HDM Vs HD Downloads - Blu-ray Forum

Beta-guy · 12-05-2007, 08:48 AM

I was just involved in a debate, on this topic, and something has me upset, BD is leading there is no doubt, I question why the HD-DVD fanboys hang on as tight as they do the format isn't as good specs wise, the sales are lower etc... we've all heard these arguments b4 (and they sound good) however we've also heard claims that MS support HD-DVD to cause a stalemate and bring in HD downloads VIA Xbox live or something, during the debate I was having some one pointed out that Apple has yet to include a Blu-ray drive on thier products. with things like Apple TV and Itunes, the possibility is there that Apple could support HD Downloads.

I'm not saying that Apple or even Microsoft will get studio's to do HD Downloads, I went thought the math in terms of bandwidth and file sizes, it's incredible if it can be done, but I still want a physical medium to hold the movies that I buy. I don't like being depending on another corporation just to watch the movies I own.

all of that said, are we safe from HD downloads (will BD win over HD-DVD and downloads in time to stop the format war)?

partridge · 12-05-2007, 08:52 AM

I just can't see anyone downloading a 40Gb file to watch a movie!! There has to be some compression involved in which case it's just a cheat, not true HD. I'll be buying on disc for the foreseeable future, certainly until we get 100mb broadband (which may not ever happen in the UK)

Zazou · 12-05-2007, 08:53 AM

From an article posted today on thinkbroadband

The XBox 360 is set to try and cement itself as the centre of digital media entertainment with the UK launch of its XBox LIVE Marketplace Video store on the 11th December as detailed over at xboxer.tv. A blog on The Guardian has a list of some of the films expected to be available at launch.

Pricing is around £3 for a high definition movie download and down to around £2 for a standard definition film. If similar bit rates as are used in the USA are used in the UK, a two hour movie may weigh in at 5GB (gigabytes). Dropping to standard definition sees the size fall to around 1.6GB.

A 5GB download will take quite a while to download. On a 0.5Mbps (megabits per second) connection, it will take a full 24 hours to download assuming the connection can run flat out; on a 10Mbps connection it will be around 1.5 hours. With the way some providers run their fair use policies, people may see the first half of a film download quickly to find speeds drop significantly once over the magical limit which is often not published or varies from day to day. These figures all ignore the potential for slow downs due to other people using their broadband connections too.

Clearly even a 5GB file will have loads of compression applied to it.

CGYBLU · 12-05-2007, 08:59 AM

I hate the downloading for purchase concept on the whole. iTunes, the xbox stuff...etc.

Why not own something physical and tangible that will give you the best quality. I hate the idea of paying for a song on iTunes and getting some "good enough" compressed garbage when I could just buy the CD.

The same holds for HD. I want the disc, I want the quality. I guess I see exactly why M$ is pushing the downloaded HD bs, since the HD DUD quality is supposed to be "good enough", why not compress it some more and spit it out over an over loaded and slow connection?

Banjo · 12-05-2007, 09:03 AM

It's practically impossible for downloadable movies in HD to go mainstream. Not with the bandwidth caps and imagine the strain it would put onto the servers everywhere.

Oh the horrors.

hc666 · 12-05-2007, 12:38 PM

I will never download a movie. Limited selection, probably no extras, likely compressed video and audio... if i'm going to pay for something I want to own it on a disc.

VOD is stupid.

SDG · 12-05-2007, 12:48 PM

Our plant has a T1 connection. It does not matter though cause the intermediate net cant handle it. My personal connection is a 1gig download potential. The PSN update takes 15 minutes to down load. It is what, 500meg.

The Don · 12-05-2007, 12:55 PM

I'm personally not a fan of the iPhone, ipod, Zune and all of that stuff...

downloading movies will only allow more pirating...

MS allows loopholes in their systems so things can be hacked and it makes money go around when people have to keep buying new versions of things that should already work the first time...

going directly to downloading movies will cause problems unless things change and that will be somewhere around 2015 IMO...it's going to take time...

but MS is trying to bring movie downloads much sooner than that....

