Help with audio setup

[thekobrakais]

Hey guys,

i need some help/information on my audio setup.

I currently have a Vizio VO47LF, Sony BDP-S350, and an old Sony 5.1 HTiB.

Since the receiver is old, it obviously doesn't have HDMI. I have the blu-ray player connected via HDMI to the Vizio for video and optical straight to the receiver for audio.

I understand that you can't get lossless audio with optical. But what exactly is my receiver doing on blu-rays that have Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master Audio? Am I losing quality as it tries to convert it to DD 5.1?

The reason I ask is because I watched Iron Man and Transformers the other day and the audio on Iron Man was great, but I found Transformers a little weak in comparison. Both have the Dolby TrueHD and both have had great audio reviews.

Any ideas?

[BluLobsta]

I'm definintely a noob at this, but I believe if the BD player can decode TrueHD and DTS Master, which the S350 can, then the analog outs to your receiver should be fine. You should hear these two formats.

[minimo]

If you are using optical cable and your player is decoding you will only receive 2.0 lossless.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=40821

[BluLobsta]

Yup, just use the analog (Line Out) jacks instead.

[thekobrakais]

Originally Posted by minimo

If you are using optical cable and your player is decoding you will only receive 2.0 lossless.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=40821

I'm definitely hearing 5.1. My speakers are connected to the receiver with speaker wire, not RCA. And I have it set to bitstream so my receiver can do the encoding.

Does that sound right? Has anyone else experienced low bass levels with Transformers?

[thekobrakais]

Originally Posted by BluLobsta

Yup, just use the analog (Line Out) jacks instead.

My speakers are not RCA, but wired. Plus, I think I'd rather have the full 5.1 working.

I just didn't know if I am losing a significant amount of quality by setting my player to bitstream and letting the receiver handle everything.

I just wasn't sure how the receiver is processing the conversions.

[BluLobsta]

Nah, run Line Out on S350 to Line In on receiver, not speakers. Amplify the sound, then distribute to speakers...

[thekobrakais]

Originally Posted by BluLobsta

Nah, run Line Out on S350 to Line In on receiver, not speakers. Amplify the sound, then distribute to speakers...

won't this still only give me 2.0?

[aramis109]

Ugh. Guys, there's a lot of inaccurate information in this thread. If you're not sure... it's better to check or hold off on posting before you end up spreading FUD.

Here's the deal. Your player only has 2.0 analog outs. Forget using that at all. Your HTiB sounds like it has an optical out. Use this. In your player menu, select "bitstream". This will make sure that it doesn't try and decode lossless audio, since at best you'll only get 2.0 from that.

With it set like that, you'll be able to get 5.1 sound. Here's the deal- DTS-HD MA and TrueHD more or less have a core track. DTS-HD MA's core track is DTS and TrueHD's "core" track is DD 5.1. This way it'll default to the lossy core track and you'll get surround sound which is still better than what's on DVD.

The only caveat to this is if your HTiB can decode DTS or not. Got a model # for it?

[BluLobsta]

Well, poo, I thought you could set the receiver to matrix 5.1 output from an analog input. My noobishness is showing ... so much to learn...

[SDBlu]

Originally Posted by thekobrakais

I'm definitely hearing 5.1. My speakers are connected to the receiver with speaker wire, not RCA. And I have it set to bitstream so my receiver can do the encoding.

Does that sound right? Has anyone else experienced low bass levels with Transformers?

No! As a matter of fact, TRANSFORMERS is one of my best sounding blu's! It is reference material for me... and I actually find Ironman to sound a bit weak.

[thekobrakais]

Originally Posted by aramis109

Ugh. Guys, there's a lot of inaccurate information in this thread. If you're not sure... it's better to check or hold off on posting before you end up spreading FUD.

Here's the deal. Your player only has 2.0 analog outs. Forget using that at all. Your HTiB sounds like it has an optical out. Use this. In your player menu, select "bitstream". This will make sure that it doesn't try and decode lossless audio, since at best you'll only get 2.0 from that.

With it set like that, you'll be able to get 5.1 sound. Here's the deal- DTS-HD MA and TrueHD more or less have a core track. DTS-HD MA's core track is DTS and TrueHD's "core" track is DD 5.1. This way it'll default to the lossy core track and you'll get surround sound which is still better than what's on DVD.

The only caveat to this is if your HTiB can decode DTS or not. Got a model # for it?

Thank you for the info. I do currently have the blu-ray player connected to my receiver going optical in order to get 5.1. And yes, my receiver does decode Dolby Digital and DTS. Overall, I'm very happy with what I have.

I think my original question got lost as the posts went on. I was concerned that I might be losing additional audio quality as my receiver was converting Dolby TrueHD to DD. Basically, not knowing if my receiver knew how to properly handle the conversion.

The reason I ask is because Transformers sounded so weak (subwoofer mostly) compared to Iron Man, both with great audio reviews and both Dolby TrueHD tracks.

