24p capable 50" or 52" flat panels

[zsultan]

Hi,

I bought a panasonic 50" plasma PZ85U 2 days back and realized that it doesnt acceopt 1080p/24p input and PZ800U does accept but read lot of not very satisfactory customer reviews.

I am thinking of returing 85U and getting a 24p capable HDTV. I am looking into Sony Bravia.

Appreciate if you could let me know good 50" or 52" HDTVs with good picture and 24p capability.

Thanks in advance.

[kpkelley]

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=5155

Also, do not confuse negative comments on Interpolation with negative comments on 24p(120hz/72hz) as they are not the same thing.

[TooBlu]

Yo, I own a Panasonic 800u and the 24p is suppose to be the "Filmic" look over the 60hz. In my personal opinion...if you are really wanting the 24p with NO FLICKER...I would go with the series 8 Samsung Ln52-850 I had this set for 3 weeks and loved it..but it had straches on the bezel..and i got back the 800U...the Sammy has the best 24p mode I have seen man, it has 0 Judder and 0 flicker ..and it is running at 1080@24!!!! The Panasonic is 48hz and is has a bad flicker

[zsultan]

How is the over all PQ of Samsung Ln52-850 over Panasonic 800U?

THanks

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by TooBlu

Yo, I own a Panasonic 800u and the 24p is suppose to be the "Filmic" look over the 60hz. In my personal opinion...if you are really wanting the 24p with NO FLICKER...I would go with the series 8 Samsung Ln52-850 I had this set for 3 weeks and loved it..but it had straches on the bezel..and i got back the 800U...the Sammy has the best 24p mode I have seen man, it has 0 Judder and 0 flicker ..and it is running at 1080@24!!!! The Panasonic is 48hz and is has a bad flicker

I'm sorry but you don't know what you're talking about and I've tried to tell you this before - the Samsung runs at 60Hz or 120Hz, not 24Hz.

There are no consumer sets available with 24Hz refresh rate - the flicker would be FAR too noticeable. The cinema runs at 48Hz and you can see the flicker there, imagine it going at half speed.

http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/d...LN52A850S1FXZA

That's the LN52A850 link. Nowhere will you find anythign about 1080p24 other than handshaking and 5:5 pulldown (120Hz)

The lowest vertical frequency the LN52A850 has is 59.940Hz.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by zsultan

Hi,

I bought a panasonic 50" plasma PZ85U 2 days back and realized that it doesnt acceopt 1080p/24p input and PZ800U does accept but read lot of not very satisfactory customer reviews.

I am thinking of returing 85U and getting a 24p capable HDTV. I am looking into Sony Bravia.

Appreciate if you could let me know good 50" or 52" HDTVs with good picture and 24p capability.

Thanks in advance.

All the -8 series sets from Panasonic accept a 24p signal. The 800U has 48Hz mode, the 85U does not, so the 85U will perform 2:3 processing on the 1080p24 signal to get it to 1080p60.

If you want one of the best TV's on the market you could look into the PDP-5020FD from Pioneer. It accepts a 1080p24 signal and displays it at 72Hz. You will not get that sort of performance from Sony Bravia and to get picture quality that begins to get close to the high end plasma sets will cost you twice as much.

Please use the thread that is stickied at the top of the page to peruse sets that are capable of displaying 1080p24 content at a refresh rate that's divisible by 24.

[zsultan]

DobyBlue,

Thanks for the info, so what you are saying is even if i go with a 24p capable HDTVs like Sony Bravia or Samsung, they will not deliver 24p quality that expensive Pioneer ones do.

So, Do you think it's OK to stick with 85U? because i dont want to spend extra $500 or $600 on Bravia or samsung if they dont do good job with 24p?

THanks again

[TooBlu]

DUDE..trust me..I had the tv and when I was watching a Blu Rays on it I would hit the INFO and the 1080@24 would show up....So the Sammy is not running at that you are saying? Please I want to know

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I'm sorry but you don't know what you're talking about and I've tried to tell you this before - the Samsung runs at 60Hz or 120Hz, not 24Hz.

