Perfect Vision/Absolute Sound reports on the Lexicon BD-30

[Gremal]

Kudos to Chris Martens for a balanced and informed review, for once. Excerpts below.

I asked again whether Oppo and Lexicon had worked on the BD-30 and learned that in fact they had. Marc Kellom, Harman International’s head of High Performance A/V products, indicated that the same supplier that builds the Oppo player in its entirety manufactures core elements of the BD-30 in China. Final assembly, firmware loading, and quality control testing for the BD-30, however, take place in Lexicon’s facility based in Elkhart, Indiana.

Kellom explained that during the development of both players, Lexicon had evaluated the then-current Oppo design and suggested some video-related changes—changes that were eventually incorporated in production versions of both players. Similarly, Lexicon bore the costs of having the Oppo design put through conformance testing relative to various worldwide consumer safety standards and to put it through THX qualification testing, again leading to changes that were incorporated into both players.

Knowing that it would sell its version of the player through its upscale, service-oriented retail dealer channel (where the standing expectation is that dealers will provide expert custom installation/integration services), Lexicon decided that its version of the player would need several changes vis-à-vis a standard Oppo player. First, it required a significant more beefy and elegant looking chassis (and one strong enough to support rack mounting), plus firmware modifications that would make the player easier for dealers to integrated with other Lexicon high-performance A/V products (e.g., the MC-12). Second, the player required formal THX certification—if only for the sake of consistency with other THX-certified Lexicon products. Third, the BD-30 would need to ship with somewhat different accessories than those that come with the standard Oppo player, including a set of rack-mounting “ears” plus a copy of the well-regarded Joe Kane Productions Digital Video Essentials HD Basics, Blu-ray Edition HD set-up toolkit disk.

The upshot, then, is that the BD-30 takes the core chassis, circuit boards, and drive mechanism of a standard Oppo BDP-83 universal Blu-ray player, and mounts them within a heavily built Lexicon enclosure, “re-flashes” the player’s firmware EPROMs with Lexicon-spec code, and then performs its own battery of final quality control tests in the US.

At any rate, the video and audio performance characteristics of the Lexicon BD-30 and Oppo BDP-83 are essentially identical, with one small difference. The much heavier chassis casework of the BD-30 makes its mechanical operation noticeably quieter than the Oppo.

Given that The Perfect Vision has already done an in-depth review of the BDP-83, we have elected not to do a full review of the Lexicon. However, if we had prepared a full review, the concluding paragraphs might have read something like this:

The Lexicon BD-30 is an excellent universal Blu-ray player, offering exemplary video performance and very good, though not quite great, sound quality. I expect the player will find favor among customers who appreciate the benefits and services that Lexicon’s excellent retail dealer network can provide.

Even so, there is an element of disappointment here, and it revolves around the fact that the BD-30 does not, apart from its somewhat quieter mechanical operation, improve upon the core A/V performance of the inexpensive Oppo BDP-83 upon which it is based. Given the BD-30’s hefty price tag, I think customers might well have expected more.

http://www.avguide.com/blog/first-li...blu-ray-player

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by Gremal

Kudos to Chris Martens for a balanced and informed review, for once. Excerpts below.



http://www.avguide.com/blog/first-li...blu-ray-player

Sounds like Chris couldn't help but take a shot at Audioholics:

"As it turns out, however, some of the Oppo’s most vociferous critics turn out to be “reviewer/journalists” who in fact work for organizations that are online resellers of the Oppo. So much for impartiality and fairness…"

They took the easy way out and elected not to do a full review of the machine. No flames and no backlash by Lexicon.

The question remains of what happened to the THX certification that has disappeared from the Lexicon website. Perhaps sharp readers pointing out that the Oppo/Lexicon not being able to do an 80Hz crossover for internal bass management forced THX's hand.

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by EWL5

Sounds like Chris couldn't help but take a shot at Audioholics:

Good. Audioholics deserves to go down in flames.

