Warner BD titles: No TrueHD

[JTK]

The following is some dialogue between myself and about as rock solid, reliable, credible, and unobjective of a source as you can get. This is someone who currently owns both HD formats and is incredibly hardcore.


See what you make of it:

I just got the first four titles in and unless I'm called in to work, I will commence the reviews later today. But, I thought I'd chime in on a few things first.

First a bit about the cases: the cases are not like the BD cases that Sony and LG have been using. They are the spitting image of the HD DVD cases used by Warner and Universal, except they are blue and don't have the two feet on the bottom, for what little good those did.

That's great. I really like smaller jewel cases.

Looking at the packaging my only disappointment is that the option box indicates that none of the new high resolution audio formats have been used, not even DD+. I know the Samsung player inexcusably doesn't support any of these audio formats yet, but other players are coming that will. So the BD supporter will be stuck with basic DD 5.1 in a few months too.

So even if someone throws down for the big boy hardware in October, like the Panasonic, the Pioneer Elite, or the Sony player...it simply does them no good, because the discs themselves don't even bother with ANY of the newer audio codecs?

No DD+ even?!

Sorry, that's a +1 for HD-DVD right there.

The disc comes with the usual insert, that mentions other Warner titles coming this summer. And I wanted to go ahead and hit on that for those interested. Other titles that are coming according to the insert include:

-Firewall
-16 Blocks
-The Fugitive (hopefully with corrected video over the dissapointing HD)

That would be nice, but if they use the same film transfer, it's going to probably come down to a VC-1 vs. MPEG 2 issue, and I'd probably bet on VC-1, such as it is.

-Million Dollar Baby
-Space Cowboys
-Perfect Storm
-Under Siege
-Caddyshack
-Christmas Vacation
-Swordfish
-Blazing Saddles
-Corpse Bride
-Syriana
-Full Metal Jacket
-House of Wax
-Lethal Weapon
-The Searchers

That's a LOT of discs considering the summer is starting to run short.

Yes. There's several obvious duplicate titles that are awesome on HD-DVD, like Swordfish, among others, that are really going to start bringing some meaningful A/B comparisions.

Looking forward to it!

They're not jewel cases. The size of both Sony's BD cases and these are the same, they're just shaped a little different. I think Sony's cases are a bit nicer actually. In particular the BD emblem has a sunken oval around it that gives it an embosed look with a chrome highlight rather than a silver paint that can be easily scratched off on the HD discs and now on Warner's BD discs.

I think these may be the only MPEG 2 titles that Warner releases on either format and I'm not positive that these are even MPEG 2 yet. But, Warner will be switching to VC1 on BD as well asap, as I understand it.

If The Fugitive hasn't been remastered for the BD release, it won't be worth owning on either format video wise.

I would expect all of the new titles listed as coming in BD will also be available in HD around the same time.

Good stuff!

I really can't believe they didn't throw in DD+, though. That's just senseless, imo.

It's almost a dead giveaway that these titles are going to be double dipped on sometime in the not too distant future. Can't you just feel it?

There's rumor that both Sony and Warner may remaster some of their early disappointments (ie Fugitive, Element). But, other than that, I wouldn't expect too many double dips until either has caught on. I suspect the studios priority right now is getting out as many titles as they can rather than revisiting titles that they've already done, which makes poor early releases all the more disappointing as we may have a very long wait before we see them in high def again. We're already seeing signs that production and authoring facilities are struggling to keep up. That will improve, but it'll take time.

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but I think we all know Sony's pattern on this sort of thing by now, all too well, don't we?

Ho hum version, better version, good version, great version, Superbit version ,etc. etc.

Here we go again.

I wouldn't contest that Sony is probably the worst offender when it comes to the art of the double dip. How they're not supporting the format with extended cuts of the films is a good indication of their plans; that or it implies that the elements used for the extended cuts aren't up to high definition quality. But, it would take one heck of a retooling to get me to buy Ultraviolet again. That movie looks and sounds great and features one of my favorite action actresses. But, I had a hard time sitting still through it even the first time.

Agreed 100 percent.




This is just an example of why I think the HD enthusiast who wants the best and the most choice is going to most likely have to own two players before the year is out to get the job done right.

[BTBuck1]

wait a second, the "Training Day" has the following audio tracks:
English Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1 Surround
French Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1 Surround
Spanish Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1 Surround

it's only missing the IMO pointless DolbyTruHD track.
I think the mods need to change this to NO TruHD track!

ProvenFlipper showed me on the back of the jewelcase DD+ and i'm sure he can come attest to the DD+ infact being on the disc.