There are no consumer sets available with 24Hz refresh rate - the flicker would be FAR too noticeable. The cinema runs at 48Hz and you can see the flicker there, imagine it going at half speed.

http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/d...LN52A850S1FXZA

That's the LN52A850 link. Nowhere will you find anythign about 1080p24 other than handshaking and 5:5 pulldown (120Hz)

The lowest vertical frequency the LN52A850 has is 59.940Hz.

I think he is referring to the fact that his tv refreshes at a rate that is compatable with 24p. Meaning, 120hz will produce a smoother picture with a 24p source than a monitor that only does 60hz. I am sure his display does say 24p(as my Pioneer does too even though it is 72hz), because they do not say 120hz or 72hz on the display. Most people use the 24p term to describe their frame rate compatable monitor.

[zsultan]

Just now i went to Magnolia and checked out 1080p24p on a Pioneer 60" plasma, denon blu ray player and the blu ray disc was Pirates of the carriebian 2.

I asked the sales person to switch between 1080p and 108024p resolution on blu ray player. I really couldnt tell the difference.

Is the difference really significant? or did i miss anything?

Please advise

Thanks in advance.

[sokrman14]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

All the -8 series sets from Panasonic accept a 24p signal. The 800U has 48Hz mode, the 85U does not, so the 85U will perform 2:3 processing on the 1080p24 signal to get it to 1080p60.

If you want one of the best TV's on the market you could look into the PDP-5020FD from Pioneer. It accepts a 1080p24 signal and displays it at 72Hz. You will not get that sort of performance from Sony Bravia and to get picture quality that begins to get close to the high end plasma sets will cost you twice as much.

Please use the thread that is stickied at the top of the page to peruse sets that are capable of displaying 1080p24 content at a refresh rate that's divisible by 24.

This guy is very accurate with his data, please listen to him guys!!!

[Blu_Ray_Fan]

Originally Posted by TooBlu

DUDE..trust me..I had the tv and when I was watching a Blu Rays on it I would hit the INFO and the 1080@24 would show up....So the Sammy is not running at that you are saying? Please I want to know

No, they do not run at 24fps. All HDTV's that are rated to accept 24fps multiply it in some way. Example: My Sony SXRD "accepts" 24fps, then multiplies by 4 and displays it at 96fps. Keep in mind that this has nothing to do with "motion flow" (I have that turned off)

Any other questions?

[HDTV1080P]

When one presses the info button on a TV it is only displaying the input signal being received. On many displays that accept 1080P/24 the signal is converted to 60HZ using a 3:2 pulldown process. There is no advantage to having a 1080P/24 input on a TV if it is converted to 60HZ. No film projector or TV displays images at 24fps because there would be a unwatchable flicker on the screen. 35MM and 75MM film in the theater is encoded at 24fps and the projector flashes the images on the screen at multiplies of the original frame (48HZ, 72HZ, etc).
That being said 1080P/60 displays still look very good with BLU-RAY. A true 1080P/24 display that properly displays 1080P/24 will look more like film with nice smooth camera pans. Eliminating the 60HZ 3:2 pulldown process just eliminates the 3:2 pulldown judder during camera pans and gives the image a more film quality look compared to 60HZ video.

[Blu_Ray_Fan]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

When one presses the info button on a TV it is only displaying the input signal being received. On many displays that accept 1080P/24 the signal is converted to 60HZ using a 3:2 pulldown process. There is no advantage to having a 1080P/24 input on a TV if it is converted to 60HZ. No film projector or TV displays images at 24fps because there would be a unwatchable flicker on the screen. 35MM and 75MM film in the theater is encoded at 24fps and the projector flashes the images on the screen at multiplies of the original frame (48HZ, 72HZ, etc).
That being said 1080P/60 displays still look very good with BLU-RAY. A true 1080P/24 display that properly displays 1080P/24 will look more like film with nice smooth camera pans. Eliminating the 60HZ 3:2 pulldown process just eliminates the 3:2 pulldown judder during camera pans and gives the image a more film quality look compared to 60HZ video.

Correct! All 1080p 24fps display's "convert" it to a higher fps, but what you acomplish is the elimination of 3:2 pulldown... and that is HUGE! If you can afford it, buy a "24fps" display... it's worth every penny!

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

There is no advantage to having a 1080P/24 input on a TV if it is converted to 60HZ.

