Blu Ray Playback on HTPC

[dlp710]

I just recently added a blu ray drive to my home theater pc, model SONY BD-ROM BDU-X10S. For software players, I've tried WinDVD, PowerDVD Ultra, and ArcSoft TotalMedia Theater....so far I like TotalMedia theater the best.

One of the things I've been noticing is the playback of different blu ray dvd's. During playback, totalmedia theater has a information tab which displays the Mbps that your dvd is demanding during playback; which varies greatly depending on the BR dvd. I've noticed that some hover around 10Mbps while others go up to 40Mbps!! This tells me that not all BR dvd's have the same quality; 10Mbps are probably running at a 720p resolution while the 30Mbps and above are full 1080p resolution - a difference that you may not be able to catch with your eyes, but your CPU can sure tell the difference! With my setup, my dual core 3.4ghz cpu runs averages 20% while processing the 10Mbps and 69%+ while working with the 40Mbps and up. BR playback is super smooth below 20Mbps, but when it gets in the 30Mbps range and up my cpu starts to peg which leads to dropped frames and overall poor playback.

Reason for this post is to ask for advice on what I can do to ensure smooth playback during higher Mbps dvd's. My HTPC meets all the specs....but can't handle the 1080p dvd's....someone should through those specs away!

Following is my setup:
Pentium 4 dual core 3.4ghz cpu
ATI Radeon HD3870 using H/W acceleration
SONY BD-ROM BDU-X10S (via SATA 133 connection)
4GB Ram
Windows Vista Ultimate

I've also recently made a change to use the CoreAVC codec, which reduces the 1080p stutter, but it is still unacceptable - perhaps there is a faster codec out there that may help me??

The bottom line is I think I need to upgrade my cpu to improve playback at 1080p, but from what I've read is that the HD3870 should do most or all of the video processing (with H/W acceleration) - apparently it can't keep up with 1080p so it offloads some of it to my cpu's which can't keep up either.

If anyone wants to test out playing a demanding BR dvd rent "Africa The Serhenghetti" http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Africa_...=442243676_7_0. If this plays smoothly, I'd be interested in hearing your setup and also confirm the Mbps for the dvd. Just make sure you rent the BR version .

Moral of the story is....just because your HTPC can play 1 BR dvd well does not mean it can play all of them well....although blu ray implies high definition, HD ranges from 720p to 1080p and up, which is like comparing apples to oranges, especially on large displays.

[JadedRaverLA]

Originally Posted by dlp710

One of the things I've been noticing is the playback of different blu ray dvd's. During playback, totalmedia theater has a information tab which displays the Mbps that your dvd is demanding during playback; which varies greatly depending on the BR dvd. I've noticed that some hover around 10Mbps while others go up to 40Mbps!! This tells me that not all BR dvd's have the same quality; 10Mbps are probably running at a 720p resolution while the 30Mbps and above are full 1080p resolution - a difference that you may not be able to catch with your eyes, but your CPU can sure tell the difference!

While its very true that not all Blu-rays have the same quality, the encoded resolution even on the "bitstarved" 10-13Mbps titles is still 1080p. Does a 10 Mbps 1080p stream look quite as good as a 30-40Mpbs stream? Usually not. But then again, does a 30-40Mbps stream look as good as a 440Mbps HDCAM SR master tape? Again, probably not. But they're all still 1080p.

Originally Posted by dlp710

With my setup, my dual core 3.4ghz cpu runs averages 20% while processing the 10Mbps and 69%+ while working with the 40Mbps and up. BR playback is super smooth below 20Mbps, but when it gets in the 30Mbps range and up my cpu starts to peg which leads to dropped frames and overall poor playback.

I think you're oversimplifying a bit. My guess is that the 10Mbps title(s) you are testing are using the VC-1 codec, while the title(s) you are testing around 30Mbps are using AVC. (I say that only because the only studio regularly putting out encodes with bitrates that low is Warner, and they use VC-1). AVC is a far more demanding codec for decoding, so, in addition to the extra processing power needed for the higher bitrate, you also have a more difficult codec.

Originally Posted by dlp710

Reason for this post is to ask for advice on what I can do to ensure smooth playback during higher Mbps dvd's. My HTPC meets all the specs....but can't handle the 1080p dvd's....someone should through those specs away!

Following is my setup:
Pentium 4 dual core 3.4ghz cpu
ATI Radeon HD3870 using H/W acceleration
SONY BD-ROM BDU-X10S (via SATA 133 connection)
4GB Ram
Windows Vista Ultimate

Your specs should be fine (BTW, its SATA 150, not 133). Are you updated to the very latest video card drivers?

Originally Posted by dlp710

I've also recently made a change to use the CoreAVC codec, which reduces the 1080p stutter, but it is still unacceptable - perhaps there is a faster codec out there that may help me??

I think you are seeing a placebo effect there. CoreAVC is a great codec, but none of the current Blu-ray software players can use an external DirectShow codec... only the codecs built into the programs themselves. Anyway, I know of nothing faster than CoreAVC... but, again, there's no way to use another codec currently even if there was a faster codec.

Originally Posted by dlp710

The bottom line is I think I need to upgrade my cpu to improve playback at 1080p, but from what I've read is that the HD3870 should do most or all of the video processing (with H/W acceleration) - apparently it can't keep up with 1080p so it offloads some of it to my cpu's which can't keep up either.

