low resolution flag for component video - Blu-ray Forum

jerrydf · 03-19-2008, 05:32 PM

I just faxed this letter to the Blu-Ray Disk Association:

"I would like to be a Blu-Ray consumer customer but first I need two questions answered.

I have a six year old high definition TV set that has component video inputs but no DVI or HDMI.

I read that the BD specifications provide for a low resolution flag that can optionally be turned on in the manufacturing software so the (analog) component video outputs get no better than a 480p output. Also, I read, that if that restriction is used, the packaging for that disk should indicate this limitation. I have examined several dozen BD packages and cannot recognize any mention of this restriction. I also read that Sony, so far, has elected to not use this restriction.

Since, if I purchase a Blu-Ray player, I would have to connect it to my TV using component video, I would not be pleased to find I am only able to watch 480p. So my questions are:

1. What should I look for on the BD packaging to tell me if that disk has resolution output restriction?

2. Currently, what studios are (or are not) using that restriction? I realize this is always subject to change."

Do any of you have any CERTAIN answers to my queries? Thanks.

Zipzap713 · 03-19-2008, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerrydf

1. What should I look for on the BD packaging to tell me if that disk has resolution output restriction?

2. Currently, what studios are (or are not) using that restriction? I realize this is always subject to change."

Do any of you have any CERTAIN answers to my queries? Thanks.

1. Dunno. None of my BDs are restricted by component output.

2. Dunno.

I think it all depends on your BD Player. I use a PS3 for Blu-Ray movies and they provide excellent picture through component cables. Its not as high of quality as HDMI/DVI, but its pretty close. So I recommend getting PS3 if you can't find good answers to your questions.

jerrydf · 03-19-2008, 05:43 PM

I know all the BD players will pass a 1080i signal to component video. It's the studio's disc engineering that CAN turn on this restriction in the software.

Zipzap713 · 03-19-2008, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerrydf

I know all the BD players will pass a 1080i signal to component video. It's the studio's disc engineering that CAN turn on this restriction in the software.

I know that all of my Disney, Fox, Warner Bros titles come in a prestine 1080i picture to my 1080i set. I think the security is just there to be there. To my knowledge, none of the discs actually restrict the signal that goes through the Component Cables.

David Craig · 03-19-2008, 05:49 PM

I had a PS/3 hooked up to a 1080i Tube TV. It was hooked up via component cables.

I think all major studios output to 1080i via component, that is, then don't downgrade to 480p.

However on the PS/3 the upscaling of DVD's to 1080 is not supported. However even that is no big deal. If you have a Tube TV it is likely no bigger that 36 inches. The TV will show a 480p image that is still fantastic.

I had a Panasonic Tau 36 inch, vintage 2001.

cembros · 03-19-2008, 05:56 PM

component cables can uotput 1080p from a blu ray player as far as i know, but it cannot handle 1080/24p, correct me if im wrong. I cant imagin why disc would be enginered to output differently for component cables than hdmi

jerrydf · 03-19-2008, 06:00 PM

Because the studios feel it is much easier to pirate copy from an analog (component video) output than a "protected" digital output (HDMI).

LynxFX · 03-19-2008, 06:11 PM

It is called ICT, or the Image Constraint Token and should be identified as such on the packaging. Currently no Blu-ray release has it enabled and most won't at least for another couple years. It has shown up on a few HD DVD titles over seas, and maybe a Blu-ray title as well but I can't remember.

Personally I think it is a completely anticonsumer device that does nothing to prevent piracy and only hurts the honest consumers. When was the last time any pirate organization used analog connections to copy a movie? Pretty much never. It has always been digital copies with antipiracy components stripped, or by an insider actually stealing a master.

I wouldn't worry about it being used on Blu-ray, but I would probably keep an eye out for a new tv. I went through the same thing last year, upgraded 2 HDTV's that didn't have HDMI, or DVI.

milou6 · 03-19-2008, 07:08 PM

LynxFX is right, it's called "ICT" (Image Constraint Token) and it's an optional setting studios can put on the disc itself, called a flag. If a player sees the ICT flag then it will resample the analog video to 480p (all BD players do this if they see the flag, it's required by the BDA and short of a hacked machine there's no way around it). Studios are aware that many people are hooked up via component now and don't plan on using it for a few years. By then you may be upgrading your set anyway...

jerrydf · 03-19-2008, 07:12 PM

Thanks to all who replied. You have been very helpful.

skrill · 03-19-2008, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LynxFX

It is called ICT, or the Image Constraint Token and should be identified as such on the packaging. Currently no Blu-ray release has it enabled and most won't at least for another couple years. It has shown up on a few HD DVD titles over seas, and maybe a Blu-ray title as well but I can't remember.

