Help settle a argument - Blu-ray Forum

hijeff1 · 01-17-2008, 04:16 PM

Yesterday I was having a argument at work. Basically the argument was that everyone knows how much I'm into Blu Ray. I go on and on about Blu Ray all the time, but one of the guys at work said that Blu Ray is junk because how do you take a movie made either 5 years ago or 20 years ago and make it High Def. It wasn't filmed like that so its all abunch of garbage. And that Blu Ray was a complete wast of money.

Can someone please help me in explaining how this is done?

CptGreedle · 01-17-2008, 04:18 PM

it was filed at higher quality than a Blu-ray.
Blu-ray is 1080... film is either 2k or 4k. that is much more.
The fact is, DVDs are dumbed down so much that they have very little of the original film left, thy are only 480. (these numbers are lines of information)
When they make a Blu-ray, they go back to the FILM, and make a new digital copy in HD. That is why some of them have grain and the like.

nhaase · 01-17-2008, 04:20 PM

Also, since film is a chemical process, it's not actually "pixels."

CptGreedle · 01-17-2008, 04:23 PM

Lets see if I can make this more clear...

This is the resolution of a DVD in USA and UK (NTSC in USA, PAL in UK), and both standard HD formats. Blu-ray is the 1080 format.
Film is much bigger than this.

This shows SD, HD, and theater quality (film). 2K is close to 1080, but 4k is far more. Beyond this there is IMAX, which is about 10000 x 7000 pixels.

A DVD is only using NTSC, or 480i. A Blu-ray uses 1080p, or Full HD. To get the quality, they have to go back to the original source and resample the entire film to extract the information that the DVD does not have. This not only adds to the video, but also the sound, allowing for more channels of sound (up to 7.1 on Blu-ray) and better quality sound too.

seto · 01-17-2008, 04:26 PM

I am afraid your friend at work doesn't understand that the original film in which the movie was captured on has a much higher definition than DVD's. Of course, over time, higher quality film comes out and film degrades.

Blu-ray ports go back to the original film and people commit a lot of time and attention to cleaning the picture and audio up before they encode the video and audio onto a master for replication.

Think of it this way. You take a high quality video and compress it with real media high-compression-format versus Xvid low-compression-format. The RM format is going to be much poorer than the Xvid format because it is forced to carry much lower amount of data. Of course, both of these don't compare to the original high quality video.

Scorxpion · 01-17-2008, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hijeff1

Yesterday I was having a argument at work. Basically the argument was that everyone knows how much I'm into Blu Ray. I go on and on about Blu Ray all the time, but one of the guys at work said that Blu Ray is junk because how do you take a movie made either 5 years ago or 20 years ago and make it High Def. It wasn't filmed like that so its all abunch of garbage. And that Blu Ray was a complete wast of money.

Can someone please help me in explaining how this is done?

i call him a retarted person.Maybe you should let him watch Unforgiven how does look on BD now

davidPS3 · 01-17-2008, 04:28 PM

Very nice lesson. He should be able to use this as his back up. Either the guys are work are going to say WOW, or they will take the low road and act like a red team member...................

mystiksuicide · 01-17-2008, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hijeff1

Yesterday I was having a argument at work. Basically the argument was that everyone knows how much I'm into Blu Ray. I go on and on about Blu Ray all the time, but one of the guys at work said that Blu Ray is junk because how do you take a movie made either 5 years ago or 20 years ago and make it High Def. It wasn't filmed like that so its all abunch of garbage. And that Blu Ray was a complete wast of money.

Can someone please help me in explaining how this is done?

Tell him he is absolutely right and that he should go to BB and buy an hd dvd player.

glenn22 · 01-17-2008, 04:28 PM

To those type of people you can talk and talk and talk, but a picture is worth a thousand words. Show him the SD-DVD and the Blu-ray of the same movie... that will say it all.

CptGreedle · 01-17-2008, 04:33 PM

It is important to note that older films that were out before Blu-ray were in the 2k or 4k formats. What happens is they squeeze the image down to a much smaller size, and you loose a lot of information to do that. So DVDs only have 1/6th of the data a 2k has, or less.
When a BD is released, they go back to the original film, scan it at a much higher resolution than before picked up all those details that you can not see n a DVD or a standard definition TV, as well as sound that a DVD system can not support, and re-encode it. The result is a much higher quality image with far more details, in fact 6 times the amount of information than a DVD has.
It takes a long time to fix up the images and the sound of these older films, but they do it! And the result is something much better than you have ever seen before, even in a movie theater.

Hope this all helps! Tell us what he says.

fattyslimslim · 01-17-2008, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scorxpion

i call him a retarted person.Maybe you should let him watch Unforgiven how does look on BD now

Have him watch The Searchers.