Maybe I'm just expecting too much out of Transformers...who knows.

[thekobrakais]

Originally Posted by MarcosG

No! As a matter of fact, TRANSFORMERS is one of my best sounding blu's! It is reference material for me... and I actually find Ironman to sound a bit weak.

Good to know! Maybe I just need to crank the speakers more.

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by thekobrakais

Thank you for the info. I do currently have the blu-ray player connected to my receiver going optical in order to get 5.1. And yes, my receiver does decode Dolby Digital and DTS. Overall, I'm very happy with what I have.

I think my original question got lost as the posts went on. I was concerned that I might be losing additional audio quality as my receiver was converting Dolby TrueHD to DD. Basically, not knowing if my receiver knew how to properly handle the conversion.

The reason I ask is because Transformers sounded so weak (subwoofer mostly) compared to Iron Man, both with great audio reviews and both Dolby TrueHD tracks.

Maybe I'm just expecting too much out of Transformers...who knows.

Sorry- I should've been clearer. My post about the core tracks actually answers that concern. You're not losing any quality as the receiver is only decoding DD and DTS, not doing any converting. That's the "core track" bit I was talking about.

*edit* Also- hard to compare two different soundtracks- they're mixed differently. On Transformers, check out the Ironhide flip he does late in the movie. If that doesn't rumble your sub, nothing will.

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by BluLobsta

Well, poo, I thought you could set the receiver to matrix 5.1 output from an analog input. My noobishness is showing ... so much to learn...

There are receivers that can matrix PCM, but typically they're THX certified (like the Onkyo 705 and up) or higher end. I don't think his HTiB is going to be able to do that. On top of that, matrixing a 2.0 lossless isn't going to sound as good as a 5.1 lossy in my opinion.

[thekobrakais]

Originally Posted by aramis109

There are receivers that can matrix PCM, but typically they're THX certified (like the Onkyo 705 and up) or higher end. I don't think his HTiB is going to be able to do that. On top of that, matrixing a 2.0 lossless isn't going to sound as good as a 5.1 lossy in my opinion.

you are correct! my HTiB is pretty old and definitely not THX certified.

[jomari]

as mentioned earlier, theres a little bit of confusion here. and hopefully aramis has been able to clarify the said issue.

so, to recap what was learned here,
1. sony s350 connected to the htib via optical cable,
2. you are using the dts/dd soundtracks

normally, the higher end formats (DTSMA DDHD) has a core track inside used for those receivers that cannot handle the newer formats. you are essentially getting a better signal compared to a DVD, but a 'minimized' amount of the aforementioned DTSMA/DDHD. is this a bad thing? not really, considering your current setup would work just fine for the moment.

about the PCM part, most of the times they are downmixed to 2 channels depending on the source, connections, the reciever, the player and a number of variables. the S350 doesnt have multichannel outs, neither does the BD-30 from panasonic. Their older brothers do tho.

IF you had a receiver that DOES have multichannel inputs, you can have the player go linear pcm, it distrubutes the details to the appropriate channel, then your receiver plays it via the speakers as mentioned previously. to quote big daddy on this...

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

LAYPERSON’S GUIDE TO HD AUDIO

HDMI Connection to the Receiver, Player Set to LPCM

• Player reads the Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD MA signals from the disc.
• The player unpacks the TrueHD or DTS HD signals and converts it to LPCM (still digital).
• The player sends the LPCM signals to the receiver through the HDMI cable.
• The receiver converts the Digital LPCM signals to Analog signals (D/A chip required).
• The receiver sends the analog signals to the speakers.

HDMI Connection to the Receiver, Player Set to Bitstream

• Player reads the Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD MA signals from the disc.
• The player sends the raw unpacked signals to the receiver through the HDMI cable.
• The receiver unpacks the TrueHD or DTS HD signals.
• The receiver converts the Digital signals to Analog signal (D/A chip required).
• The receiver sends the analog signals to the speakers.

Multi-Channel Analog Connection to the Receiver, Player Set to Analog Output (see footnote)

• Player reads the Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD MA signals from the disc.
• The player unpacks the TrueHD or DTS HD signals and converts it to LPCM (still digital).
• The player converts the Digital signals to Analog signal (D/A chip required).
• The player sends the analog signals to the receiver through the RCA cables.
• The receiver receives the analog signals and sends them to the speakers.

Which one is better? It all depends on the quality of the chips and circuits in the player and the receiver. In the case of most recent high quality equipment, the difference is minimal.

Footnote:
When a disc player is connected to a receiver with multi-channel analog cables, the player must perform digital to analog decoding and send the analog signal to the receiver. In this case, calibration and bass management adjustments such as speaker sizes and channel levels should be done in the player's setup menus or the receiver must have bass management for the 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 ANALOG inputs. If the player lacks calibration adjustments or the receiver cannot perform adjustments for analog inputs, bass management cannot be performed.