Which one: Sony, Panasonic, PS3... or wait?? - Blu-ray Forum

HDforever! · 11-18-2006, 11:33 PM

Guys,

I'm in a major quandry. I have a 61" Samsung 1080p DLP TV on its way that needs some decent HD content (over compressed, HD Lite satellite and cable HD SUCK!!).

The Sony's been delayed and there is no word if it will or will not be able to decode (out of the box or via firmware) the advanced audio codecs. It will output 1080p/24 via HDMI from the start, however (a big bonus). Seeing how it's a Pioneer Elite clone, the quality in and out probably will be great. It does not have 8 channel analog outputs (Fox already has a 6.1 lossless track in the field), so it will probably be hampered even with advanced audio support. $999 MSRP.

The Panasonic has reported CUE issues (for DVD only or does it apply to Blu-Ray too?--I already have an Oppo DVD player with no CUE issue), does not have advanced audio out of the box (but I've read it has a card in the box good for a future firmware update to turn it on), it does have 8 channel analog outputs so I'd assume it will be upgraded to 8 channel advanced audio support. No 1080p/24 output though it does have the same Sigma Designs chip as the Pioneer Elite and Sony that do (firmware update??). Has a fan in it for cooling. Supposedly, good internal audio DAC's, and good DVD-Audio music quality. A little sharper, more vibrant picture than the Samsung. $1,300 MSRP with 3 free discs (offer still stands?).

The PS3 has come out, but is ridiculously hard to get and may be for the next few months. No 5.1 or 8 channel analog outputs (so no advanced audio until I can get a new surround processor with HDMI 1.3). Dolby TrueHD 7.1 output via HDMI now, DTS-MA supposedly soon via firmware update. No 1080p/24, but perhaps later in an update. Runs warm to very hot depending on the reviews. Inconsistant reviews on picture quality compared to stand alone players. Could be buggy as it's a game console first and foremost. Does have built in SA-CD decoding, but again I need HDMI to get it. $500-$600.

Currently I have a pre-amp with one set of multi-channel analog inputs, but no HDMI so I can't use the converted advanced audio codecs as LPCM. I don't want to have to upgrade now to HDMI 1.2 equipment, and then yet again for HDMI 1.3 support. I need something that will work well now (bang vs. buck) until there are enough processors on the market to go HDMI 1.3 with advanced audio codecs built-in.

For right now 1080p/24 output may not be a big deal since I doubt the Samsung will accept it and convert it to 48 or 72 Hz to get rid of judder. If it accepted 1080p/24 and only converted to 30 fps (60 Hz), then there's no benefit. I would need it for a future 1080p front projector, though.

Advanced audio playback is of concern to me, as you might have guessed.

Then again there's always the worry in the back of just about everyone's mind with this war that we'll plunk down $1,000 for a player and wind up with HD-DVD the winner (or eeh-gads... neither format). I'm sure some HD-DVD consumers think the same way about their format of choice.

I could sure use some sage advice. Other people's opinions can have voices of reason come through, especially from those who have personal experience with these Blu-Ray players.

Thank you.

Deane Johnson · 11-19-2006, 12:58 AM

I have a front projection home theater which can benefit greatly from high def. Since I purchase everything I watch, I'm also concerned about acquiring SD DVDs at this point.

After following every forum I can on the subject on a daily basis, I've decided the thing to do is suck it in and wait.

As a result, not only will I wait until the player thing settles down a little, but I've stopped purchasing DVDs, which has usually been 6 to 10 per month.

My gut tells me Blu-Ray will be the winner, but I don't want to invest a bunch of money in things that don't work right yet. Two or three months could change the lay of the landscape, or at least clarify it a bit.

Some of the decision has to do with what your budget is. For some, buying a $1000 player and replacing it next year isn't a big deal. For me it is.

Just one persons approach to the situation.

Jim L · 11-19-2006, 01:49 AM

HDforever!

I currently have the Panny and I'm waiting for the Sony. I'll tell you what I know.