And can't DD+ be played back on any DD capable receiver?

Whether you own an older audio/video (A/V) system equipped with Dolby® Digital, or a newer A/V receiver equipped with an HDMI™ connection or external line-level multichannel inputs, you are assured of a compatible, high-quality playback path.

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/techno...ital_plus.html

how credible was this source, really?

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

it's only missing the IMO pointless DolbyTruHD track.

Why pointless?

I think the mods need to change this to NO TruHD track!

Calm down...

ProvenFlipper showed me on the back of the jewelcase DD+ and i'm sure he can come attest to the DD+ infact being on the disc.

*goes to doublecheck via email...*

[BTBuck1]

UPDATE:
pwned, packaging is mislabeled...DD+ is infact not on the disc

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by JTK

Why pointless?

it's 2 channel, & nothing decodes it right now. so IMO it is pointless.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

pwn3d

I just sent those pics. His response to your last question was, and I quote:

Nope the packaging indicates that neither TrueHD nor DD+ are included, just basic DD 5.1.

In the case of Training Day you have 5.1 in English and French and Spanish 2.0.

WTF?!

This is a guy who has a slight bias towards BD even, but is very objective and rarely, if ever, makes mistakes.

Damn, this is interesting.

Brian, where did you get those pics from?

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

it's 2 channel, & nothing decodes it right now. so IMO it is pointless.

Incorrect. If you own an HD-DVD player, the player decodes it via HDMI or analogs. Granted, it's only 2 channel so THAT is pointless.

Rumors up or down that firmware can change that? Who the hell knows? SUPPOSEDLY the HD-DVD players have all the necessary hardware in place, but...like anything else...I won't believe 'til I see it.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by JTK

Brian, where did you get those pics from?

Sorry JTK, I didn't mean to make you look foolish (your source is the fool)...you just know how i hate B.S.

I'm rarely right but when I am, dammit Im gonna prove it

I took the pics off the back of provenflippers' BR disc.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

Sorry JTK, I didn't mean to make you look foolish (your source is the fool)...you just know how i hate B.S.

I'm rarely right but when I am, dammit Im gonna prove it

I took the pics off the back of provenflippers' BR disc.

Believe me: This source is no fool.

I am shocked.

*waiting for response...*


EDIT:

His response to your pictures:

Now that's interesting. The discs we received, which are final product, shirkwrapped and everything direct from Warner do not show a DD+ emblem in the lower righthand corner, nor in the dialogue box at the top.

We'll see what options are actually on the disc in a little while...

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

Sorry JTK, I didn't mean to make you look foolish (your source is the fool)...you just know how i hate B.S.

I'm rarely right but when I am, dammit Im gonna prove it

I took the pics off the back of provenflippers' BR disc.

He wants to know where the disc came from and how provenflipper got it.

Can provenflipper or you explain that without getting someone in trouble?

Believe me: NO ONE wants to see these discs skimped on any features, like DD+.

[BTBuck1]

[JTK]

Having a nice chat with Brian via IM and my source.

It looks like provenflipper got away with a gem, as Fry's must've broken street dates and my source was probably NOT given finals by Warner for testing. (Which he ain't gonna be happy about.)

So, barring something absurd, I VERY happily claim the title of this thread null and void.

[ProvenFlipper]

Originally Posted by JTK

Having a nice chat with Brian via IM and my source.

It looks like provenflipper got away with a gem, as Fry's must've broken street dates and my source was probably NOT given finals by Warner for testing. (Which he ain't gonna be happy about.)

So, barring something absurd, I VERY happily claim the title of this thread null and void.

It seems as if Fry's only holds to the release date for new movies, anything that was released before they just put out.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by ProvenFlipper

It seems as if Fry's only holds to the release date for new movies, anything that was released before they just put out.

Noted.

[JTK]

It looks like thread might be true after all.

No TrueHD. No DD+ on Warner's BD titles.

According to Chad Vardanore at Home Theater Spot and AVS, he's had direct contact with Warner, and apparently some bogus packaged BD's made the streets that falsely advertise DD+ when the discs themselves do not have it.

I'm sorry, but that's just pure @#$% if confirmed beyond any doubt.

[BTBuck1]

whats interesting is, until yesterday even high def digest listed Dolby Digital + as sound options for training day. they still list it for GN&GL
we'll see.

I still appreciate the PQ & sound of this BR disc and will purchase today.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

whats interesting is, until yesterday even high def digest listed Dolby Digital + as sound options for training day. they still list it for GN&GL
we'll see.

I still appreciate the PQ & sound of this BR disc and will purchase today.