They took the easy way out and elected not to do a full review of the machine. No flames and no backlash by Lexicon.

He was smart to not step into the middle of a cyberspace lynch mob, but his review clearly said what it needed to.

The question remains of what happened to the THX certification that has disappeared from the Lexicon website. Perhaps sharp readers pointing out that the Oppo/Lexicon not being able to do an 80Hz crossover for internal bass management forced THX's hand.

The idea of setting speaker xover in your disc machine is so alien to me that I can't believe this is an issue, regardless of THX certification.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by Gremal

The idea of setting speaker xover in your disc machine is so alien to me that I can't believe this is an issue, regardless of THX certification.

Is this because you prefer sending a full range signal over the analog outputs or because you believe it's better for the prepro to handle bass management?

[gonk]

Originally Posted by EWL5

They took the easy way out and elected not to do a full review of the machine. No flames and no backlash by Lexicon.

I think that under the circumstances it is reasonable not to review the BD-30 if the effort has been made to verify that the performance is equivalent to the stock BDP-83. Technically, Audioholics did the exact same thing - although they used the opportunity to create a fairly alarmist article in the process that generated lots of attention.

Lexicon's comments to him brought a smile to my face. Lexicon "bore the costs" of getting THX certification - as if it was some favor they did for OPPO, when OPPO had no interest in certifying the BDP-83 and was doing the engineering work required to satisfy THX on the video performance. (I still haven't heard if the changes were made in firmware only or if they involved hardware - for any firmware changes that were involved, it would be cheaper and easier to integrate the changes into the BDP-83 code base than to create a parallel BD-30 firmware branch because it would simplify maintaining the BD-30 firmware going forward.) They also made reference to differences in firmware for ease of integration (presumably the RS232 interface that OPPO has always made available as a $79 option on the BDP-83 and included standard on the SE), the case that was sturdy enough for rack mounting, and the need to include DVE (never mind that the BDP-83 comes with Spears & Munsil and the AIX disc). That's a threadbare basis for such a huge jump in price. The dealer network necessitates some increase in cost, but not $3,000...

Originally Posted by EWL5

The question remains of what happened to the THX certification that has disappeared from the Lexicon website. Perhaps sharp readers pointing out that the Oppo/Lexicon not being able to do an 80Hz crossover for internal bass management forced THX's hand.

I think part of the issue is a result of Audioholic's original article and its "sky is falling" tone, coupled with the very real screw-up on Lexicon's part of over-pricing a stock BDP-83 with the RS232 port and a new faceplate. There's a stink around the BD-30 now that I don't think anyone wants to get too close to. That being said, there were design changes made to the video side based on feedback from THX - that has been acknowledged by THX and Lexicon. So were other changes required, or was that enough? Does THX require that the analog output provide THX-spec bass management? If so, then there's a case to be made against certifying the BD-30. However, if part of the point behind THX certification is to have an overall THX "suite" of gear (THX source connected to THX receiver or processor and amp, in turn connected to THX speakers and sub) then it makes sense for THX to push to use the digital path - they want the THX processing functions of the receiver or surround processor to be active, and for that they need a digital audio signal from the source. Why incur additional hardware cost and additional testing procedures for a source that they don't want you using? Or, to take the debate to an obvious extreme, do they also test the composite video output?

[Nick4Blu_81]

Composite video output? No you didnt!

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by EWL5

Is this because you prefer sending a full range signal over the analog outputs or because you believe it's better for the prepro to handle bass management?

I believe the Oppo has far too many video and audio settings that should be handled by the display and the preamp/receiver, respectively.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by Gremal

I believe the Oppo has far too many video and audio settings that should be handled by the display and the preamp/receiver, respectively.

