Sub-Woofer on Side?

[cnowels]

I have an older-model Yamaha sub-woofer that still works fantastic. It's rectangular and about 2 1/2 feet tall. I also fairly recently got a new AV rack and just noticed that the bottom slot looks like it would hold my sub just perfectly IF I were to turn it on its side. This would also free up some floor space.

Does anyone know if orientation affects the LFE generation?

I know I could just try it, but before I move a bunch of cables around, I thought I'd ask the experts.

[Woody]

Originally Posted by cnowels

I have an older-model Yamaha sub-woofer that still works fantastic. It's rectangular and about 2 1/2 feet tall. I also fairly recently got a new AV rack and just noticed that the bottom slot looks like it would hold my sub just perfectly IF I were to turn it on its side. This would also free up some floor space.

Does anyone know if orientation affects the LFE generation?

I know I could just try it, but before movie a bunch of cables around, I thought I'd ask the experts.

In short, a sub like yours will theoretically perform the same if it is on its side.

You may experience rattling though if the sub is placed in a rack depending on glass shelving, etc. Also I would periodically tighten any screws/bolts on the stand because they are sure to vibrate loose.

[Brian Cash]

I dont know if i would put it there you probably would hear some ratteling noise and you would not really get the same sound and feel as if it was on the floor

[cnowels]

Duh! Of course it would rattle. Don't know if the vibrations would be so good going up through my receiver and BD player either. I should have thought of that. Thanks guys.

[gearyt]

It needs a SOLID floor to work it's magic

[MacDaddyOJack]

Bass waves are omni-directional so you could turn it upside-down and get very nearly the same output. I would put it where you like it visually or where you get the best in-room response out of it. I would put it anywhere but under your AV rack. That is the last place you want vibrations for many reasons.

[Beta Man]

One thing to consider (as I'm not aware of this model of sub) but looking at Martin Logan Subs, they are made to be used as front, or downward firing..... other subs though, (my Old pre-historic dorm-room shaker that's in my basement for instance) is a big hulking beast, and it's a 15" downward firing sub. I would assume I can adhere foot-pegs to the top, flip it upside down, and have it firing UPWARD..... but considering the size of the magnet etc. in it, and the weight, although I would hope when it was constructed that the speaker inside the cabinet is secured well enough that it wouldn't matter, but I can imagine the vibrations combined with the weight, may cause the speaker to rattle, and work it's way loose from the enclosure. I may not be explaining this sufficiently, but picture this scenario....


speaker facing downward, with four screws holding it in place, screwed in from the top.....

now flip it upside down, and those same four screws are holding the entire weight, and every time the bass "hits" it's like a hit from a hammer in the opposite direction the box was designed for.



Maybe I thought too much on this!!!! I'm sure it's o.k!!!

[kingofgrills]

Which model Yamaha do you have? I have one, the YST-SW90, which is a fairly musical sub, but lacks that true bottom end. It can be a little boomy if it's not configured properly in your system. Yamaha subs really need a good solid surface to sit on, and they also benefit from being positioned properly in a room. That position will ultimately depend on your room geometry, so play around with its position a bit.

I would really recommend keeping the sub off your rack, because the vibrations long term could be harmful to your system. The rattles it creates will also be really distracting to your enjoyment of the system.

[adrianoupike]

king of grills

whats the Harmony 880 Universal Remote with PS3 support ?

I just bought the 880 remote as well, so i am curious about that..Pm me if you dont mind

[the Bass Mechanic]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

One thing to consider (as I'm not aware of this model of sub) but looking at Martin Logan Subs, they are made to be used as front, or downward firing..... other subs though, (my Old pre-historic dorm-room shaker that's in my basement for instance) is a big hulking beast, and it's a 15" downward firing sub. I would assume I can adhere foot-pegs to the top, flip it upside down, and have it firing UPWARD..... but considering the size of the magnet etc. in it, and the weight, although I would hope when it was constructed that the speaker inside the cabinet is secured well enough that it wouldn't matter, but I can imagine the vibrations combined with the weight, may cause the speaker to rattle, and work it's way loose from the enclosure. I may not be explaining this sufficiently, but picture this scenario....

speaker facing downward, with four screws holding it in place, screwed in from the top.....

now flip it upside down, and those same four screws are holding the entire weight, and every time the bass "hits" it's like a hit from a hammer in the opposite direction the box was designed for.

Maybe I thought too much on this!!!! I'm sure it's o.k!!!

