Can an HC-1600 throw a 2.35:1 image?

[Disky76]

I've had a FP setup for about 6 months now, and have been very happy with it. Now the the initial novelty of it has worn off, I am getting tired of seeing the black bars on my 16:9 screen. So, I have been thinking about upgrading to a 2.35:1 screen and getting masking material for 1.85:1 media.

I did some online research, and also can't seem to locate my manual, and haven't been able to answer my question yet: can my HC-1600 throw a 2.35:1 or 2.4:1 image? My Draper screen can easily be pulled down less for a 2.35:1 image, but I have been thinking about a permanent 2.35:1 screen.

Anyone have any help for me? I am trying to see if this is worth pursuing. I don't really want to upgrade the projector - it's hardly been used - just the screen.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance!

[Brain Sturgeon]

I don't think the HC-1600 has a v-stretch mode, but I'm not sure. If it does not, and you don't want to spring for an outboard video processor that does and/or an anamorphic lens; then the only way to achieve a "black-bar-less" image with the HC-1600 is to zoom the image so that the bars are outside of the screen frame so that the image completely fills a 2.35 or 2.40 AR screen.

You can answer your own question very easily by zooming your image size so that a 2.35 or 2.40:1 AR image/movie completely fills the height of your desired size 2.35 or 2.40:1 screen.

[Texitura]

The specs on your pj give a zoom range of 1.2. Minimum required for Constant Height using zoom is 1.3, so I don't think that will work for you.

[Suntory_Times]

Originally Posted by Texitura

The specs on your pj give a zoom range of 1.2. Minimum required for Constant Height using zoom is 1.3, so I don't think that will work for you.

Honestly the zoome range has to do with throw distance and doesn't realy make a difference. If your projector has a zoom option so as the 2:35:1 option fills up the whole screen (streches it vertically) it can do 2:35:1.

On a side note, does anyone know if the Epson tw3000 has such a strech option as eveything says it can but I cant figure out how to make it work. (or do you need an external scaler?).

[Texitura]

Originally Posted by Suntory_Times

Honestly the zoome range has to do with throw distance and doesn't realy make a difference.

It certainly does make a difference if you want Constant Height. To make 2.35 material and 1.85 material project at the same image height, a zoom range of 1.3 or better is needed.

[Suntory_Times]

Originally Posted by Texitura

It certainly does make a difference if you want Constant Height. To make 2.35 material and 1.85 material project at the same image height, a zoom range of 1.3 or better is needed.

Are you talking about a vertical strech of 1.3 (in which case I agree with you), or a throw ratio (in whihc case I disagree with you). Though i'm expert but have used a anamorphic lense with a projector that only had a 1:1 throw.

[Texitura]

Originally Posted by Suntory_Times

Are you talking about a vertical strech of 1.3 (in which case I agree with you), or a throw ratio (in whihc case I disagree with you). Though i'm expert but have used a anamorphic lense with a projector that only had a 1:1 throw.

No, I am talking about achieving Constant Height projection using only the projector's zoom. No vertical stretch, no anamorphic lens.

2.35 material is projected so that the "black bars" fall outside the screen. 1.85 material must then be zoomed in (image made smaller) so that the vertical height of the image will fit the screen. This requires at least a 1.3 zoom range.

[Suntory_Times]

Originally Posted by Texitura

No, I am talking about achieving Constant Height projection using only the projector's zoom. No vertical stretch, no anamorphic lens.

2.35 material is projected so that the "black bars" fall outside the screen. 1.85 material must then be zoomed in (image made smaller) so that the vertical height of the image will fit the screen. This requires at least a 1.3 zoom range.

Ahh, okay then, the HC-1600 def cant do that though and needs the anamorphic lense. Or have I gone crazy and need to fins some anti-crazy pille.

[Brain Sturgeon]

The projector still should be able to zoom an image so that a scope image completely fills a scope screen, projecting the black bars both above and below the edges of the screen. I believe Eddie Nyce (https://www.blu-ray.com/community/ga...ber=Eddie.Nyce) is using his Mitsu this way.

However, as Texitura pointed out, given the limited zoom range of the HC-1600, you won't be able to switch between a 16:9 image projection and scope image projection on an identical height screen (aka "Constant Image Height") unless you physically change the position of the projector nearer to or further from the screen (impractical if the projector is on a fixed mount). The other way to do it would be use an anamorphic lens, but I'm not sure if the HC-1600 has a v-stretch mode that would allow use of the anamorphic. If it doesn't, then you would also need an outboard scalar to use a lens. Either way, just the lens itself will probably cost you more than the projector, in addition to a scalar if you need one.

[Suntory_Times]

^ True, that bieng said an anamorphic lense can be diy'ed for such projectors relativly cheaply. There not as good as the better lenses but cost a fraction of the amount and with such a projector may be justifiable, whereas with a better projector (such as yours brainsturgeon, you would deff want to have a better then diy anamorphic lense).

[Disky76]

Thank you everyone!

Brain, you have inspired me to take a look at anamorphic lenses...but given their price, is it really worth it for an entry level projector? Or should I start looking at upgrading my level?