Bottom line: People that bought Blu-Ray THIS early are getting shortchanged and screwed over.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by JTK

Bottom line: People that bought Blu-Ray THIS early are getting shortchanged and screwed over.

Funny, I feal quite the opposite. You are getting fantastic PQ (i've seen it, you havent) and a great movie. They are getting shorted an audio track and thats too bad...but you buy knowing that (barring u get one if the mislabeled-failed to be pulled discs at fry's) But to say people are getting screwed over is way over exaggerated. If i'm okay with it, i'm sure the average consumer isn't going to notice a tiny amount of artifacting in a 10 sec scene and an audio track that their current receiver doesn't support anyways. folks, this is 4 releases from WB, they all look good...and after this, they even the playing field and give BR the same content as HDDVD.
Right now it's pretty damn close and i'm not switching over to HDDVD for 4 titles that have minor caveats where the AWESOME way outweights the bad.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

Funny, I feal quite the opposite. You are getting fantastic PQ (i've seen it, you havent)

Whoops, you're wrong.

Where did you get the idea I haven't seen Blu-Ray?!

Have YOU seen HD-DVD for any appreciable amount of time?

I don't mean in torch mode there at Best Buy, either.

and a great movie. They are getting shorted an audio track and thats too bad...

And you're paying twice the price for that.

...but you buy knowing that (barring u get one if the mislabeled-failed to be pulled discs at fry's)

But to say people are getting screwed over is way over exaggerated.

No, it's not. It's a fact. Pure and simple.


These are the facts as of August 1, 2006:

You have a handful of BD discs that are comparable to HD-DVDs.

After that you have discs with all varying kinds of quality, to put it generously.


The cost of entry: One grand.


On the other hand, you have HD-DVD, with a cost of entry of $500 that gets you the best HD on the market hands down. It has some clunkers in it as well, but you can go to MANY reviews sites and see that the majority of those HD-DVD discs kick ass, unlike Blu-Ray's collection RIGHT NOW, TODAY.


These are facts, Brian, whether you like it or not, and yes I've seen both, used both, demoed both in my home and at several of my friends' home on rigs I won't ever see in ten lifetimes.

If i'm okay with it, i'm sure the average consumer isn't going to notice a tiny amount of artifacting in a 10 sec scene and an audio track that their current receiver doesn't support anyways.

Oh come on Brian. That's an excuse.

I'm happy that you're that forgiving for over $1000 on the table, but a lot of us aren't and wouldn't be.

Frankly, at this rate, I root for HD-DVD because Blu-Ray NEEDS the competition. It NEEDS a fire lit under its ass.



And average consumers aren't buying any of this stuff anyways! C'mon.

They don't even own HDTVS! Get over this.

They aren't in the picture. They are not a factor at all.

folks, this is 4 releases from WB, they all look good...and after this, they even the playing field and give BR the same content as HDDVD.

At twice the cost.

This really doesn't bother you?

Right now it's pretty damn close and i'm not switching over to HDDVD for 4 titles that have minor caveats where the AWESOME way outweights the bad.

You keep telling yourself that and maybe it'll become true. Jeezuz! C'mon man.

It's a lot more than 4 titles, by the way. Try damn near 40 or so. Most of which are better than Blu-Ray's discs right now and that's also a fact.

Sorry.

No offense, but this is one of those times where you're showing yourself to be somewhat biased and unobjective.


In general, some of the "arguments" I've seen from people that simply refuse to acknowledge that all is not well and perfect in Blu-Ray land ultimately stem from this:

Ijustboughtcrapitis - the disease that makes a person delude themself into believing the crap they just bought is the best because they spent too much money on it.

I think some of that's going on here. Although the term crap is obviously a bit harsh in this case, I think the concept is dead on.

[hmurchison]

I'm clearly an HD DVD lean but I must tell you that I'm encouraged by the quality of WB releases on Blu-Ray.

However it is a bit ironic that Warner of all companies is shipping the best media for Blu-Ray. Who would have thought that a year ago?

As of today clearly Blu-Ray is something to avoid. I think the BDA began to believe their own press releases. The Sony hype about MPEG2 looking just as good.

I think most HD lovers "want" to see both formats do well qualitatively speaking and let the market decide from the better of two quality platforms.

No I will not shut myself off to the other platform. They may choose to play politics but my needs are simple. High quality HD at an affordable price. When I move in Dec I"m not signing up with Comcast again. My HD will have to come strictly from discs and thus It behooves me to have excellent media on both platforms.

Here's to hoping that in 2007 we get two major things. 50GB DL discs and cheaper players.