Bluray Hardware sales don't include the PS3.... right?

[Ultimatallica]

How close, with the PS3 factored in, is the HDDVD/Bluray 'war' in terms of hardware?

[quetzalcoatl]

No Toshiba does not count them until they start to talk about software attach rates. Then they are there in order to lower the %.

[Ultimatallica]

Crap.

[Phane]

As far as how close they actually are, they aren't. I believe the figures are somewhat close to this.

# of HD-DVD Standalones 600,000
# of Xbox 360 Add-ons 150,000
Total # of HD-DVD Players 750,000

# of Blu-ray Standalones 450,000
# of PS3's 4,500,000
Total # of Blu-ray Players 4,950,000

Ratio of 6.6:1 for Blu-ray players to HD-DVD players in the US (estimated)

[Blu-Style]

Yeah, Toshiba & Co. loves to not include the PS3 as a Blu-ray Player...

Originally Posted by Ultimatallica

My friend is always telling people that HDDVD hardware is ahead of Bluray while Bluray sells more discs. Should I actually correct him, and maybe even get into an argument about the fact that the PS3 isn't counted? I mean, they've sold 7mill plus of those things last I heard.

I don't know if I want to, he's become a pretty bad fanboy. He sees things like '10 free Blurays with purchase of the PS3' as desperate attempts rather than an awesome sale. If anything $99 HDDVD players seems a hell of a lot more like a fire sale to me than anything Blu has ever done.

You could argue with your friend about it, but If he is a real hddvd fanboy, I guess he won´t accept the truth...

....
When the format war is over, you can do this:

[kowhite]

Originally Posted by Phane

As far as how close they actually are, they aren't. I believe the figures are somewhat close to this.

# of HD-DVD Standalones 600,000
# of Xbox 360 Add-ons 150,000
Total # of HD-DVD Players 750,000

# of Blu-ray Standalones 450,000
# of PS3's 4,500,000
Total # of Blu-ray Players 4,950,000

Ratio of 6.6:1 for Blu-ray players to HD-DVD players in the US (estimated)

The PS3 in the states is closer to 2.5 million...not 4.5.

[Ultimatallica]

Exactly. I know what it's like talking to people that will do anything to prove themselves right even when they aren't. I could show him a dozen things telling him he's wrong and he'd look up twenty showing me he's right.

[reiella]

The PS3's numbers are really awkward for considering attach rates/actively used player numbers.

Which is why it's a better idea to just look at disc sales. Less matter of trying to account for PS3s that aren't playing BDs on either metric. After all, the first two metrics are simply means to reach the actual worthwhile metric, software sales.

[turboedguy]

Funny thing is when I recomend a Blu-ray player its allways the PS3, most my friends have kids, or like gaming themselves and its a selling point, plus the web browser, media storage, etc...And its future updateable to 2.0 spec, and becides a few audio limitations, (that will be updated in a firmware patch later) and looking odd next to standard size equipment its a great deal at $399. not many players are better on that budget.(if any)

After christmas I think many parents will start buying blu-rays to play on jr's new PS3, And sales will reflect that.

[Phane]

Originally Posted by kowhite

The PS3 in the states is closer to 2.5 million...not 4.5.

Sorry, I guess I was looking at a global figure mixed in with domestic. So it would be 2,500,000 + 450,000 or 2,950,000 compared to 750,000.

A ratio of almost 4:1

[Elandyll]

The PS3 s were estimated worldwide to a little over 5million, back in october, still aiming at 11 million by the end of the year (comparison: Xbox360 sold 12million units ... in 2 years)
http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/ne...00500000000016
2 million units alone in NA at the end of october.

Let's take Toshiba 's "attachment rate" (lol) to have a low estimate, at 20% of PS3 owners using their PS3 as a player, and we have a nifty 400.000 PS3 blu players (for US / 1.000.000 world) minimum.
According to Sony (and the more recenly published % number of PS3 owners who know their console plays Blu Ray, disclosed by Tosh themselve), it's closer to 40% (again back in october), which then would give us 800.000 PS3 Blu players used (for the US - 2.000.000 world).
Far (to say the least) ahead of Toshiba in either case, when you cumulate standalones + PS3 blu Rays.