It looks awesome, and even has footage of the original release on the disc. Absolutely unreal how the BD looks compared to how it was originally release....

Weez_Dawg · 01-17-2008, 04:41 PM

Sorry, but I am going to put myself on the firing line here, but I am going to raise the bs flag. If everything everyone says here is true than why do they advertise "Crank" and "Casino Royal" as well as "Planet Earth" and "Ice Road Truckers" as being the first movies/shows to be shot in Full HD??? I know I might be setting myself but answer me that.

dobyblue · 01-17-2008, 04:42 PM

Tell him to read this article about how Blade Runner from 1982 was scanned at 4,000 lines of resolution thanks to the analog nature of film.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/fea...d-is-made.html

dobyblue · 01-17-2008, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weez_Dawg

Sorry, but I am going to put myself on the firing line here, but I am going to raise the bs flag. If everything everyone says here is true than why do they advertise "Crank" and "Casino Royal" as well as "Planet Earth" and "Ice Road Truckers" as being the first movies/shows to be shot in Full HD??? I know I might be setting myself but answer me that.

They're talking about HD cameras that are digital, not film.

Weez_Dawg · 01-17-2008, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobyblue

They're talking about HD cameras that are digital, not film.

Doh....I knew that, I have just been drinking too much Micheal Bay juice (formally known as Jesus juice).

DisneyKrayzie · 01-17-2008, 05:15 PM

I think a good example to use is photography. I have recently begun scanning old photographs to digital to store on my computer. The photographs as some said above are a chemical reaction like movie film. A few years ago I would scan them in using a cheap scanner with a resolution of about 200dpi (highest my scanner would go at the time) and the results were not too bad, it gave a descent digital image. Now I have a better scanner i scan the images at 600dpi, and wow what a difference. From what I understand that is similar to how they get video for DVD or Blu-Ray, for DVD they were just "scanning" at a lower resolution, and now Blu-Ray is capable of "scanning" a higher resolution much closer to the original film, but still not even as good.

richteer · 01-17-2008, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hijeff1

Yesterday I was having a argument at work. Basically the argument was that everyone knows how much I'm into Blu Ray. I go on and on about Blu Ray all the time, but one of the guys at work said that Blu Ray is junk because how do you take a movie made either 5 years ago or 20 years ago and make it High Def. It wasn't filmed like that so its all abunch of garbage. And that Blu Ray was a complete wast of money.

Can someone please help me in explaining how this is done?

Tell your friends that they're so wrong it's not funny, and then have them over to compare Blade Runner on DVD and Blu-ray.

If they're still not convinced, tell 'em to buy an HD DVD player. :-)

DisneyKrayzie · 01-17-2008, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richteer

If they're still not convinced, tell 'em to buy an HD DVD player. :-)

I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy

Anthony P · 01-19-2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Doh....I knew that, I have just been drinking too much Micheal Bay juice (formally known as Jesus juice).

not at all, there is only one guy that posts real stupid stuff and then blames it on being drunk, and that is that HD DVD salesman Dtivo (or something like that)

mtl007 · 01-19-2008, 05:23 PM

If you have used programs like photoshop, you understand there are similar programs out there for movies where you can do digital enhancements like lighting, constrast, color, de-noise, sharpen edges, etc. As long as you don't overdo it, a re-mastering process will enhance picture quality.

01-17-2008, 04:16 PM	#1
hijeff1 Active Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Long Island, NY 4K collection:144 Blu-ray collection:341 DVD collection:153 Blu-ray reviews:4 Trading Score:3	Help settle a argument Yesterday I was having a argument at work. Basically the argument was that everyone knows how much I'm into Blu Ray. I go on and on about Blu Ray all the time, but one of the guys at work said that Blu Ray is junk because how do you take a movie made either 5 years ago or 20 years ago and make it High Def. It wasn't filmed like that so its all abunch of garbage. And that Blu Ray was a complete wast of money. Can someone please help me in explaining how this is done?

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01-17-2008, 04:18 PM	#2
CptGreedle Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Sworn super-hero now services Atlanta (and suburbs). Blu-ray collection:128 Blu-ray reviews:5	it was filed at higher quality than a Blu-ray. Blu-ray is 1080... film is either 2k or 4k. that is much more. The fact is, DVDs are dumbed down so much that they have very little of the original film left, thy are only 480. (these numbers are lines of information) When they make a Blu-ray, they go back to the FILM, and make a new digital copy in HD. That is why some of them have grain and the like.

01-17-2008, 04:20 PM	#3
nhaase Special Member Member since:Mar 2007 Trading Score:2	Also, since film is a chemical process, it's not actually "pixels."