SamInNorthCakalakey · 12-05-2007, 01:01 PM

When I watch trailers on Quicktime.com 98% of the time I choose the large standard trailer to view. Who wants to wait 2-3 minutes for this 3-5 min trailer to download. Yes, the quality is pretty good for 20" LCD but not "good enough" for 42" LCD. And let's not get started on Lossless Audio.

I think this goes into the HD DUD thinking. They believe that that stuff is good enough and that nobody wants true high bitrate 1080p or lossless audio. Not sure what their marketing people are telling them but they aren't reading anything on this site.

ps3andlovinit · 12-05-2007, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

It's practically impossible for downloadable movies in HD to go mainstream. Not with the bandwidth caps and imagine the strain it would put onto the servers everywhere.

Oh the horrors.

It's a setup..and consumers are the fall guys..MS gets to charge you for the content and the hidden cost no one is talking about...which is..

Right now most people rarely if ever exceed their download limit..with the scenario above your blowing thru it and will be charged for every extra byte...the fact that MS has significant investments in Cable and Telephone providers is the other part they want to hide..those "cheap" downloads will cost you a lot more than you think .. it's content rental fee + $/per byte download fee = more than buying a disc for a download that provides no ownership and inferior quality.

DVD prices have gone down over the years..when has that ever happened for your cable or telephone fees?

maximiza · 12-05-2007, 01:36 PM

Downloads BITE THE BIG ONE! You can't lend to a friend or resell if you wish. It is the ultimate robbery from your pockets.

hc666 · 12-05-2007, 01:54 PM

Pirates bother me, along with their lame excuses. As a collector the thought of downloading destroying the Cd industry or even the Blu ray industry sickens me.

Also hate iphones, ipods or anything like that. When I buy something I was the case, booklets and the best quality.

bilbravo · 12-05-2007, 01:59 PM

To support the theory that HD downloads are VERY far away as mainstream, there are several places where anything better than a 56k dial-up connection is impossible. Until broadband is available to everyone, this cannot happen. Movie studios will not want to snuff out available consumers.

glenn22 · 12-05-2007, 02:31 PM

HD downloads if available any time soon would be a very bad thing for movie enthusiasts. To achieve the quality level of Blu-ray, the file would have to be up to 50GB in size. There is NO WAY that anyone would wait the hours and perhaps DAYS (depending on connection) it would take to download that much data, so in order to download HD with todays Internet connections, it would have to be SEVERELY compressed, or SEVERELY reduced quality, or both. Also, no one would be able to keep copies on their local drives for long as it would take up way too much space.

dpomp · 12-05-2007, 02:51 PM

i think most HD-DVD supporters are XBOX fanboys and don't want to lose the format war because it will make it look like Playstation is beating XBOX. I think to alot of people it's not so much a movie format war as it is a console war. I mean if you really think about it, this war would be over already if MS made a BLU-RAY add on instead of an HD.

Now I know there are people that don't care about either consle and are strictly for BLU or HD, but if you start putting opposing media on opposing consoles, it's going to drag the console fanboys into the war.

I think that even though BLU is winning and really this war should be over HD fans are going to never admit it because most are scared of a defeat to Playstation. If you look at all the 360 extremists out there, they will never admit to losing to Playstation, they constantly badmouth Playstation and everything about Sony therefore Blu-ray

Thegide · 12-05-2007, 05:11 PM

I don't have the patience now to seek out and download free overcompressed DVD rips at 700mb apiece. I sure as hell won't even think of downloading a movie in HD.

Half the fun of owning media is having a nice case to put it in, and being able to lend it out to friends and such. What am I supposed to do, loan out my external HDD loaded with movies? Lame.

love blu or go home! · 12-05-2007, 05:35 PM

Well I can see HD downloads work, a 50GB file should take about 3 Days 5 Hours 16 Minutes 11.46 Seconds on my cable connection so that's just about the time movies take to get to me from Amazon. Now I would love to have all my movies on one movie server that I can watch through the house I mean who wouldn't? I also don't have to worry about losing the disc or it being borrowed and not given back. Plus Fios is in my area now and I was thinking about upgrading that means a 50GB file would take 11 Hours 55 Minutes 49.67 Seconds that's a lot better then Amazon.