I'm not sure about that particular model, but all modern subs I know of have the drivers mounted from the outside of the cabinet, thus turning it upside down will not be a problem. the only speakers I've ever seen with the driver rear-mounted (from the inside of the baffle) were some old (early 1970's or older) fullrange cabinets that had a removable rear panel for servicing (the grille cloth was part of the front baffle and un-removable). A look at the subwoofer driver with any grilles removed should verify that it is front-mounted (you should be able to see the heads of the mounting screws).
Hope that helps.

BTW, you may have to turn the sub upside-down periodicaly, I used to have down-firing subs of my own and the cones would start to sag over time. I found I had to invert the sub cabinets (between down-firing, and up-firing) every 3 months or 3000 cannon shots, whichever came first.

[mdabb]

The only way your sub will sag is if your voice coil is worn out.

[the Bass Mechanic]

Originally Posted by mdabb

The only way your sub will sag is if your voice coil is worn out.

Sorry, but it has nothing to do with the voice coil, it has everyting to do with the spider and surround becoming stressed/stretched out durring use (especially durring large excursions) and the moving assembly settling a different rest position when the driver is up or down firing. This is not an opinion! In my job prior to my being disabled I measured thousands of different drivers and speaker systems, and this phenomenon has been noticed by many others who have made and/or had down firing subwwofers over the years.

[mdabb]

I spoke to soon and yes I stand corrected. I mispoke and actually meant the spider. But you would have to agree the spider is more of the reason than the surround. I use to work for a car audio subwoofer manufacturer "PROTECH" based out of Erie, PA. Sometimes I get too excited and my brain doesn't do what it is suposed to.

If your sub is stuck then the voice coil is toast.

[mdabb]

Also if the spider is worn then there is little you can do about it anyways.

[the Bass Mechanic]

Originally Posted by mdabb

I spoke to soon and yes I stand corrected. I mispoke and actually meant the spider. But you would have to agree the spider is more of the reason than the surround. I use to work for a car audio subwoofer manufacturer "PROTECH" based out of Erie, PA. Before they went up. Sometimes I get too excited and my brain doesn't do what it is suposed to.

If your sub is stuck then the voice coil is toast.

No, I understand, I am on massive amounts of pain medication due to my back problems and often brain-fart myself. I also seem to suffer from keyboard dyslexia these days and often have to retype things several times to get them right.

My original point was that down-firing subwoofers CAN suffer from suspension creep, especially if they have a high compliance and or low resonance frequency, as my old subs did. That is why I would invert them periodicaly to keep the sag from going to far off center and dishing (a.k.a. oil-canning) the spider. I have seen the fibers in some spiders flake off like dandriff during high power excursion limit testing. To the point where the T/S parameters and even the suspension compliance (Vs. displacement) curve was very different durring DUMAX testing before and after said high power testing/break in!!!

The reference to 3000 cannon shoots, was due to the fact that I often liked to listen to the 1812 Overture, and Welllington's Victory (both on Telarc) that contain recordings of real cannon shots (that I analysed as having content down to 5Hz!!!) and the subs were designed to be flat to below 16Hz at the main listening area (hence the low Fs and tendency to sag when down or up-fiiring). Thankfully, the drivers were surround limited (and had a rubber surround) and the spider's did lossen up a bit but never did Oil-can on me.

[the Bass Mechanic]

Originally Posted by mdabb

Also if the spider is worn then there is little you can do about it anyways.

True that!

[DIY_HD]

I have an old JBL sub that I am repositioning to the rear corner of my living room. I am considering the addition of three large nails in the bottom so that it penetrates the carpeting and rests firmly on the subfloor, like my Mirage speakers do. Is this something that would benefit a sub's performance, or would it be a waste of effort?

[Beta Man]

I rectified the problems by buying a new sub

[mdabb]

Originally Posted by DIY_HD

I have an old JBL sub that I am repositioning to the rear corner of my living room. I am considering the addition of three large nails in the bottom so that it penetrates the carpeting and rests firmly on the subfloor, like my Mirage speakers do. Is this something that would benefit a sub's performance, or would it be a waste of effort?

I am not sure of what you mean? Are you talking about nailing down the sub to the floor or trying to isolate the sub in an attempt to mimic " speaker spikes "?

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by mdabb

I am not sure of what you mean? Are you talking about nailining down the sub to the floor or trying to isolate the sub in an attempt to mimic " speaker spikes "?

I agree.... I think you can buy speaker-spikes.... I wouldn't use nails..... especially if you care about your floor.... if you DO decide to use nails.... get stainless ones (square driven screws probably) so at least when someone spills water that you're not aware of, you don't fine a big rust-spot a year later when you move the sub!