01-17-2008, 04:23 PM	#4
CptGreedle Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Sworn super-hero now services Atlanta (and suburbs). Blu-ray collection:128 Blu-ray reviews:5	Lets see if I can make this more clear... This is the resolution of a DVD in USA and UK (NTSC in USA, PAL in UK), and both standard HD formats. Blu-ray is the 1080 format. Film is much bigger than this. This shows SD, HD, and theater quality (film). 2K is close to 1080, but 4k is far more. Beyond this there is IMAX, which is about 10000 x 7000 pixels. A DVD is only using NTSC, or 480i. A Blu-ray uses 1080p, or Full HD. To get the quality, they have to go back to the original source and resample the entire film to extract the information that the DVD does not have. This not only adds to the video, but also the sound, allowing for more channels of sound (up to 7.1 on Blu-ray) and better quality sound too.

01-17-2008, 04:26 PM	#5
seto Senior Member Member since:Jul 2007 Blu-ray reviews:1	I am afraid your friend at work doesn't understand that the original film in which the movie was captured on has a much higher definition than DVD's. Of course, over time, higher quality film comes out and film degrades. Blu-ray ports go back to the original film and people commit a lot of time and attention to cleaning the picture and audio up before they encode the video and audio onto a master for replication. Think of it this way. You take a high quality video and compress it with real media high-compression-format versus Xvid low-compression-format. The RM format is going to be much poorer than the Xvid format because it is forced to carry much lower amount of data. Of course, both of these don't compare to the original high quality video.

01-17-2008, 04:28 PM	#7
davidPS3 Special Member Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Seattle	Very nice lesson. He should be able to use this as his back up. Either the guys are work are going to say WOW, or they will take the low road and act like a red team member...................

01-17-2008, 04:28 PM	#9
glenn22 Power Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Vancouver, Canada	To those type of people you can talk and talk and talk, but a picture is worth a thousand words. Show him the SD-DVD and the Blu-ray of the same movie... that will say it all.

01-17-2008, 04:33 PM	#10
CptGreedle Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Sworn super-hero now services Atlanta (and suburbs). Blu-ray collection:128 Blu-ray reviews:5	It is important to note that older films that were out before Blu-ray were in the 2k or 4k formats. What happens is they squeeze the image down to a much smaller size, and you loose a lot of information to do that. So DVDs only have 1/6th of the data a 2k has, or less. When a BD is released, they go back to the original film, scan it at a much higher resolution than before picked up all those details that you can not see n a DVD or a standard definition TV, as well as sound that a DVD system can not support, and re-encode it. The result is a much higher quality image with far more details, in fact 6 times the amount of information than a DVD has. It takes a long time to fix up the images and the sound of these older films, but they do it! And the result is something much better than you have ever seen before, even in a movie theater. Hope this all helps! Tell us what he says.

01-17-2008, 04:41 PM	#12
Weez_Dawg Active Member Member since:Apr 2007 Location:New Mexico	Sorry, but I am going to put myself on the firing line here, but I am going to raise the bs flag. If everything everyone says here is true than why do they advertise "Crank" and "Casino Royal" as well as "Planet Earth" and "Ice Road Truckers" as being the first movies/shows to be shot in Full HD??? I know I might be setting myself but answer me that.

01-17-2008, 04:42 PM	#13
dobyblue Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Jul 2006 Location:Ontario, Canada Home Theater Gallery:71 4K collection:55 Blu-ray collection:655 Blu-ray reviews: 15	Tell him to read this article about how Blade Runner from 1982 was scanned at 4,000 lines of resolution thanks to the analog nature of film. http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/fea...d-is-made.html

01-17-2008, 05:15 PM	#16
DisneyKrayzie Active Member Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Los Angeles, CA	I think a good example to use is photography. I have recently begun scanning old photographs to digital to store on my computer. The photographs as some said above are a chemical reaction like movie film. A few years ago I would scan them in using a cheap scanner with a resolution of about 200dpi (highest my scanner would go at the time) and the results were not too bad, it gave a descent digital image. Now I have a better scanner i scan the images at 600dpi, and wow what a difference. From what I understand that is similar to how they get video for DVD or Blu-Ray, for DVD they were just "scanning" at a lower resolution, and now Blu-Ray is capable of "scanning" a higher resolution much closer to the original film, but still not even as good.

01-19-2008, 05:23 PM	#20
mtl007 Active Member Member since:May 2007 Blu-ray collection:51 Trading Score:10	If you have used programs like photoshop, you understand there are similar programs out there for movies where you can do digital enhancements like lighting, constrast, color, de-noise, sharpen edges, etc. As long as you don't overdo it, a re-mastering process will enhance picture quality.

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