Linear PCM vs Bitstream

[LembasBread]

Originally Posted by jcs913

Your points are very well taken and true. I am not an expert in the PS3's ability to decode, but isn't it true that during the decoding process, players apply different types of DSP's to the tracks? And doesn't the PS3 decode using the cell processor, not a dedicated decoder?

I'm pretty sure that within players, the only DSP's that they have before converting to LPCM is the DSP for decoding the audio. Some players, including the PS3, don't have any bass management, which means one less DSP step to go through. Receivers on the other hand have many DSP's for Dolby tracks for example the EX matrixing, Midnight Modes, bass management, and other EQ/processesing options like the Onkyo has with Theatre-Wide, Mono, Mono/Movie, Orchestra, Unplugged, etc...

Players have much less DSP's than receivers do. Even when the receiver has a Direct/Pure mode such as the Onkyo, there still might be something going on with the Dolby Digital DSP. Having it on Direct theoretically should sound exactly like the Dolby track converted to LPCM within the player. But, it doesn't on the Onkyo TX-SR605 that I've listened to.

I'm not particularly savvy about the whether or not the PS3's decoders are software or hardware, but either way they do the same thing. We're getting to the point with technology that we can have powerful emulation chips. After all, it's just binary code. Whether or not it's being processed in a dedicated chip or emulated, it should produce the same result. Either way, the PS3 is a powerful machine, and as has been demonstrated with the video processing, I'm sure the audio processing is just as top notch.

[slickkeng]

Is the PS3 able to bitstream LPCM? Since It cant completely send it dolby true HD and DTS-HD MA (only its core) at this point? This is over HDMI thta I'm talking about. Oh and just a side note, I recall reading a news article that said that Sony is working closely with DTS on a new firmware upgrade to decode DTS-HD MA (not sure if this means bitstream either), so hopefully they'll release a new firmware upgrade soon with these new features. It can't come too soon!

[LembasBread]

Originally Posted by slickkeng

Is the PS3 able to bitstream LPCM? Since It cant completely send it dolby true HD and DTS-HD MA (only its core) at this point? This is over HDMI thta I'm talking about. Oh and just a side note, I recall reading a news article that said that Sony is working closely with DTS on a new firmware upgrade to decode DTS-HD MA (not sure if this means bitstream either), so hopefully they'll release a new firmware upgrade soon with these new features. It can't come too soon!

LPCM isn't "bitstreamed" like Dolby/DTS are because it is pure, raw, uncompressed, unadulterated digital audio. So, while listening to an LPCM track on a BD and switching between Bitstream and LPCM, nothing happens because LPCM is LPCM. Essentialy the player reads the LPCM track of the disc and spit out the HDMI where it goes to the receiver's DAC-preamp-monitor amp and out to your speakers.

[slickkeng]

Originally Posted by LembasBread

LPCM isn't "bitstreamed" like Dolby/DTS are because it is pure, raw, uncompressed, unadulterated digital audio. So, while listening to an LPCM track on a BD and switching between Bitstream and LPCM, nothing happens because LPCM is LPCM. Essentialy the player reads the LPCM track of the disc and spit out the HDMI where it goes to the receiver's DAC-preamp-monitor amp and out to your speakers.

Hey thanks for the post and clarification. I have another question and I dont know if you have the answer Lembas, but you seem to know alot about home theater. My questions is, is it true that you shouldn't hook up your powered subwoofer to the subwoofer out port on your receiver? I heard that it was better to hook up your subwoofer to the front left and right speakers for better performance/bass management. So which is the best way? What kind of performance boost can we expect if any? Thanks.

[LembasBread]

Originally Posted by slickkeng

Hey thanks for the post and clarification. I have another question and I dont know if you have the answer Lembas, but you seem to know alot about home theater. My questions is, is it true that you shouldn't hook up your powered subwoofer to the subwoofer out port on your receiver? I heard that it was better to hook up your subwoofer to the front left and right speakers for better performance/bass management. So which is the best way? What kind of performance boost can we expect if any? Thanks.

I'd say it's better for bass management only for stereo and the fact that it has less DSP's to go through. But, for 5.1, you'll be missing out on all the low frequency content in the other 3 channels of a 5.1 mix.

Afaik, when mixing the LFE in with the front two channels, you no longer have the ability to do any bass management. If you do, you just have yet another DSP that has to mix all these channels togther and send it out to a sub that separates it again. That, and I'm sure daisy chaining channels through a sub starts introducing some latency as it has to go through the sub and out to the loudspeakers which may or may not be the equidistant from the listening position. In the end it's usually a safer bet to just leave the bass management to the receiver as you have more options.

[slickkeng]

Originally Posted by LembasBread

I'd say it's better for bass management only for stereo and the fact that it has less DSP's to go through. But, for 5.1, you'll be missing out on all the low frequency content in the other 3 channels of a 5.1 mix.