Personally I think it is a completely anticonsumer device that does nothing to prevent piracy and only hurts the honest consumers. When was the last time any pirate organization used analog connections to copy a movie? Pretty much never. It has always been digital copies with antipiracy components stripped, or by an insider actually stealing a master.

I wouldn't worry about it being used on Blu-ray, but I would probably keep an eye out for a new tv. I went through the same thing last year, upgraded 2 HDTV's that didn't have HDMI, or DVI.

Yep -- I think the German HD DVD version of Resident Evil has the ICT enable. Only release that I know that has it.

ICT is an option for the studios and required in all Blu Ray and HD DVD players. Can't really avoid it. If they start enabling it -- it will suck for those that use component.

Blubaru · 12-28-2008, 02:39 PM

I think all of the newer fox movies have this restriction.

GodofBlu · 12-28-2008, 03:25 PM

I run 1080i component to my projector and have yet to encounter this problem. Every BD disc I've played has output 1080i. I was under the impression they weren't going to turn this flag on until hdmi had much greater market penetration.

If this is true of Fox titles, those of us with component inputs would be better off renting the DVD version and playing back with a upconverting DVD player. Because as we all know BD players have a flag set so you cannot upconvert DVD's. Sounds like a big step backwards...

WriteSimply · 12-28-2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blubaru

I think all of the newer fox movies have this restriction.

Please confirm your speculation with a list of these movies.

fuad

Blubaru · 12-28-2008, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WriteSimply

Please confirm your speculation with a list of these movies.

fuad

I've had it personally happen with "X Files 2" and "The Happening".

If you search on other forums, you'll see people having similar problems with other fox movies.

I know Jumper worked fine but that was released before The Happening.

I don't know if the Happening was the first to have the analog restriction but it seems that all films after that release have it.

GodofBlu · 12-28-2008, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blubaru

I've had it personally happen with "X Files 2" and "The Happening".

If you search on other forums, you'll see people having similar problems with other fox movies.

I know Jumper worked fine but that was released before The Happening.

I don't know if the Happening was the first to have the analog restriction but it seems that all films after that release have it.

What BD player are you using. After doing some searching, I only see complaints for one particular BD player. The BD-1000

Blubaru · 12-28-2008, 05:18 PM

BDP-1000. From what i've read the problem isn't limited to that player though.
Movies will play fine over hdmi on ps3.

GodofBlu · 12-28-2008, 07:00 PM

Well I played the Happening a few weeks ago and I didn't get any messages. And I usually always confirm my video format during disc play since others in the family sometimes screw things up.

kjack · 12-30-2008, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milou6

If a player sees the ICT flag then it will resample the analog video to 480p...

Players with newer decoding chips are capable of 960x540 (max. resolution allowed) instead of 480p.

ICT also applies to other HD boxes that have an HDMI output, so it's not a BD-specific thing.

lobosrul · 12-30-2008, 07:14 PM

It would be pretty ridiculous if ICT is ever really enforced. I'd bet the majority of viewers using component input wouldn't even notice a downgrade to 960x540. How exactly would this prevent piracy anyways? BD+ has been cracked yet again (yes in the last day or two) anyways. It would result in punishing no one but the people who actually bought the disc.

03-19-2008, 05:32 PM	#1
jerrydf Junior Member Member since:Mar 2008	low resolution flag for component video I just faxed this letter to the Blu-Ray Disk Association: "I would like to be a Blu-Ray consumer customer but first I need two questions answered. I have a six year old high definition TV set that has component video inputs but no DVI or HDMI. I read that the BD specifications provide for a low resolution flag that can optionally be turned on in the manufacturing software so the (analog) component video outputs get no better than a 480p output. Also, I read, that if that restriction is used, the packaging for that disk should indicate this limitation. I have examined several dozen BD packages and cannot recognize any mention of this restriction. I also read that Sony, so far, has elected to not use this restriction. Since, if I purchase a Blu-Ray player, I would have to connect it to my TV using component video, I would not be pleased to find I am only able to watch 480p. So my questions are: 1. What should I look for on the BD packaging to tell me if that disk has resolution output restriction? 2. Currently, what studios are (or are not) using that restriction? I realize this is always subject to change." Do any of you have any CERTAIN answers to my queries? Thanks.