Kristin Simard · 12-05-2007, 05:43 PM

Riiiiiiight!

I want to download Ken Burn's The Civil War, The War, and maybe throw in Jazz too. Can I get one of them ready to see this evening when I have friends over?

dipset420 · 12-05-2007, 05:48 PM

Here are the reasons its stupid to download.

1. Can not let friends borrow it
2. If you hardware fails no more movies to watch for you
3. The time it takes to download
4. Shutting down stores because there is no movies to buy and people lose their jobs. among a lot of the movie rental stores that went out of business because of things like netflix.
5. I have IO digital cable and there is constant problems with it, and last night i tried to demand an episode of dexter and it wouldnt work, kept getting error messages, so after trying to demand it 8 times in 3 hrs it finally worked
6. if its like XBL marketplace you pay about 5 dollars for a movie you only get for 24hrs so if you want to watch a movie multiple times be prepared to pay A LOT of money instead of payiong 20 dollars to own it forever.
7. and it would probably turn into a digital media war where certain companies have exclusive movies just like right now with blu and dud

many more reasons too but i think that enough

Kristin Simard · 12-05-2007, 05:54 PM

If you are like me and you travel a lot, it's a lot easier to take a box of discs with you than have to take your whole computer/home entertainment server with you. Or to download 50 films all over again, paying all over again.

Forget it !

Go Blu-ray disc!

12-05-2007, 08:48 AM	#1
Beta-guy Expert Member Member since:Jul 2007 Blu-ray collection:23 Blu-ray reviews:1	HDM Vs HD Downloads I was just involved in a debate, on this topic, and something has me upset, BD is leading there is no doubt, I question why the HD-DVD fanboys hang on as tight as they do the format isn't as good specs wise, the sales are lower etc... we've all heard these arguments b4 (and they sound good) however we've also heard claims that MS support HD-DVD to cause a stalemate and bring in HD downloads VIA Xbox live or something, during the debate I was having some one pointed out that Apple has yet to include a Blu-ray drive on thier products. with things like Apple TV and Itunes, the possibility is there that Apple could support HD Downloads. I'm not saying that Apple or even Microsoft will get studio's to do HD Downloads, I went thought the math in terms of bandwidth and file sizes, it's incredible if it can be done, but I still want a physical medium to hold the movies that I buy. I don't like being depending on another corporation just to watch the movies I own. all of that said, are we safe from HD downloads (will BD win over HD-DVD and downloads in time to stop the format war)?

12-05-2007, 05:35 PM	#17
love blu or go home! Active Member Member since:Oct 2007 Location:NYC, New York Trading Score:3	Well I can see HD downloads work, a 50GB file should take about 3 Days 5 Hours 16 Minutes 11.46 Seconds on my cable connection so that's just about the time movies take to get to me from Amazon. Now I would love to have all my movies on one movie server that I can watch through the house I mean who wouldn't? I also don't have to worry about losing the disc or it being borrowed and not given back. Plus Fios is in my area now and I was thinking about upgrading that means a 50GB file would take 11 Hours 55 Minutes 49.67 Seconds that's a lot better then Amazon. Last edited by love blu or go home!; 12-05-2007 at 05:37 PM.