The Panasonic does NOT have the CUE error. I have tested it extensively on DVD playback at every output resolution and it is not there. I know what it looks like because I have had DVD players with it (Sony DVP-S9000ES) and without it (Denon DVD2200 and Panasonic RP-56).
The picture quality is a cut above the Samsung (which is not bad itself)
The sound quality on CD playback and movies is excellent.
Panasonic has already issued 1 firmware update that improved an issue which I couldn't even see.
3 free movies is nothing to sneeze at. And they are good Disney titles - 8 Below, Gone in 60 Seconds, and The Great Raid. The first comes in the box, the other 2 were shipped to me within 3 days.
The Panasonic has excellent build quality.
I think the remote is nice.
The player is attractive looking.
I imagine that its longevity and value will hold based on my experience with my previous Panasonic DVD player.
You can currently get the Panasonic at ~$1050 (Tweeter) and maybe less elsewhere.
They plan to upgrade to advanced audio codec support via a firmware update.

Overall I would say it is a very good 1st gen player. I originally ordered the Sony and will wait for it. If I hear it is better, then I'm taking back the Panasonic. If not, I keep it. Either way I will be very pleased. I can enjoy everything about Blu-ray in this player except for BD-Live, which isn't a big deal to me.

mickmmd · 11-19-2006, 02:28 AM

Hi HD Forever
Your choice of gear reflects how serious you are about your pursuit. As a videophile you should evaluate both formats on the pros and cons of each. I had initially spent time with HD DVD but got fed up of it as I found my self dreading loading a movie into the thing and discovering a new glitch. Virtually every movie except MI 3, RIDDICK and WAIST DEEP got stuck in the player. Even with the firmware upgrade it was futile.
Prior to the HD DVD dalliance I had gotten a Panasonic but returned it in favor of the attractively priced HD DVD player. I just had no patience to deal with this ultra screwed up player. I returned it and got a Panasonic again.
I am very very happy. I am trying to find a way to burn the upgrade to the Panasonic and upload it but even without the upgrade it is excellent. Please read my full review in one of the previous threads. I hope this helps a bit

HDforever! · 11-19-2006, 06:11 PM

Thanks for the replies so far guys! I'm perhaps leaning towards the Panny now because of the advanced audio forthcoming. The Pioneer (and Sony) will probably not have advanced audio since not even a top level Pioneer engineer on AVS Forum knows for sure and they start shipping soon.

Any idea when that promised Panny firmware will be coming? Could they also turn on 1080p/24 output via firmware? The Sigma Designs chip can do so.

Dan

ay221 · 11-19-2006, 09:28 PM

Getting the Panny with 7.1 would be cheaper than buying a player and a 1.3 receiver. Good build quality from what I hear. Would be a good way to go IMO.

DaveFi · 11-21-2006, 01:31 AM

From what I gathered on the Amps/Receivers forums on AVSForum, you don't really need anything more than HDMI 1.1 forum for proper sound support, as your BD player should be encoding them first.

The only reason why you'ld need 1.3 support would be for the 7.1 sound support as you said, but it seems like 1.1 receivers would do the job for me (I have a little livingroom and 5.1 is more than adequate). I admit it's all very confusing.

I plan on purchasing the Marantz SR4001 receiver even though it only supports HDMI 1.1. It should more than suit my needs.

KCWolfPck · 11-21-2006, 11:42 AM

Yeah Dave, I'm in the same quandry. I'm planning on upgrading my B&K Ref 50 to an Anthem AVM50. The Anthem has HDMI, but not 1.3. I am thinking of waiting until 1.3 because when I spend $5k for a pre/pro....I want it to last a while. You know?

DaveFi · 11-21-2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCWolfPck

Yeah Dave, I'm in the same quandry. I'm planning on upgrading my B&K Ref 50 to an Anthem AVM50. The Anthem has HDMI, but not 1.3. I am thinking of waiting until 1.3 because when I spend $5k for a pre/pro....I want it to last a while. You know?

Well, look at it this way. Make sure to buy a receiver with 7-channel discrete inputs, because within a few years BD players with built in discrete outputs will probably cost the same price as a standard DVD player.

The Marantz SR4001 suits my needs, and comes in <$400. Only wish it offered more HDMI inputs.

hank_marvin · 11-27-2006, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDforever!

The Panasonic has no 1080p/24 output

PLEASE TELL ME IT ISN'T TRUE!!!!!!

JTK · 11-27-2006, 02:06 PM

^^ Not sure about that one way or the other.

Does anyone have any proof, links, documentation either way on that?