03-19-2008, 05:43 PM	#3
jerrydf Junior Member Member since:Mar 2008	not hardware problem I know all the BD players will pass a 1080i signal to component video. It's the studio's disc engineering that CAN turn on this restriction in the software.

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03-19-2008, 05:49 PM	#5
David Craig Active Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Canada Blu-ray reviews: 5	I had a PS/3 hooked up to a 1080i Tube TV. It was hooked up via component cables. I think all major studios output to 1080i via component, that is, then don't downgrade to 480p. However on the PS/3 the upscaling of DVD's to 1080 is not supported. However even that is no big deal. If you have a Tube TV it is likely no bigger that 36 inches. The TV will show a 480p image that is still fantastic. I had a Panasonic Tau 36 inch, vintage 2001.

03-19-2008, 05:56 PM	#6
cembros Power Member Member since:Jan 2008 Blu-ray collection:456 Trading Score:4	component cables can uotput 1080p from a blu ray player as far as i know, but it cannot handle 1080/24p, correct me if im wrong. I cant imagin why disc would be enginered to output differently for component cables than hdmi

03-19-2008, 06:00 PM	#7
jerrydf Junior Member Member since:Mar 2008	Because the studios feel it is much easier to pirate copy from an analog (component video) output than a "protected" digital output (HDMI).

03-19-2008, 06:11 PM	#8
LynxFX Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jul 2007	It is called ICT, or the Image Constraint Token and should be identified as such on the packaging. Currently no Blu-ray release has it enabled and most won't at least for another couple years. It has shown up on a few HD DVD titles over seas, and maybe a Blu-ray title as well but I can't remember. Personally I think it is a completely anticonsumer device that does nothing to prevent piracy and only hurts the honest consumers. When was the last time any pirate organization used analog connections to copy a movie? Pretty much never. It has always been digital copies with antipiracy components stripped, or by an insider actually stealing a master. I wouldn't worry about it being used on Blu-ray, but I would probably keep an eye out for a new tv. I went through the same thing last year, upgraded 2 HDTV's that didn't have HDMI, or DVI.

03-19-2008, 07:08 PM	#9
milou6 Active Member Member since:Mar 2007 Location:Ohio	LynxFX is right, it's called "ICT" (Image Constraint Token) and it's an optional setting studios can put on the disc itself, called a flag. If a player sees the ICT flag then it will resample the analog video to 480p (all BD players do this if they see the flag, it's required by the BDA and short of a hacked machine there's no way around it). Studios are aware that many people are hooked up via component now and don't plan on using it for a few years. By then you may be upgrading your set anyway...

03-19-2008, 07:12 PM	#10
jerrydf Junior Member Member since:Mar 2008	Thanks to all who replied. You have been very helpful.

12-28-2008, 02:39 PM	#12
Blubaru Expert Member Member since:Oct 2006 Location:Tonight! you!	I think all of the newer fox movies have this restriction.

12-28-2008, 03:25 PM	#13
GodofBlu Banned Member since:Dec 2008	I run 1080i component to my projector and have yet to encounter this problem. Every BD disc I've played has output 1080i. I was under the impression they weren't going to turn this flag on until hdmi had much greater market penetration. If this is true of Fox titles, those of us with component inputs would be better off renting the DVD version and playing back with a upconverting DVD player. Because as we all know BD players have a flag set so you cannot upconvert DVD's. Sounds like a big step backwards...

12-28-2008, 05:18 PM	#17
Blubaru Expert Member Member since:Oct 2006 Location:Tonight! you!	BDP-1000. From what i've read the problem isn't limited to that player though. Movies will play fine over hdmi on ps3.

12-28-2008, 07:00 PM	#18
GodofBlu Banned Member since:Dec 2008	Well I played the Happening a few weeks ago and I didn't get any messages. And I usually always confirm my video format during disc play since others in the family sometimes screw things up.

12-30-2008, 07:14 PM	#20
lobosrul Active Member Member since:Aug 2008	It would be pretty ridiculous if ICT is ever really enforced. I'd bet the majority of viewers using component input wouldn't even notice a downgrade to 960x540. How exactly would this prevent piracy anyways? BD+ has been cracked yet again (yes in the last day or two) anyways. It would result in punishing no one but the people who actually bought the disc.

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