeing signs that explain to consumers that they need to be wary to understand these differences and how they might impact their ability to play features on their Blu-ray Discs. I'm pretty sure that a random sampling of Best-buy employees would know even *less* about those three points you just mentioned than the average consumer.

[PeteS]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Except they didn't release that. ..

I'll be willing to bet $20 that if we went to the videotape, then you'd see exactly how it was manipulated

I mean really people, we've had 2 years of the red camp spinning and lying to discredit blu. They've lost both their arms and a leg, and are preparing to still try to bite Blu's leg's off. What makes you think they'd stop now?

Yep. One of the big differences between the BDA and HD DVD folks and for the most part I'd include their proponents is that the Blu-ray folks haven't had to lie and have been pretty forthright and honest. That's an outside opinion as someone looking at both sides.

[dalejrfanfreak]

The only good thing about this situation is that Blu Ray players don't cost $1000 anymore. Therefore, since it's not a huge investment to buy a new player, especially if they just keep dropping in price, I don't think that this is going to matter all that much. Besides, if Blu Ray becomes the only option then people aren't going to have much choice.

[MerrickG]

MODs close this thread. I see it as water under the bridge now.

[DaViD Boulet]

The only good thing about this situation is that Blu Ray players don't cost $1000 anymore. Therefore, since it's not a huge investment to buy a new player, especially if they just keep dropping in price, I don't think that this is going to matter all that much.

Some of these comments are laugh-outloud hillarious. Because BD hardware is now less than $1K, the features they provide don't matter? Spending $300 or $400 is disposable income? Incredible

Besides, if Blu Ray becomes the only option then people aren't going to have much choice.

Forcing unaware consumers to deal with the inconsistent featureset of BD hardware is a problem, not a solution.

[CptGreedle]

So now that they lost, the red ants are just going to eat this stuff up and try to get people to not buy Blu-ray even though it is fully capable NOW...

[little_boy_blu]

Would you rather the BDA spokes person lied and blew smoke and Mirrors.. I personnally am glad that he /she said what they did. It is the raw, honest truth that we all knew anyways.

Proud of the BDA.