I've gotten high bitrate AVC Blu-ray's playing fine in lesser systems, but can't quite figure out where the bottleneck is in your system. Again, make sure you have the latest video card drivers, so that as much as possible is being offloaded. Also, keep in mind that we frequently talk about H/W acceleration and offloading as if your CPU shouldn't have much of anything to do. That's really not the case. The video decoding and outputting of video involves many steps, some of which the 3870 can offload... others get left with the CPU. So, no matter what, your CPU is still going to get a bit of a workout -- just not as big of one that it is getting on your setup.

Originally Posted by dlp710

Moral of the story is....just because your HTPC can play 1 BR dvd well does not mean it can play all of them well....although blu ray implies high definition, HD ranges from 720p to 1080p and up, which is like comparing apples to oranges, especially on large displays.

The first part of that statement is VERY true. The second part, not so much. Aside from porn titles, pretty much everything released on Blu-ray is 1080i60 or 1080p24. The bitrates very considerably, but those two resolutions are used pretty much exclusively. But, yes, just because a low bitrate VC-1 Warner release plays well, it definitely doesn't mean a more difficult title will.

BTW, I saw you mentioned Africa: The Serengeti. That's not the only title giving you problems is it? If it is, it may not be a problem with your PC. That disc plays a bit loose with the max bitrate specs and I know others have had issues where the disc just isn't being read fast enough so it occaisonally stutters.

If it is more than just that disc, I would just try some difficult discs on the various player apps and seeing which of them handles decoding difficult material the best. If none of them do an acceptable job, then you may have too many other things going on with your computer. A clean install of Windows may fix the issue somewhat... or, as you suggested... a new processor would help.

[Rojas]

Moral of the story is....just because your HTPC can play 1 BR dvd well does not mean it can play all of them well....although blu ray implies high definition, HD ranges from 720p to 1080p and up, which is like comparing apples to oranges, especially on large displays.[/QUOTE]

You want to know if your system can play all BD then rent Live free and die hard it uses AVC with DTS HD audio, if you could play that movie you could play them all. By the way the Pentium 4 will not work you need to
upgrade, i recommend intel Q6600 @ 2.4 or better, don't forget the audio
DTS HD needs a faster CPU then DD, also the movie (Shoot E'm Up) is very
CPU demanding its coded in VC-1 with high bitrate and DTS HD MA audio.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by Rojas

Moral of the story is....just because your HTPC can play 1 BR dvd well does not mean it can play all of them well....although blu ray implies high definition, HD ranges from 720p to 1080p and up, which is like comparing apples to oranges, especially on large displays.

You want to know if your system can play all BD then rent Live free and die hard it uses AVC with DTS HD audio, if you could play that movie you could play them all. By the way the Pentium 4 will not work you need to
upgrade, i recommend intel Q6600 @ 2.4 or better, don't forget the audio
DTS HD needs a faster CPU then DD, also the movie (Shoot E'm Up) is very
CPU demanding its coded in VC-1 with high bitrate and DTS HD MA audio.

I can play every BD that I've thrown at my machine I have a core 2 duo 6400 (not a quad) and I play DTS HD MA just fine no studders or dropouts . I would upgrade the OP's processor but a quad is not required for DTS-HD MSTR , a core 2 duo 6300 or above will do just fine. I can even surf the net and do other functions and let my BD play without a glitch (I don't do this often because I want to watch the movie - I just did it to test multi-tasking). Total Media Theatre is turning into a great app - I only use it and WinDVD 9 Plus BD for playback now (and I usually only use WinDVD 9 Plus BD for regular DVD playback for its all2hd funciton -BD's are usually played exclusively by TMT since the recent update ).

[Rojas]

Originally Posted by prerich

I can play every BD that I've thrown at my machine I have a core 2 duo 6400 (not a quad) and I play DTS HD MA just fine no studders or dropouts . I would upgrade the OP's processor but a quad is not required for DTS-HD MSTR , a core 2 duo 6300 or above will do just fine. I can even surf the net and do other functions and let my BD play without a glitch (I don't do this often because I want to watch the movie - I just did it to test multi-tasking). Total Media Theatre is turning into a great app - I only use it and WinDVD 9 Plus BD for playback now (and I usually only use WinDVD 9 Plus BD for regular DVD playback for its all2hd funciton -BD's are usually played exclusively by TMT since the recent update ).

True you could play BD with a Core 2 Duo but, he has an old Pentium 4
motherboard that has to be replaced. if he is replacing the board and
processor why not get the faster newest Quad processor.

[muckymuck]

I'm reading this thread and realizing I may be in over my head. I just got my new internal LiteOn 401S this week (NewEgg, as mentioned in an earlier post). The installation went well enough, but that was pretty much where the fun stopped. I'm not sure how I missed it all, but I guess I didn't realize everything that would be required to play BD on a PC.

The PC itself should be no problem. Core 2 E8400, clocked at 3.6GHz, video card is a GeForce 8600GTS. First it was the issue with the monitor. Apparently, neither my 20" Samsung nor my 19" FujiPlus (no suprise there) is HDCP compliant. I've had to resort to an analog VGA connection for the monitor. Now I can play some BD content, but never the feature movie itself. Once I get to the main menu, I can't get beyond it. And what material I can play, plays only in a small window - full-screen playback causes the bottom section of the screen to turn into a vertical blur that looks like a reflection of the bottom section of the picture.

This stinks! It looks like I'll need a new monitor, but would even that allow me to play the actual movie? Full-screen? I'm thinking about sending the BD drive back to NewEgg and sticking to my Panasonic BD player.

[Rojas]

[my 20" Samsung nor my 19" FujiPlus (no suprise there) is HDCP compliant.]

no problem go to slysoft.com and get (AnyDVD HD) they have a demo you could try to see if it works for you. no need to purchase a new monitor because its not HDCP Compliant