Dave · 11-27-2006, 02:22 PM

Whatever you choose, waiting for SONY is the best. At least you will see if its better than the Panny.
If you need to rush get the Panasonic and rest

JTK · 11-27-2006, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave

Whatever you choose, waiting for SONY is the best. At least you will see if its better than the Panny.
If you need to rush get the Panasonic and rest

Yes, if you've waited this long, you may as well wait until all the players are out there in December and then start workin' it.

KCWolfPck · 11-27-2006, 04:44 PM

I'd just like to know the specs of the upcoming Sony and Pioneer. You'd think that if they were releasing them in a few weeks, they might have them finalized by now. It's rediculous how little info we have on them. I'd like to know more so I know if it's even worth it to wait anymore.

shamus · 11-27-2006, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveFi

From what I gathered on the Amps/Receivers forums on AVSForum, you don't really need anything more than HDMI 1.1 forum for proper sound support, as your BD player should be encoding them first.

The only reason why you'ld need 1.3 support would be for the 7.1 sound support as you said, but it seems like 1.1 receivers would do the job for me (I have a little livingroom and 5.1 is more than adequate). I admit it's all very confusing.

I plan on purchasing the Marantz SR4001 receiver even though it only supports HDMI 1.1. It should more than suit my needs.

Remember... The Panny is the only announced player that has commited to decoding the new audio codecs.
And.... If you choose the Panny route, before you buy a new receiver, make sure the receiver can pass 8 channel LPCM via its HDMI. Some wont do that regardless of which version HDMI it has!!!!

hank_marvin · 11-27-2006, 08:10 PM

Blu-rays that won't output 1080p and 8 channel LPCM via the HDMI's, it's like a Ferrari that runs on Diesel!

Konrad · 11-27-2006, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hank_marvin

PLEASE TELL ME IT ISN'T TRUE!!!!!!

Anybody know for sure which players have 1080p/24 output?
Are all BDs in 1080p/24?

marine92104 · 11-28-2006, 01:24 AM

Does anyone know if the Panasonic will output Dolby True HD & DTS-MA over the analog 7.1 outputs when they have the upgrade or will it only be output over the HDMI out?

I called Panasonic & they didn't even know. They didn't have a timeframe listed in the computer for the upgrade for the advanced audio codecs yet either.

Also does it have Dolby True HD & DTS-MA decoders in the DVD player or would I have to purchase a new receiver with the decoders in the receiver to get the full bitrate sound of the new codecs.

Rob Tomlin · 11-28-2006, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCWolfPck

Yeah Dave, I'm in the same quandry. I'm planning on upgrading my B&K Ref 50 to an Anthem AVM50. The Anthem has HDMI, but not 1.3. I am thinking of waiting until 1.3 because when I spend $5k for a pre/pro....I want it to last a while. You know?

I'm looking at the Anthem AVM50 too. I'm not too concerned about it not having hdmi 1.3.

Read the link in JTK's sig line for the reasons this isn't a big deal.