Afaik, when mixing the LFE in with the front two channels, you no longer have the ability to do any bass management. If you do, you just have yet another DSP that has to mix all these channels togther and send it out to a sub that separates it again. That, and I'm sure daisy chaining channels through a sub starts introducing some latency as it has to go through the sub and out to the loudspeakers which may or may not be the equidistant from the listening position. In the end it's usually a safer bet to just leave the bass management to the receiver as you have more options.

Thanks for all the helpful tips lembas.

[LembasBread]

Originally Posted by slickkeng

Thanks for all the helpful tips lembas.

No prob Bob.

[mugen302005]

Sorry for butting in.

When you set your player(dvd,ps3) to send a digital signal, you can see your receiver display a sign that tells you DD for dolby digital and all the speakers that are "turned on" by that signal. The same happens with dts. My question is, does the same thing happen with lossless tracks? I mean , do these new receivers have such a sign that tells you it is playing pcm 5.1 or 7.1 or truDolby Digital or Dta master audio etc?

Thanks a bunch!

[quetzalcoatl]

Originally Posted by mugen302005

Sorry for butting in.

When you set your player(dvd,ps3) to send a digital signal, you can see your receiver display a sign that tells you DD for dolby digital and all the speakers that are "turned on" by that signal. The same happens with dts. My question is, does the same thing happen with lossless tracks? I mean , do these new receivers have such a sign that tells you it is playing pcm 5.1 or 7.1 or truDolby Digital or Dta master audio etc?

Thanks a bunch!

Yes they do.

[Codywan24]

Depends on the receiver. I have a Sony ES ('07 model) and it absolutely does. Before this I had a Denon that I exchanged for the ES and it did too. I'm not sure about older receivers or other brands, but there you go. The only thing is that you can't change sound fields with PCM (for example, no Pro-Logic II, or built in "Cinema" modes). It still sounds amazing and you can tweak your Level and EQ settings however you want. Hope this helps!

[mugen302005]

Originally Posted by Codywan24

Depends on the receiver. I have a Sony ES ('07 model) and it absolutely does. Before this I had a Denon that I exchanged for the ES and it did too. I'm not sure about older receivers or other brands, but there you go. The only thing is that you can't change sound fields with PCM (for example, no Pro-Logic II, or built in "Cinema" modes). It still sounds amazing and you can tweak your Level and EQ settings however you want. Hope this helps!

it really helps. That being said, i?d like to know of a model that does precisely that considering a tight budged. Would you help me with that? retailers just tell you things do everything even when you know they don't.

Thanks in advance.

[JAGUAR1977]

Originally Posted by gand41f

I don't know. I'm in the same boat with you (no HDMI input to receiver) but to me 2-channel PCM converted to surround by my receiver's "Neo 6 Cinema" (whatever that means) sounds better than DD5.1. Sure, you lose some surround effects but most movies don't have that much distinct signals on the back speakers anyway, and the additional clarity of lossless audio more than makes up for it.

enjoy
gandalf

I've heard this a few times, i'm thinking Halloween would be a good demo track as it will have few surround effects to start with.

Anyone else prefare 2.0 PCM (converted to Pro logic ll, Neo 6 or whatever) to regular DD 5.1.

[blueraybum]

I have my ps3 hooked up to my receiver(pioneer elite 92-txh) via hdmi so I can listen to my movies in uncompressed sound. Should I have my ps3 set to Linear PCM or Bitstream?

[sj001]

Originally Posted by blueraybum

I have my ps3 hooked up to my receiver(pioneer elite 92-txh) via hdmi so I can listen to my movies in uncompressed sound. Should I have my ps3 set to Linear PCM or Bitstream?

You need to set it to Linear PCM.

[blurayistheway]

Untill some of the new audio codecs can be bitstreamed, i would stick with linear pcm. i have the 91 and love it

[moviefan]

So what is the difference?
I had my Samsung BD P1200 set for PCM, but on some DVDs (Gettysburg) I had no English sound track. BluRay discs were OK.
I called Samsung, and they had me switch to bitstream, which solved the problem.
Which audio format is better, and why?

[crackinhedz]

well, the honest answer is you can have it set to either linear pcm or bitstream...

...when watching a standard dvd you can have it on bitstream, then when you pop in a bluray and want to listen to lossless audio you can switch back to linear pcm on the fly....

during the movie (PS3 only) simply hit the triangle button and go to the AV Setting to switch between LPCM and Bitstream.


Uncompressed PCM track will automatically play as linear pcm no matter what you have it set on, but for Dolby TrueHD it must be on Linear PCM...but again, you can always change on the fly.

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by moviefan

So what is the difference?

Bitstream = player sends audio to receiver, reciever decodes.

Linear PCM = audio decoded in the player first, then sent to receiver.

[moviefan]

Thanls, crakinhesdz.
The BD P1200 will not play True HD audio, so I'll keep the player on "bitstream" and watch for the PCM when it is available on a Blu Ray disc.
30 BluRay titles and counting.
52" JVC HDILA 720P, Samsung BD P1200, Sony 5200ES, "Buttkickers" under seats

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by moviefan

... and watch for the PCM when it is available on a Blu Ray disc.

a majority of blurays have Uncompressed PCM track.