120 Hz LCD and Blu-ray

[Cortiz]

I just bought a new 120hz Sony LCD and the 1st Blu Ray movie I watched was Pirates of The Caribbean: At World's End and was very surprised at how fake the picture looked! The picture looked so fake that I thought I was watching a cartoon version of Pirates of The Caribbean.

I would like to get the impression from anyone on this forum that also owns a 120hz LCD.

[turboLAZER]

Originally Posted by Cortiz

I just bought a new 120 mhz Sony LCD and the 1st Blu Ray movie I watched was Pirates of The Caribbean: At World's End and was very surprised at how fake the picture looked! The picture looked so fake that I thought I was watching a cartoon version of Pirates of The Caribbean.

I would like to get the impression from anyone on this forum that also owns a 120 mhz LCD.

It's 120hz(not mhz), and that fake look is what you should expect with 120hz

[blu-backer]

Some people like the picture created by the screens with 120Hz capabilites. Others don't. I first saw it at Fry's last year where they were showing Transformers on HD-DVD on a 120Hz screen. I had to stop and look and try to place my finger on why the screen looked so "different".

I didn't really care for a movie looking like a 3D soap opera, but others seem to like the effect.

[frank_t]

Originally Posted by blu-backer

Some people like the picture created by the screens with 120Hz capabilites. Others don't. I first saw it at Fry's last year where they were showing Transformers on HD-DVD on a 120Hz screen. I had to stop and look and try to place my finger on why the screen looked so "different".

I didn't really care for a movie looking like a 3D soap opera, but others seem to like the effect.

some movies, looks good; others, not so much.

but i love the option to dial it down or turn it off on my xbr4

[MrRoy]

I saw a demo at BB and there was a ton of judder on a Sony 120hz XBR4. When I saw the 120hz on a Sammy, there was no judder. I don't know what to make of 120hz.

1080/24p also has judder so I am still trying to figure out how this is an advantage.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by MrRoy

1080/24p also has judder so I am still trying to figure out how this is an advantage.

I think you have a different idea of what judder is.
Judder refers to what 3:2 telecine creates.
Because most sets are 60Hz, a 24Hz source is converted by showing the first frame twice and the second one three times.
So the first 6 frames of a 24p source are shown like this:

1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6

The "judder" is caused because the time-axis is off. If you shoot something at 24 frames per second the only way to recreate it properly is by showing it at a multiple of 24. The 3:2 effect is known as "judder" because the film is now uneven, albeit at such a small moment in time that most people don't notice it.

The effect of shooting at only 24 frames per second can appear choppy because we can perceive motion much quicker than this, but it's not "judder" in the more widely used term which is what describes 3:2

The only way to remove the "choppiness" of 24p is to film at 60 frames per second.

[MrRoy]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I think you have a different idea of what judder is.
Judder refers to what 3:2 telecine creates.
Because most sets are 60Hz, a 24Hz source is converted by showing the first frame twice and the second one three times.
So the first 6 frames of a 24p source are shown like this:

1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6

The "judder" is caused because the time-axis is off. If you shoot something at 24 frames per second the only way to recreate it properly is by showing it at a multiple of 24. The 3:2 effect is known as "judder" because the film is now uneven, albeit at such a small moment in time that most people don't notice it.

The effect of shooting at only 24 frames per second can appear choppy because we can perceive motion much quicker than this, but it's not "judder" in the more widely used term which is what describes 3:2

The only way to remove the "choppiness" of 24p is to film at 60 frames per second.

So it isn't judder, it is just choppy because of the way we perceive motion?

[GeneD5]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I think you have a different idea of what judder is.
Judder refers to what 3:2 telecine creates.
Because most sets are 60Hz, a 24Hz source is converted by showing the first frame twice and the second one three times.
So the first 6 frames of a 24p source are shown like this:

1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6

The "judder" is caused because the time-axis is off. If you shoot something at 24 frames per second the only way to recreate it properly is by showing it at a multiple of 24. The 3:2 effect is known as "judder" because the film is now uneven, albeit at such a small moment in time that most people don't notice it.

The effect of shooting at only 24 frames per second can appear choppy because we can perceive motion much quicker than this, but it's not "judder" in the more widely used term which is what describes 3:2

The only way to remove the "choppiness" of 24p is to film at 60 frames per second.

Is that what 3:2 pulldown is? If so that is the first explanation that has made sense to me...

[kx11]

120hz is for games that has frame problems not movies

but i wanna have one of those because of the 10-bit video proccesing feautre

[BigBluu]

i don't like it either, at least not at full effect. it looks like a home video. my brother has a samsung with the effect dialed down halfway and it's much better.

[bootman]

What player do you have?
Does it look the same if you play at 24p?
Can you turn off ACE?
Is game mode on or off?

[MrRoy]

If you are talking to me, the 1080/24p kind of looks like 120hz. The 24p set that i have refreshes at 48hz so it displays every frame 2 x's and the 120hz tv's usually do it 5 x's (that is the way that i understand it).

I don't know what ACE is, but I have any adjusters/enhancers turned off. Game mode is turned off too.

Oh, and I am using my PS3 as the BD player.

[ccplant]

Originally Posted by Cortiz

I just bought a new 120hz Sony LCD and the 1st Blu Ray movie I watched was Pirates of The Caribbean: At World's End and was very surprised at how fake the picture looked! The picture looked so fake that I thought I was watching a cartoon version of Pirates of The Caribbean.

I would like to get the impression from anyone on this forum that also owns a 120hz LCD.

Cortiz, Im pretty sure you have to change your Blu-ray Player output from 60i/60p to 24fps. It's the only way your TV will display you movies correctly. I've heard nothing but great things about this TV from people who have it setup properly. If it's running at 60i/60p it might look weird.

I've been looking into this myself and heard that what you have to do is have your player running 24fps and/or have the Motionflow (or whatever it's called) turned off. Motionflow is best used for SD television. In-fact I heard people saying that it makes a big improvement on SD content.

[jcurra01]

Originally Posted by Cortiz

I just bought a new 120hz Sony LCD and the 1st Blu Ray movie I watched was Pirates of The Caribbean: At World's End and was very surprised at how fake the picture looked! The picture looked so fake that I thought I was watching a cartoon version of Pirates of The Caribbean.

I would like to get the impression from anyone on this forum that also owns a 120hz LCD.

Yea, I think it looks amazing. It makes movies look like you are watching the MAKING of the movie.

Anyway, I think this will be the new standard in HD. You can bet they'll perfect this and remove ALL judder from it in the future.

[Tim Swenson]

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My System: 32"Sharp Aqous true 1080p Flat Plat Monitor
Playstation 3 (with incorporated Blu Ray true 1080p Reader
Onkyo M-504 Dual Single Amp Power Amplifier
Onkyo P-304 Integra Pre-Amp, Yamaha EQ-70 Graphic Equalizer
Onkyo T-4500 Integra Receiver, Polk Monitor Series 2