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12-05-2007, 08:52 AM	#2
partridge Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Oct 2005 Location:England	I just can't see anyone downloading a 40Gb file to watch a movie!! There has to be some compression involved in which case it's just a cheat, not true HD. I'll be buying on disc for the foreseeable future, certainly until we get 100mb broadband (which may not ever happen in the UK)

12-05-2007, 08:53 AM	#3
Zazou Active Member Member since:Sep 2007 Location:United Kingdom	From an article posted today on thinkbroadband The XBox 360 is set to try and cement itself as the centre of digital media entertainment with the UK launch of its XBox LIVE Marketplace Video store on the 11th December as detailed over at xboxer.tv. A blog on The Guardian has a list of some of the films expected to be available at launch. Pricing is around £3 for a high definition movie download and down to around £2 for a standard definition film. If similar bit rates as are used in the USA are used in the UK, a two hour movie may weigh in at 5GB (gigabytes). Dropping to standard definition sees the size fall to around 1.6GB. A 5GB download will take quite a while to download. On a 0.5Mbps (megabits per second) connection, it will take a full 24 hours to download assuming the connection can run flat out; on a 10Mbps connection it will be around 1.5 hours. With the way some providers run their fair use policies, people may see the first half of a film download quickly to find speeds drop significantly once over the magical limit which is often not published or varies from day to day. These figures all ignore the potential for slow downs due to other people using their broadband connections too. Clearly even a 5GB file will have loads of compression applied to it.

12-05-2007, 08:59 AM	#4
CGYBLU Active Member Member since:Sep 2007 Blu-ray reviews:1	I hate the downloading for purchase concept on the whole. iTunes, the xbox stuff...etc. Why not own something physical and tangible that will give you the best quality. I hate the idea of paying for a song on iTunes and getting some "good enough" compressed garbage when I could just buy the CD. The same holds for HD. I want the disc, I want the quality. I guess I see exactly why M$ is pushing the downloaded HD bs, since the HD DUD quality is supposed to be "good enough", why not compress it some more and spit it out over an over loaded and slow connection?

12-05-2007, 09:03 AM	#5
Banjo Blu-ray Guru Member since:Dec 2006 Location:Ontario, Canada Blu-ray collection:143	It's practically impossible for downloadable movies in HD to go mainstream. Not with the bandwidth caps and imagine the strain it would put onto the servers everywhere. Oh the horrors.

12-05-2007, 12:38 PM	#6
hc666 Blu-ray Guru Member since:Nov 2007 Home Theater Gallery:7 Blu-ray collection:100 Blu-ray reviews: 26	I will never download a movie. Limited selection, probably no extras, likely compressed video and audio... if i'm going to pay for something I want to own it on a disc. VOD is stupid.

12-05-2007, 12:48 PM	#7
SDG Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Sep 2007 Location:Arkansas	Our plant has a T1 connection. It does not matter though cause the intermediate net cant handle it. My personal connection is a 1gig download potential. The PSN update takes 15 minutes to down load. It is what, 500meg.

12-05-2007, 12:55 PM	#8
The Don Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Apr 2006 Blu-ray reviews:12 Trading Score:2	I'm personally not a fan of the iPhone, ipod, Zune and all of that stuff... downloading movies will only allow more pirating... MS allows loopholes in their systems so things can be hacked and it makes money go around when people have to keep buying new versions of things that should already work the first time... going directly to downloading movies will cause problems unless things change and that will be somewhere around 2015 IMO...it's going to take time... but MS is trying to bring movie downloads much sooner than that....

12-05-2007, 01:01 PM	#9
SamInNorthCakalakey Active Member Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Raleigh/Durham, NC area Blu-ray reviews:19	When I watch trailers on Quicktime.com 98% of the time I choose the large standard trailer to view. Who wants to wait 2-3 minutes for this 3-5 min trailer to download. Yes, the quality is pretty good for 20" LCD but not "good enough" for 42" LCD. And let's not get started on Lossless Audio. I think this goes into the HD DUD thinking. They believe that that stuff is good enough and that nobody wants true high bitrate 1080p or lossless audio. Not sure what their marketing people are telling them but they aren't reading anything on this site.

12-05-2007, 01:36 PM	#11
maximiza Active Member Member since:Sep 2007 Location:Queens Village, NYC	Downloads BITE THE BIG ONE! You can't lend to a friend or resell if you wish. It is the ultimate robbery from your pockets.