If Toshiba is at 800.000 world, I think it's a max estimation (and their actual goal for the year). When you count PS3s used as Blu Ray player (and that ratio will grow with SM3), and standalones, I estimate that there are easily 2.5-3 million actively used Blu Ray players in the world right now.

[jorg]

Originally Posted by Phane

As far as how close they actually are, they aren't. I believe the figures are somewhat close to this.

# of HD-DVD Standalones 600,000
# of Xbox 360 Add-ons 150,000
Total # of HD-DVD Players 750,000

# of Blu-ray Standalones 450,000
# of PS3's 4,500,000
Total # of Blu-ray Players 4,950,000

Ratio of 6.6:1 for Blu-ray players to HD-DVD players in the US (estimated)

hes rite that the word in the sony offices

[MallardRider]

Toshiba has to be smoking something if they're claiming that the PS3 is "not a Blu-ray player".

[JAGUAR1977]

I was in a discussion yesterday on HDD with some HD-DVD owners who seemed to believe HD-DVD sold more A2's during the $99 sales than Blu-ray standalones have been sold in TOTAL, these past 18 months.

Some seem to be under the very real impression HD-DVD will be selling many hundreds of thousands of players this Q4, while you could literally count on one hand the number of Blu-ray standalones sold, despite actual sales being close to 50/50 before the firesale.

Sad thing is, I think they really belive this, and ignore the facts that are freely available to everyone.

[Phane]

Originally Posted by JAGUAR1977

I was in a discussion yesterday on HDD with some HD-DVD owners who seemed to believe HD-DVD sold more A2's during the $99 sales than Blu-ray standalones have been sold in TOTAL, these past 18 months.

Some seem to be under the very real impression HD-DVD will be selling many hundreds of thousands of players this Q4, while you could literally count on one hand the number of Blu-ray standalones sold, despite actual sales being close to 50/50 before the firesale.

Sad thing is, I think they really belive this, and ignore the facts that are freely available to everyone.

Yeah, I've been reading HD-DVD people on HDD claiming that there will have easily been 250k HD-DVD players sold on Black Friday alone... Considering that Toshiba is aiming at 600k units sold since inception by x-mas, I'd say that's a bit off base.

[sphdle1]

Originally Posted by MallardRider

Toshiba has to be smoking something if they're claiming that the PS3 is "not a Blu-ray player".

I agree. The PS3 is probably the single biggest reason why Blu software sales took off, passed HD-DVD, and why Blu is winning and eventually will win the war...not a Blu player..? LMAO

[JAGUAR1977]

Originally Posted by Phane

Yeah, I've been reading HD-DVD people on HDD claiming that there will have easily been 250k HD-DVD players sold on Black Friday alone... Considering that Toshiba is aiming at 600k units sold since inception by x-mas, I'd say that's a bit off base.

Well, how can we argue with such logic:-

HiDeFJunKie

But its true ... unlike most of what you post.

What's untrue about my posts?

-A2 sold about 100K during the Walmart sale
-HD A3 has sold a staggering number of units with the 10 movie promo
-HDDVD is a finalized product while BLURAY is just releasing Profile 1.1
-If Toshiba sells 500K units during the holidays, at 20% the PS3 will need to sell 2.5 million to keep the status quo
-The BDA used a BOGO to skew the numbers, giving them a ''victory'' over Transformers and only at 51:49-1 frigging percent differnce
-PS3 is a 3rd place videogame system in America with no killer apps this Christmas

Tell me which of these are fiction and prove why? Because this is what I usually bring up in my arguments!

It's like banging your head against a BRICK WALL!