11-18-2006, 11:33 PM	#1
HDforever! Member Member since:Nov 2006	Which one: Sony, Panasonic, PS3... or wait?? Guys, I'm in a major quandry. I have a 61" Samsung 1080p DLP TV on its way that needs some decent HD content (over compressed, HD Lite satellite and cable HD SUCK!!). The Sony's been delayed and there is no word if it will or will not be able to decode (out of the box or via firmware) the advanced audio codecs. It will output 1080p/24 via HDMI from the start, however (a big bonus). Seeing how it's a Pioneer Elite clone, the quality in and out probably will be great. It does not have 8 channel analog outputs (Fox already has a 6.1 lossless track in the field), so it will probably be hampered even with advanced audio support. $999 MSRP. The Panasonic has reported CUE issues (for DVD only or does it apply to Blu-Ray too?--I already have an Oppo DVD player with no CUE issue), does not have advanced audio out of the box (but I've read it has a card in the box good for a future firmware update to turn it on), it does have 8 channel analog outputs so I'd assume it will be upgraded to 8 channel advanced audio support. No 1080p/24 output though it does have the same Sigma Designs chip as the Pioneer Elite and Sony that do (firmware update??). Has a fan in it for cooling. Supposedly, good internal audio DAC's, and good DVD-Audio music quality. A little sharper, more vibrant picture than the Samsung. $1,300 MSRP with 3 free discs (offer still stands?). The PS3 has come out, but is ridiculously hard to get and may be for the next few months. No 5.1 or 8 channel analog outputs (so no advanced audio until I can get a new surround processor with HDMI 1.3). Dolby TrueHD 7.1 output via HDMI now, DTS-MA supposedly soon via firmware update. No 1080p/24, but perhaps later in an update. Runs warm to very hot depending on the reviews. Inconsistant reviews on picture quality compared to stand alone players. Could be buggy as it's a game console first and foremost. Does have built in SA-CD decoding, but again I need HDMI to get it. $500-$600. Currently I have a pre-amp with one set of multi-channel analog inputs, but no HDMI so I can't use the converted advanced audio codecs as LPCM. I don't want to have to upgrade now to HDMI 1.2 equipment, and then yet again for HDMI 1.3 support. I need something that will work well now (bang vs. buck) until there are enough processors on the market to go HDMI 1.3 with advanced audio codecs built-in. For right now 1080p/24 output may not be a big deal since I doubt the Samsung will accept it and convert it to 48 or 72 Hz to get rid of judder. If it accepted 1080p/24 and only converted to 30 fps (60 Hz), then there's no benefit. I would need it for a future 1080p front projector, though. Advanced audio playback is of concern to me, as you might have guessed. Then again there's always the worry in the back of just about everyone's mind with this war that we'll plunk down $1,000 for a player and wind up with HD-DVD the winner (or eeh-gads... neither format). I'm sure some HD-DVD consumers think the same way about their format of choice. I could sure use some sage advice. Other people's opinions can have voices of reason come through, especially from those who have personal experience with these Blu-Ray players. Thank you. Last edited by HDforever!; 11-18-2006 at 11:39 PM.

11-19-2006, 01:49 AM	#3
Jim L Special Member Top contributor Member since:Apr 2006 Location:Myrtle Beach, SC Blu-ray reviews: 12 Trading Score:20	My experience with the Panasonic BD Player . . . HDforever! I currently have the Panny and I'm waiting for the Sony. I'll tell you what I know. The Panasonic does NOT have the CUE error. I have tested it extensively on DVD playback at every output resolution and it is not there. I know what it looks like because I have had DVD players with it (Sony DVP-S9000ES) and without it (Denon DVD2200 and Panasonic RP-56). The picture quality is a cut above the Samsung (which is not bad itself) The sound quality on CD playback and movies is excellent. Panasonic has already issued 1 firmware update that improved an issue which I couldn't even see. 3 free movies is nothing to sneeze at. And they are good Disney titles - 8 Below, Gone in 60 Seconds, and The Great Raid. The first comes in the box, the other 2 were shipped to me within 3 days. The Panasonic has excellent build quality. I think the remote is nice. The player is attractive looking. I imagine that its longevity and value will hold based on my experience with my previous Panasonic DVD player. You can currently get the Panasonic at ~$1050 (Tweeter) and maybe less elsewhere. They plan to upgrade to advanced audio codec support via a firmware update. Overall I would say it is a very good 1st gen player. I originally ordered the Sony and will wait for it. If I hear it is better, then I'm taking back the Panasonic. If not, I keep it. Either way I will be very pleased. I can enjoy everything about Blu-ray in this player except for BD-Live, which isn't a big deal to me. Last edited by Jim L; 11-19-2006 at 03:46 AM.

11-19-2006, 02:28 AM	#4
mickmmd Junior Member Member since:Nov 2006 Location:St Louis	Which System Hi HD Forever Your choice of gear reflects how serious you are about your pursuit. As a videophile you should evaluate both formats on the pros and cons of each. I had initially spent time with HD DVD but got fed up of it as I found my self dreading loading a movie into the thing and discovering a new glitch. Virtually every movie except MI 3, RIDDICK and WAIST DEEP got stuck in the player. Even with the firmware upgrade it was futile. Prior to the HD DVD dalliance I had gotten a Panasonic but returned it in favor of the attractively priced HD DVD player. I just had no patience to deal with this ultra screwed up player. I returned it and got a Panasonic again. I am very very happy. I am trying to find a way to burn the upgrade to the Panasonic and upload it but even without the upgrade it is excellent. Please read my full review in one of the previous threads. I hope this helps a bit

11-21-2006, 01:31 AM	#7
DaveFi Special Member Member since:Nov 2006 Blu-ray collection:362 Trading Score:4	From what I gathered on the Amps/Receivers forums on AVSForum, you don't really need anything more than HDMI 1.1 forum for proper sound support, as your BD player should be encoding them first. The only reason why you'ld need 1.3 support would be for the 7.1 sound support as you said, but it seems like 1.1 receivers would do the job for me (I have a little livingroom and 5.1 is more than adequate). I admit it's all very confusing. I plan on purchasing the Marantz SR4001 receiver even though it only supports HDMI 1.1. It should more than suit my needs. Last edited by DaveFi; 11-21-2006 at 02:04 AM.