12-05-2007, 01:54 PM	#12
hc666 Blu-ray Guru Member since:Nov 2007 Home Theater Gallery:7 Blu-ray collection:100 Blu-ray reviews: 26	Pirates bother me, along with their lame excuses. As a collector the thought of downloading destroying the Cd industry or even the Blu ray industry sickens me. Also hate iphones, ipods or anything like that. When I buy something I was the case, booklets and the best quality.

12-05-2007, 01:59 PM	#13
bilbravo Expert Member Member since:Oct 2007 Location:MD, USA Blu-ray collection:28	To support the theory that HD downloads are VERY far away as mainstream, there are several places where anything better than a 56k dial-up connection is impossible. Until broadband is available to everyone, this cannot happen. Movie studios will not want to snuff out available consumers.

12-05-2007, 02:31 PM	#14
glenn22 Power Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Vancouver, Canada	HD downloads if available any time soon would be a very bad thing for movie enthusiasts. To achieve the quality level of Blu-ray, the file would have to be up to 50GB in size. There is NO WAY that anyone would wait the hours and perhaps DAYS (depending on connection) it would take to download that much data, so in order to download HD with todays Internet connections, it would have to be SEVERELY compressed, or SEVERELY reduced quality, or both. Also, no one would be able to keep copies on their local drives for long as it would take up way too much space.

12-05-2007, 02:51 PM	#15
dpomp ₯ Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Texas PSN: dpomp131 Blu-ray collection:231 Trading Score:19	i think most HD-DVD supporters are XBOX fanboys and don't want to lose the format war because it will make it look like Playstation is beating XBOX. I think to alot of people it's not so much a movie format war as it is a console war. I mean if you really think about it, this war would be over already if MS made a BLU-RAY add on instead of an HD. Now I know there are people that don't care about either consle and are strictly for BLU or HD, but if you start putting opposing media on opposing consoles, it's going to drag the console fanboys into the war. I think that even though BLU is winning and really this war should be over HD fans are going to never admit it because most are scared of a defeat to Playstation. If you look at all the 360 extremists out there, they will never admit to losing to Playstation, they constantly badmouth Playstation and everything about Sony therefore Blu-ray

12-05-2007, 05:11 PM	#16
Thegide Senior Member Member since:Nov 2007 Location:Ottawa, ON	I don't have the patience now to seek out and download free overcompressed DVD rips at 700mb apiece. I sure as hell won't even think of downloading a movie in HD. Half the fun of owning media is having a nice case to put it in, and being able to lend it out to friends and such. What am I supposed to do, loan out my external HDD loaded with movies? Lame.

12-05-2007, 05:43 PM	#18
Kristin Simard Special Member Member since:Aug 2007	Riiiiiiight! I want to download Ken Burn's The Civil War, The War, and maybe throw in Jazz too. Can I get one of them ready to see this evening when I have friends over?

12-05-2007, 05:48 PM	#19
dipset420 Active Member Member since:Oct 2006	Here are the reasons its stupid to download. 1. Can not let friends borrow it 2. If you hardware fails no more movies to watch for you 3. The time it takes to download 4. Shutting down stores because there is no movies to buy and people lose their jobs. among a lot of the movie rental stores that went out of business because of things like netflix. 5. I have IO digital cable and there is constant problems with it, and last night i tried to demand an episode of dexter and it wouldnt work, kept getting error messages, so after trying to demand it 8 times in 3 hrs it finally worked 6. if its like XBL marketplace you pay about 5 dollars for a movie you only get for 24hrs so if you want to watch a movie multiple times be prepared to pay A LOT of money instead of payiong 20 dollars to own it forever. 7. and it would probably turn into a digital media war where certain companies have exclusive movies just like right now with blu and dud many more reasons too but i think that enough

12-05-2007, 05:54 PM	#20
Kristin Simard Special Member Member since:Aug 2007	If you are like me and you travel a lot, it's a lot easier to take a box of discs with you than have to take your whole computer/home entertainment server with you. Or to download 50 films all over again, paying all over again. Forget it ! Go Blu-ray disc!

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