[Elandyll]

Originally Posted by sphdle1

I agree. The PS3 is probably the single biggest reason why Blu software sales took off, passed HD-DVD, and why Blu is winning and eventually will win the war...not a Blu player..? LMAO

Your use of logic will lead you nowhere with a HD DVD fanboy

If he is talking about number of titles sold per Blu Ray player, of course the PS3s are Blu Ray players. ALL of them.

Now if we try to estimate how many players are actively used as Blu Ray players, then NONE of them count, evidently, as everyone knows that nobody in their right mind would use a console to watch movies... But wait ... in the attachment rate thingy, he just said ... Yeah...

/shoots self

Reality check: several million PS3s used across the planet to watch Blu Ray, and number increasing exponentially with now SM3 included with the 40gb models...

What I wonder is .. what's Toshiba's plan for Xmas '08, if they are still around?

By then, some Blu Ray players will be below the symbolical $200 line or close.
What then? How much lower than $98 can Tosh go? Give them HD DVD players away? (some could say they already do with some promos)
I see combos VHS- DVD player for that price right now, and combos VHS / DVD recorder for about $200, making little sense compared with a brand new high tech technology... Which shows Tosh has no long term plan actually.

[Elandyll]

Originally Posted by JAGUAR1977

Well, how can we argue with such logic:-



It's like banging you head against a BRICK WALL!

Dun know where this HDJunkie operates, but this is what I would answer

-A2 sold about 100K during the Walmart sale
Literally free stuff generally goes away easily (5 free HD DVDs = worth more than $98). Amazing how those sales ended up not having any effect on the Software sales though eh ? - weeks following sale: 71:29, 65:35 and 66:34 all in Blu Ray favor.

-HD A3 has sold a staggering number of units with the 10 movie promo
Any factual info on that? What is "staggering"? 20k ? 30k ?

-HDDVD is a finalized product while BLURAY is just releasing Profile 1.1
It is SO finalized that they already dumped an additional format they were working on (TL-45) and are trying to finalize another one (TL-51), and despite this last one being officially "approved", nobody knows if it's going to run on existing hardware. Blu Ray sees additional features being added, but backward compatible for the movie playing experience, at least.

-If Toshiba sells 500K units during the holidays, at 20% the PS3 will need to sell 2.5 million to keep the status quo
And if the moon explodes, the oceans will see huge tsunamis and Earth will be majorly affected. 500k? Why not a million or two? Toshiba is expecting between 600k to 800k total for the year, more realistically. Although they alredy had to take their estimations down twice so far (from 1M to 800k to 600k-800k). 20% is Toshiba's version of PS3 used as Blu Ray. More recent numbers (by both Sony and Gfk) suggest actually something closer to 40% using their PS3s as Blu Ray players. If Sony sees about 10M consoles sold this year (they still maintain an objective of 11M apparently), that's 4M Blu Ray players. Add the Blu Ray standalones (who were never that far off the units sold by Tosh, at least until they decided to give them away), and HD DVD is dead in the water.

-The BDA used a BOGO to skew the numbers, giving them a ''victory'' over Transformers and only at 51:49-1 frigging percent differnce
You mean ... like Tosh/Uni/Para doing a Bogo when Rat launched?
In any case, for a week where Blu Ray had no major release (TF week), that's still pathetic. Same for last week (pre Die Hard 4), with a 66:34 on Shrek 3 week.

-PS3 is a 3rd place videogame system in America with no killer apps this Christmas.
PS3s are selling like crazy, and you amazingly forget to specify that the Xbox360 started off a year before it. So far (before the $399 PS3), the PS3 has pretty much matched the Xbox 360 in sales, expect to see it take a lead by the end of '07
And no killer apps end of year and coming? Yeah ... UT3, MGS4, GoW3, CoD4, Assassin's Creed, Uncharted.. among others.

[JAGUAR1977]

I answered before, now I'm trying to stay away, just winds me up, lol.

It seems like EVERY HD-DVD supporter is some kind of extremist, no logic whatsoever!

I'm sure they're not, it just comes over that way, maybe it's the insecurity behind buying a losing format?