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11-19-2006, 12:58 AM	#2
Deane Johnson Active Member Member since:Nov 2006 Location:Omaha, NE	I have a front projection home theater which can benefit greatly from high def. Since I purchase everything I watch, I'm also concerned about acquiring SD DVDs at this point. After following every forum I can on the subject on a daily basis, I've decided the thing to do is suck it in and wait. As a result, not only will I wait until the player thing settles down a little, but I've stopped purchasing DVDs, which has usually been 6 to 10 per month. My gut tells me Blu-Ray will be the winner, but I don't want to invest a bunch of money in things that don't work right yet. Two or three months could change the lay of the landscape, or at least clarify it a bit. Some of the decision has to do with what your budget is. For some, buying a $1000 player and replacing it next year isn't a big deal. For me it is. Just one persons approach to the situation.

11-19-2006, 06:11 PM	#5
HDforever! Member Member since:Nov 2006	Thanks for the replies so far guys! I'm perhaps leaning towards the Panny now because of the advanced audio forthcoming. The Pioneer (and Sony) will probably not have advanced audio since not even a top level Pioneer engineer on AVS Forum knows for sure and they start shipping soon. Any idea when that promised Panny firmware will be coming? Could they also turn on 1080p/24 output via firmware? The Sigma Designs chip can do so. Dan

11-19-2006, 09:28 PM	#6
ay221 Special Member Member since:Oct 2006	Getting the Panny with 7.1 would be cheaper than buying a player and a 1.3 receiver. Good build quality from what I hear. Would be a good way to go IMO.

11-21-2006, 11:42 AM	#8
KCWolfPck Member Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Nov 2006 Home Theater Gallery:45 4K collection:2 Blu-ray collection:2	Yeah Dave, I'm in the same quandry. I'm planning on upgrading my B&K Ref 50 to an Anthem AVM50. The Anthem has HDMI, but not 1.3. I am thinking of waiting until 1.3 because when I spend $5k for a pre/pro....I want it to last a while. You know?

11-27-2006, 02:06 PM	#11
JTK Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jan 2006 Location:www.blurayoasis.com	^^ Not sure about that one way or the other. Does anyone have any proof, links, documentation either way on that?

11-27-2006, 02:22 PM	#12
Dave Expert Member Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Somewhere	Whatever you choose, waiting for SONY is the best. At least you will see if its better than the Panny. If you need to rush get the Panasonic and rest

11-27-2006, 04:44 PM	#14
KCWolfPck Member Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Nov 2006 Home Theater Gallery:45 4K collection:2 Blu-ray collection:2	I'd just like to know the specs of the upcoming Sony and Pioneer. You'd think that if they were releasing them in a few weeks, they might have them finalized by now. It's rediculous how little info we have on them. I'd like to know more so I know if it's even worth it to wait anymore.

11-27-2006, 08:10 PM	#16
hank_marvin Active Member Member since:Jul 2006 Blu-ray reviews: 3	Blu-rays that won't output 1080p and 8 channel LPCM via the HDMI's, it's like a Ferrari that runs on Diesel!

11-28-2006, 01:24 AM	#18
marine92104 Expert Member Member since:Oct 2006 4K collection:1 Blu-ray collection:1 iTunes collection:9 Trading Score:43	Does anyone know if the Panasonic will output Dolby True HD & DTS-MA over the analog 7.1 outputs when they have the upgrade or will it only be output over the HDMI out? I called Panasonic & they didn't even know. They didn't have a timeframe listed in the computer for the upgrade for the advanced audio codecs yet either. Also does it have Dolby True HD & DTS-MA decoders in the DVD player or would I have to purchase a new receiver with the decoders in the receiver to get the full bitrate sound of the new codecs.

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