The Oppo is still supporting a target base that may not have HDMI receivers or who may own HTIB-size speakers (ie. not full range). The Lexicon crowd is the most likely to have separates and full range speakers all around. I guess Lexicon could have disabled the bass management but figured more flexibility to the end user is not necessarily a bad thing. Some people may own Carver's Sunfire CRM-2 bookshelf speakers and may need the internal bass management:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/home-...em-review.html

The point is some folks who prefer finer equipment may also indulge in smaller speakers (WAF, limited space, etc.)

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by EWL5

The point is some folks who prefer finer equipment may also indulge in smaller speakers (WAF, limited space, etc.)

Of course, but I believe the only people buying the Lexicon BD-30 will have the Lexicon pre/pro and amps as well.

[WiWavelength]

Originally Posted by Gremal

Good. Audioholics deserves to go down in flames.

Shoot the messenger much, Gremal?

You blithely impugn Audioholics based upon your own unsubstantiated assumption that Audioholics "exposed" the Lexicon BD-30 to drive Audioholics own sales of the OPPO BDP-83. Cum hoc ergo propter hoc? You use a correlation fallacy to indict Audioholics. And it makes you look like an ass, Gremal.

Audioholics, on the other hand, deserves respect for including objective test bench measurements and deconstruction photos in its reviews, including that of the BD-30.

AJ

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by WiWavelength

Shoot the messenger much, Gremal?

You blithely impugn Audioholics based upon your own unsubstantiated assumption that Audioholics "exposed" the Lexicon BD-30 to drive Audioholics own sales of the OPPO BDP-83.

Kindly point out the post where I said that. You can't. Because I never said that. So at this point you need to eat your words.

Cum hoc ergo propter hoc? You use a correlation fallacy to indict Audioholics. And it makes you look like an ass, Gremal.

Actually, by your own logic, accusing one of something they didn't say makes you look that way.

Audioholics, on the other hand, deserves respect for including objective test bench measurements and deconstruction photos in its reviews, including that of the BD-30.

There was nothing objective in the Audioholics slam party and if Audioholics did its due diligence, as Martens did, it would have been understood why Lexicon introduced the product that way. No one was in the market for this product except if they owned other Lexicon gear to begin with, and the news that it would be a rebadged Oppo emerged six months ago. Audioholics stoked you guys into a frenzy and you went around the internet acting like animals. You're still doing it.

[ZoetMB]

There was nothing objective in the Audioholics slam party and if Audioholics did its due diligence, as Martens did, it would have been understood why Lexicon introduced the product that way.

I disagree. Why Lexicon did what they did is not relevant (to me). It's what they did and at what price. I think Audioholics performed a great service regardless of any perceived conflict-of-interest and I thought their review was totally objective as it compared design and measurable results. As consumers, we deserve to know what constitutes the products we consider for purchase. Audioholics exposed that the Lexicon, aside from the case (and now we learn, perhaps the software) is a rebadged OPPO at almost 10x the price. Similarly, Consumer Reports will tell you that a Lexis is nothing more than a high-end Camry with a nicer interior.

I also don't buy that this was all about Lexicon happening to use the same manufacturer as OPPO. This isn't about a few parts. I can assure you that OPPO's design was contractually unique to OPPO and therefore, that design was licensed to Lexicon with OPPO's full knowledge and involvement. Whether it was a license from OPPO or a license from the manufacturer is an open question, but I suspect it was a license from OPPO.

I also doubt your notion that Lexicon marketed this player primarily to sell to existing Lexicon customers. That brings diminishing returns. If anything, you market a new piece of equipment hoping that new customers buy the player, like it and then buy Lexicon's other products. But even if I'm wrong, Lexicon still deserves as much criticism as they're getting for fawning off someone else's work at 10x the price.

[kingofgrills]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

I disagree. Why Lexicon did what they did is not relevant (to me). It's what they did and at what price. I think Audioholics performed a great service regardless of any perceived conflict-of-interest and I thought their review was totally objective as it compared design and measurable results. As consumers, we deserve to know what constitutes the products we consider for purchase. Audioholics exposed that the Lexicon, aside from the case (and now we learn, perhaps the software) is a rebadged OPPO at almost 10x the price. Similarly, Consumer Reports will tell you that a Lexis is nothing more than a high-end Camry with a nicer interior.