For now, I am keeping the 16:9 screen until I can get a little more information on the HC-1600. I am looking at a video processor. Could that help with the ratio?

I am also considering forgoing the purchase of an HD video processor and maybe getting a second projector instead - 1080p - for my theatre, and taking the HC-1600 to setup my back room/family room with 720p front projection.

I went with 720p projection for my theatre initially as it was a relatively low out of pocket investment to get started. Now, I have been considering an upgrade. Might make the jump to 1080p and invest more. But how do you tell if a projector can project a 2.35:1 image?

[Disky76]

Originally Posted by Brain Sturgeon

The projector still should be able to zoom an image so that a scope image completely fills a scope screen, projecting the black bars both above and below the edges of the screen. I believe Eddie Nyce (https://www.blu-ray.com/community/ga...ber=Eddie.Nyce) is using his Mitsu this way.

However, as Texitura pointed out, given the limited zoom range of the HC-1600, you won't be able to switch between a 16:9 image projection and scope image projection on an identical height screen (aka "Constant Image Height") unless you physically change the position of the projector nearer to or further from the screen (impractical if the projector is on a fixed mount). The other way to do it would be use an anamorphic lens, but I'm not sure if the HC-1600 has a v-stretch mode that would allow use of the anamorphic. If it doesn't, then you would also need an outboard scalar to use a lens. Either way, just the lens itself will probably cost you more than the projector, in addition to a scalar if you need one.

I looked at the pictures, and he definitely is projecting onto a scope screen using an HC-1600. I would be curious to see how he switches from 2.35:1 material to 1.85:1 material - that is where I am hitting my roadblock.

I looked at anamorphic lenses, and it doesn't really seem worth it to plunk down a couple thousand when the projector was less than a thousand. (I have also been looking at Video Processors). So I am assuming that he uses the zoom method. That means that, for 1.85:1 material, he would need to change the location of the projector. It might not be hard if he projects from a table or shelf.

That said, I did manage to reduce the black bars significantly on 2.35:1 material without losing picture. I first repositioned my projector 1 foot farther from the screen. Then, I adjusted my screen to 1.95 or 2.0:1 (or so). At that ratio, I found I am still able to project normal 16:9 material without noticable overspill using the "REAL" mode setting on the projector.

With the slightly wider screen and the increased projection distance, I was able to throw a 2.35:1 image on the screen with much smaller and less noticeable black bars. I tested a 1.85:1 movie as well, and it filled the screen as normal with minimal overspill. Adjusting the screen height would correct that.

I was able to achieve this by toggling with the keystone correction to settings of -10 ver and +2 hor. This "shimmied" the image to fit the screen. If the REAL mode cropped it in any way, it's not enough to be noticeable. I have a little leeway as well for zooming without spilling the image.

This will do for now, until I am ready to upgrade projectors and screen. I still would like the 2.35:1 scope setup - but since my projector is little used anyway, I have decided to wait until I am ready to upgrade once the HC-1600 has more miles on it.

[Beta Man]

I just strive to make the room darker....... the black bars just go away

[Brain Sturgeon]

Originally Posted by Disky76

I looked at the pictures, and he definitely is projecting onto a scope screen using an HC-1600. I would be curious to see how he switches from 2.35:1 material to 1.85:1 material - that is where I am hitting my roadblock.

I looked at anamorphic lenses, and it doesn't really seem worth it to plunk down a couple thousand when the projector was less than a thousand. (I have also been looking at Video Processors). So I am assuming that he uses the zoom method. That means that, for 1.85:1 material, he would need to change the location of the projector. It might not be hard if he projects from a table or shelf.

That said, I did manage to reduce the black bars significantly on 2.35:1 material without losing picture. I first repositioned my projector 1 foot farther from the screen. Then, I adjusted my screen to 1.95 or 2.0:1 (or so). At that ratio, I found I am still able to project normal 16:9 material without noticable overspill using the "REAL" mode setting on the projector.

With the slightly wider screen and the increased projection distance, I was able to throw a 2.35:1 image on the screen with much smaller and less noticeable black bars. I tested a 1.85:1 movie as well, and it filled the screen as normal with minimal overspill. Adjusting the screen height would correct that.

I was able to achieve this by toggling with the keystone correction to settings of -10 ver and +2 hor. This "shimmied" the image to fit the screen. If the REAL mode cropped it in any way, it's not enough to be noticeable. I have a little leeway as well for zooming without spilling the image.

This will do for now, until I am ready to upgrade projectors and screen. I still would like the 2.35:1 scope setup - but since my projector is little used anyway, I have decided to wait until I am ready to upgrade once the HC-1600 has more miles on it.

From what I know, Eddie uses his projector in a strictly 2.35:1 mode. I believe he has a flat panel of some sort behind that drop down screen that he uses for 1.78:1 viewing. Either that, or he just watches cropped 1.78:1 on his projector.

You might still want to consider an anamorphic lens and a v.p., as you can use these with any projector and don't need to change these when you upgrade. You could consider it a one time "investment"-- although if you're like most of us, you will tend to upgrade those over time too. If you happen to choose a BD player like the Oppo, it has a built in support for anamorphic lenses. Of course, this doesn't help you for other sources like Satellite/Cable, DVD, etc.