Mostly correct - if your TV does a better job with 3:2 cadence than your player then it is an advantage.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by TooBlu

DUDE..trust me..I had the tv and when I was watching a Blu Rays on it I would hit the INFO and the 1080@24 would show up....So the Sammy is not running at that you are saying? Please I want to know

It is not running at that - it is merely showing you what the input signal is. Your TV is either refreshing at 60Hz or 120Hz.

Originally Posted by zsultan

Just now i went to Magnolia and checked out 1080p24p on a Pioneer 60" plasma, denon blu ray player and the blu ray disc was Pirates of the carriebian 2.

I asked the sales person to switch between 1080p and 108024p resolution on blu ray player. I really couldnt tell the difference.

Is the difference really significant? or did i miss anything?

Please advise

Thanks in advance.

No it is not significant at all - to most people they will not even notice the difference between 1080p24 and 1080p60, because they've become acclimatized to 3:2 pulldown through years of watching DVD.

Originally Posted by jcs913

I think he is referring to the fact that his tv refreshes at a rate that is compatable with 24p.

No, he was under the impression that his display refreshes at 24Hz, but I think he understands better now.

Originally Posted by Blu_Ray_Fan

No, they do not run at 24fps. All HDTV's that are rated to accept 24fps multiply it in some way. Example: My Sony SXRD "accepts" 24fps, then multiplies by 4 and displays it at 96fps. Keep in mind that this has nothing to do with "motion flow" (I have that turned off)

Any other questions?

Not all of them multiply it, there are numerous sets that accept a 1080p24 signal and then perform 3:2 pulldown on it. In fact even some of the 120Hz tv's only use 3:2 pulldown to get to 60Hz and then double it, which doesn't eliminate 3:2 judder at all.

Originally Posted by zsultan

Do you think it's OK to stick with 85U?

It's definitely OK - it's a beautiful TV.

[zsultan]

Watch Fast-Moving Scenes with Clear, Vivid Resolution
The 480hz Sub-Field Drive self-illuminating plasma display features high moving picture resolution, so you enjoy smooth, clear motion in sporting events and action movies.


Got the above from panasonic site in specifications of 85U.

Does this feature help in removing it 3:2 judder? if not completely little bit?

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Mostly correct - if your TV does a better job with 3:2 cadence than your player then it is an advantage.

You are correct. I should have said the main purpose of 1080P/24 is to bypass the 3:2 pulldown process in both the TV and BLU-RAY player. In prior threads over the last couple years I have mentioned that if ones TV is only 60HZ and contains a 1080P/24 input that sometimes using the 1080P/24 input on a TV with 60HZ will provide a better picture if the 3:2 pulldown process is better in the TV compared to the BLU-RAY player.
It would have been much better for the consumer electronics industry and less confusing if the manufactories would have only placed 1080P/24 inputs on displays that refreshed at multiplies of 24fps. Of course almost every company accept Pioneer decided to make lower cost 1080P 60HZ displays that included a 1080P/24 input. The average consumer when purchasing a 1080P 60HZ refresh display that has a 1080P/24 input are under the illusion that they are getting the benefits of 1080P/24 when they really are not. The nice thing about Pioneer is that on all of their Pioneer Plasma displays that are labeled 1080P they all properly handle 1080P/24 including all old models. In fact the old 720P (768P) Pioneer Plasmas that do have a 1080P/24 input they properly refresh the image at 72HZ while downconverting the 1080P/24 image to 720P 72HZ.
Pioneer made a business decision regarding 1080P/24 to 100% of the time properly handle 1080P/24 at multiplies of 24 on all models that include that feature.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by zsultan

Watch Fast-Moving Scenes with Clear, Vivid Resolution
The 480hz Sub-Field Drive self-illuminating plasma display features high moving picture resolution, so you enjoy smooth, clear motion in sporting events and action movies.


Got the above from panasonic site in specifications of 85U.

Does this feature help in removing it 3:2 judder? if not completely little bit?

It helps with the processing, locking onto an interlaced signal, figuring out 2:3 cadence on film-based material, etc.

It's nothing to do with judder, which is simply caused by showing frames in the following method

1080p24 source
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

TH-50PZ85U
1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6

As you can see, every even frame is shown three times, every odd-numbered frame is shown two times.

This gets 24 to 60.

You might find the following read helpful:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...07-part-1.html