I also don't buy that this was all about Lexicon happening to use the same manufacturer as OPPO. This isn't about a few parts. I can assure you that OPPO's design was contractually unique to OPPO and therefore, that design was licensed to Lexicon with OPPO's full knowledge and involvement. Whether it was a license from OPPO or a license from the manufacturer is an open question, but I suspect it was a license from OPPO.

I also doubt your notion that Lexicon marketed this player primarily to sell to existing Lexicon customers. That brings diminishing returns. If anything, you market a new piece of equipment hoping that new customers buy the player, like it and then buy Lexicon's other products. But even if I'm wrong, Lexicon still deserves as much criticism as they're getting for fawning off someone else's work at 10x the price.

I don't believe anyone has said or insinuated that Lexicon just happened to be working with the same manufacturers as Oppo. The industry doesn't work like that. Oppo fully licensed their design and work out to Lexicon, and they worked together for their mutual benefit.

This certainly isn't the first time this has happened in the industry, and it's also far from being the last time. The sad reality is that the Lexicon player and the Oppo player are really designed for different universes, and normally they wouldn't cross paths. I think it's a shame that Lexicon didn't work on improving the audio side of the player as well, because that is the side of the standard issue player that is needing improvement. I would love to get a BDP-83 with improved audio, without having to pay for a BDP-83 Special Edition. I'm all in favor of the trickle-down theory, when it comes to electronics anyway.

My only question is this: Have the Lexicon "improvements" to the BDP-83 been in production since the release of the BDP-83, or was there a point in production where those changes were implemented. If the changes came after the BDP-83's introduction, is there a way to tell if you're buying an improved BDP-83?

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by kingofgrills

My only question is this: Have the Lexicon "improvements" to the BDP-83 been in production since the release of the BDP-83, or was there a point in production where those changes were implemented. If the changes came after the BDP-83's introduction, is there a way to tell if you're buying an improved BDP-83?

My understanding is that the improvements from the collaboration b/w Oppo, Lexicon, and THX are included in every Oppo BDP-83 ever produced. I read this from multiple sources, including a response from Jerry himself on Home Theater Review.

[gonk]

Originally Posted by kingofgrills

My only question is this: Have the Lexicon "improvements" to the BDP-83 been in production since the release of the BDP-83, or was there a point in production where those changes were implemented. If the changes came after the BDP-83's introduction, is there a way to tell if you're buying an improved BDP-83?

Originally Posted by EWL5

My understanding is that the improvements from the collaboration b/w Oppo, Lexicon, and THX are included in every Oppo BDP-83 ever produced. I read this from multiple sources, including a response from Jerry himself on Home Theater Review.

I've seen nothing that would contradict EWL5 on this, although I am not entirely clear on the matter.

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

I disagree. Why Lexicon did what they did is not relevant (to me). It's what they did and at what price. I think Audioholics performed a great service regardless of any perceived conflict-of-interest and I thought their review was totally objective as it compared design and measurable results.

If Audioholics was objective, it would have learned what Martens reported: that Lexicon collaborated on the design with Oppo, taking on at least some of the cost, and doing final assembly line and firmware work in the states (which is more expensive). Audioholics failed to report that Lexicon is going after a niche market and the BD-30 was targeting existing Lexicon customers that wanted a BD player to work with their Lexicon preamps and amps.

By failing to mention any of that and pretend that Lexicon was doing something untoward, Audioholics was able to whip up anger among many who were never in the market for a Lexicon.

As consumers, we deserve to know what constitutes the products we consider for purchase.

How was anything hidden from you about this product, ever? As long ago as July, folks were complaining that the Lexicon was just a rebadged Oppo. We already knew that. Audioholics told us nothing new.