Good luck!

[Disky76]

I have decided, for now, to build a masking system for 2.35:1 movies, covering the top and bottom with panels. It won't be automated, but will be a good experiment to have 16:9 and 2.35:1 material filling the screen.

[mac1165]

The Mitsubishi HD 1000 (relatively inexpensive) has a 2.35:1 screen setting, which is what I'm using for my 2.35:1 screen. I don't know why they left this feature off the newer HC 1600. It does appear again on their entry level 1080p projector, though. It's a great feature that I have not seen on any other line of projector.

This setting allows you to project a constant height image for all formats without having to zoom in and out, and no anamorphic lens is required.

I love it as I prefer to give preference to 2.35:1 movies over all other content. Of course, I have "black bars" on the sides now for television and 1:85:1 movies, but it's much less distracting than horizontal bars. I will never go back to a 16x9 screen.

[SeanMF]

So the "real" setting on the 1600 will display 2:35.1 properly? I'm thinking of doing a fixed screen for 2.35.1 and then switch to 16:9 setting and have a motorized screen for that.

[Disky76]

Originally Posted by seanfarley2

So the "real" setting on the 1600 will display 2:35.1 properly? I'm thinking of doing a fixed screen for 2.35.1 and then switch to 16:9 setting and have a motorized screen for that.

No, the HC-1600 does not have a setting for 2.35:1. In my post above, in the "REAL" setting, I was able to minimize the black bars on a 16:9 screen, at the time of the post, by zooming a bit and using the REAL setting where I was able to reduce the size of the black bars. But I found I was missing part of the picture.

The best way to do 2.35:1 with an HC-1600 is to use masking panels if you have a 16:9 screen, and zoom if you have a 2.35:1 screen.

My masking panels were inexpensive and are very effective. I can change my screen to 16:9 to 2.35:1 or up to 2.4:1 within seconds. I have my projector set so I only need to tweak when switching between ratios. One of these days I will post on the details of the panels.

The only drawback is that you sacrafice screen size this way. My 100" 16:9 screen turns into a 92" 2.35:1 screen - and I am able to project perfectly - and it looks perfect as the masking panels match my draping system.

The HC-1600 can also zoom to 2.35:1 if you have a screen in that ratio, however you may have to reposition the projector for a 1.85:1 ratio as the throw will be different. That's why I opted to mask horizontally, so I can keep the projector in one spot.

Zooming will be more challenging for the HC-1600 as I don't think the zoom range has the ability to do CIH.

All in all, my setup works and I am very happy with it. It will keep this projector in my cinema for a while.

Hope that helped!!

[SeanMF]

Originally Posted by Disky76

No, the HC-1600 does not have a setting for 2.35:1. In my post above, in the "REAL" setting, I was able to minimize the black bars on a 16:9 screen, at the time of the post, by zooming a bit and using the REAL setting where I was able to reduce the size of the black bars. But I found I was missing part of the picture.

The best way to do 2.35:1 with an HC-1600 is to use masking panels if you have a 16:9 screen, and zoom if you have a 2.35:1 screen.

My masking panels were inexpensive and are very effective. I can change my screen to 16:9 to 2.35:1 or up to 2.4:1 within seconds. I have my projector set so I only need to tweak when switching between ratios. One of these days I will post on the details of the panels.

The only drawback is that you sacrafice screen size this way. My 100" 16:9 screen turns into a 92" 2.35:1 screen - and I am able to project perfectly - and it looks perfect as the masking panels match my draping system.

The HC-1600 can also zoom to 2.35:1 if you have a screen in that ratio, however you may have to reposition the projector for a 1.85:1 ratio as the throw will be different. That's why I opted to mask horizontally, so I can keep the projector in one spot.

Zooming will be more challenging for the HC-1600 as I don't think the zoom range has the ability to do CIH.

All in all, my setup works and I am very happy with it. It will keep this projector in my cinema for a while.

Hope that helped!!

That is what I wanted to know. Would I have it in real to achieve this? I plan on building a diy fixed screen for that and have a 16:9 motorized screen and i'll switch the setting to 16:9. That way I want the 16:9 image I just do the motorized screen. Just weighing my options but I'll probably achieve something like this after I upgrade my projo. I'm sure the new projo won't have trouble achieving what I want.

[Disky76]

Originally Posted by seanfarley2

That is what I wanted to know. Would I have it in real to achieve this? I plan on building a diy fixed screen for that and have a 16:9 motorized screen and i'll switch the setting to 16:9. That way I want the 16:9 image I just do the motorized screen. Just weighing my options but I'll probably achieve something like this after I upgrade my projo. I'm sure the new projo won't have trouble achieving what I want.

Will your fixed screen be 2.35:1?

If so, the REAL option won't manipulate the ratio to the degree that you need. The zoom, unfortunately, is not a wide enough range to support CIH.

If you are mounting two separate screens - you may be able to mount the 16:9 as an electric at a closer distance than the 2.35:1 fixed and it MAY work.

Another option is an anamorphic lens. With an Anamorphic lens, the HC-1600 can do CIH.