Similarly, Consumer Reports will tell you that a Lexis is nothing more than a high-end Camry with a nicer interior.

No one needs consumer reports to tell them this. The relationship between Lexis, Toyota and Scion are a matter of public record. Further, Consumer Reports adheres to some semblance of journalistic standards. Its reporters put their articles in the proper context. They also get comments from companies before going to press with information that might harm the company's reputation. And on a final note, people in the market for a luxury auto are willing to pay a premium for some real or perceived benefit, just like Lexicon owners are willing to pay a premium for having firmware and the Lexicon badge that aligns their BD player with their other gear.

I also don't buy that this was all about Lexicon happening to use the same manufacturer as OPPO. This isn't about a few parts. I can assure you that OPPO's design was contractually unique to OPPO and therefore, that design was licensed to Lexicon with OPPO's full knowledge and involvement. Whether it was a license from OPPO or a license from the manufacturer is an open question, but I suspect it was a license from OPPO.

Read the top-posted article again. Kellom says Lexicon collaborated on some design points; Lexicon's recommendations were eventually adopted by Oppo. So Lexicon's involvement raised the bar for Oppo customers too. The companies had a relationship.

I also doubt your notion that Lexicon marketed this player primarily to sell to existing Lexicon customers. That brings diminishing returns.

Every company must "know thy market". Lexicon and Oppo have different markets and can sell at different pricepoints. With few exceptions, you will not find anyone who is in the market for a Lexicon BD player aside from existing Lexicon customers who own Lexicon amps and preamps, which is what the company is known for.

But even if I'm wrong, Lexicon still deserves as much criticism as they're getting for fawning off someone else's work at 10x the price.

The irony is that Lexicon's collaborative agreement with Oppo on the project may have allowed all Oppo customers to benefit from Lexicon's input at one-tenth the price. For that input, Lexicon is now being slammed by every half-wit who can log onto Audioholics.

[kingofgrills]

Originally Posted by EWL5

My understanding is that the improvements from the collaboration b/w Oppo, Lexicon, and THX are included in every Oppo BDP-83 ever produced. I read this from multiple sources, including a response from Jerry himself on Home Theater Review.

That's good to know, because I've been seriously considering the BDP-83 since it was released. Has anyone put together a DIY guide on how to make the BDP-83 quieter? Do that and you've matched pretty much matched the BD-30, performance-wise.

[crackinhedz]

At any rate, the video and audio performance characteristics of the Lexicon BD-30 and Oppo BDP-83 are essentially identical...

This is the only sentence that stood out to me.

...you can shove the entire Oppo into a Lexicon chasis to make it quieter, adjust the firmware, slap a THX logo on it etc, but at the end of the day...

[BeardedNinjaGuy]

I dont understand what you are trying to prove by linking this Gremal? You do realize it is not giving credit to your claims for a while now that this is not an Oppo BDP-83 inside that Lexicon BD-30? It is just a "nicer" validation of the same exact thing Audiohaulics (and many people on the various boards/reviews) stated previously that you have been denying.

The claim that Lexicon "Split the cost" of design, is really just is a nice way of saying "we paid to use your existing board layout and threw in our own firmware, and put it in a rack mount encasing".

That you think this is perfectly worth the mark up is on you, most of us do not see why this justifies the price tag increase. THX and a Rack Mount on an Oppo BDP-83 does not = another $3000 justification in my book.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by kingofgrills

Has anyone put together a DIY guide on how to make the BDP-83 quieter? Do that and you've matched pretty much matched the BD-30, performance-wise.

Have you heard many reports that say the current BDP-83's noise is not tolerable? In my home theater, the Oppo is in an audio rack about a foot away from my primary seating position. No, it's not as quiet as my Denon 3800 but I also have never thought "OMG, there's that darn Oppo grinding again!"

You should audition it in your house as I think Oppo has a 30-day money back guarantee.