Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

Plus they mention wanting to use Orson Welles but thought the voice would be too familiar. Last time I checked, Welles wasn't black so again which story are you supposed to believe.

And why did Vader have to have a black voice? Which he didn't anyway - with the approach Jones took to the voice and the special effects layered on top of it, it didn't even really sound like Jones. I don't think I recognized the voice as being James Earl Jones when I saw the first film and I was very familiar with his work.

Although Welles had done some popular wine commercials, especially with the effects added, I don't think anyone would have recognized the voice of Welles either. He did very little film or TV work in the immediate years preceding Star Wars. About the only thing of any significance was his role as banker Henry Potter in a TV-movie remake of "It's A Wonderful Life" with Marlo Thomas in the James Stewart role. It's too bad he didn't do Star Wars - it might have revived his career.

Actually, one of the flaws in the PT IMO is the fact that young Anakin sounds nothing like Vader. You can rationalize that Vader is speaking with mechanical/electronic assistance, but his pronunciation and diction is completely different than either young Anakin in the PT or the Anakin revealed at the end of Episode VI. Did Vader take "Speech Lessons for Villains 101" at Empire University between episodes III and IV?

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

All of this speculation is hilarious. Of course Lucas didn't have all six films planned out in great detail. How could he? The basic points were all there from the beginning though - the rise and fall of Anakin, Palpatine taking control of the senate, the rise of the Empire, and Luke redeeming his father.

Uh, no, LOL - it wasn't.

Anakin and Vader were not even the same character until well into writing of ESB - and that's not "speculation", it's official Lucasfilm-sanctioned fact from the recent Rinzler Making Of books published by LucasBooks. It goes into excruciating detail draft by draft of each script.

Obi-wan's statements in ANH were meant to be literal - there was no subtext or subterfuge originally intended - Darth Vader killed Anakin Skywalker.

Really, basically "all mysteries" and most of the fan-assumption about a lot of things has been completely debunked by the recently released Making Of books as well as the Secret History of Star Wars (not officially sanctioned like the Making of Books, but meticulously researched backed up by more documentation than you can imagine, largely quotes from Lucas himself). What's funny is that the books pretty much completely agree with each other, official and unofficial.

Marcia Lucas pretty much saved ANH - it was her editing that brought the film together - that woman deserved every penny she got in their divorce settlement. What was most interesting was, once the script was completed, how little Lucas had to do with ESB while it was in production - he wasn't even on the same continent most of the filming. He absolutely did not like what Kershner was doing and fought against it - yet that ended up as the most revered Star Wars film, to date. For ROTJ, Lucas was there virtually every day, literally standing next to Marquand and either whispering in his ear what to do, or contradicting him after he gave direction (and although in many ways it's my favorite, critically, it's considered the weakest of the 3). And again - every ounce of this is from the OFFICIAL making of books produced and documented from materials (recordings, written records, etc.) from the LucasFilm archives.

The truth is - Lucas is brilliant at world-building - and his vision created a revolution in special effects (before Star Wars, ships in space moved like doped up slugs). But the biggest successes of Star Wars are when he let others with more expertise/ability in the other various aspects of filmmaking (editing, writing, directing) take care of the actual product.

Again, every ounce of this is well-documented at this point. It's why I am so excited about the coming trilogy - Lucas gave us the gift of the Galaxy, and I will always thank him for that - but the best material that has come out has been when others had the reins and could take what he created to the next level.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Thomas Guycott

It basically pulls the plug on Lucas' whole "I had everything planned as one big connected story from the beginning" yarn.

What's funny is Rinzler's current "Making of..." books (which are awesome and everyone should own them) do a good job of presenting that truth as well.

I think that's being over-critical. I think Lucas could well have had the whole thing planned out but once they sat down and actually wrote the scripts, things change. And then they change again in the editing room.

Look how much most movies based on novels change from the book. And you can't be more planned out than having written the novel first.

It's been documented many times for example that Lucas did not originally intend for Vader to have been Anakin. Does the fact that this changed mean that Lucas hadn't planned out the story?

[iamsometal]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

No they don't.
That was established earlier in this ginormous thread somewhere.

Fox owns the rights to A New Hope in perpetuity. The rights to the other 2 OT films and the PT are owned by Fox until 2020. Source: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...-tie-up-384541

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

Uh, no, LOL - it wasn't.

Anakin and Vader were not even the same character until well into writing of ESB - and that's not "speculation", it's official Lucasfilm-sanctioned fact from the recent Rinzler Making Of books published by LucasBooks. It goes into excruciating detail draft by draft of each script.

Obi-wan's statements in ANH were meant to be literal - there was no subtext or subterfuge originally intended - Darth Vader killed Anakin Skywalker.

Nevertheless, Darth Vader was a character who had a back story, however vague it may have been. Just because Lucas hadn't figured out that they were the same character doesn't mean he didn't have Vader's history in mind.

Marcia Lucas pretty much saved ANH - it was her editing that brought the film together - that woman deserved every penny she got in their divorce settlement. What was most interesting was, once the script was completed, how little Lucas had to do with ESB while it was in production - he wasn't even on the same continent most of the filming. He absolutely did not like what Kershner was doing and fought against it - yet that ended up as the most revered Star Wars film, to date. For ROTJ, Lucas was there virtually every day, literally standing next to Marquand and either whispering in his ear what to do, or contradicting him after he gave direction (and although in many ways it's my favorite, critically, it's considered the weakest of the 3). And again - every ounce of this is from the OFFICIAL making of books produced and documented from materials (recordings, written records, etc.) from the LucasFilm archives.

The truth is - Lucas is brilliant at world-building - and his vision created a revolution in special effects (before Star Wars, ships in space moved like doped up slugs). But the biggest successes of Star Wars are when he let others with more expertise/ability in the other various aspects of filmmaking (editing, writing, directing) take care of the actual product.

Again, every ounce of this is well-documented at this point. It's why I am so excited about the coming trilogy - Lucas gave us the gift of the Galaxy, and I will always thank him for that - but the best material that has come out has been when others had the reins and could take what he created to the next level.

It's funny how people can misconstrue and use facts to fit their own agenda. It's pretty pathetic how some of you try to to such things to discredit Lucas' involvement in Empire in particular. No, he wasn't on set everyday - he physically couldn't be and oversee the creation of ILM and deal with financing the film. But he wrote the first draft of the script, had total creative input, and controlled post-production. By Jedi, Lucas had less of a producer hat on and could focus on the principal photography more than with Empire and considering Marquand's inexperience with effects driven action films, I don't see what the problem is with Lucas maintaining a tighter control over the film during production. I know Marcia Lucas did a great job with the editing, but it's an opinion that she "saved" the film by herself, not a fact.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by iamsometal

Fox owns the rights to A New Hope in perpetuity. The rights to the other 2 OT films and the PT are owned by Fox until 2020. Source: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...-tie-up-384541

Yep. So it will be interesting to see if Disney trys(or maybe IS trying) to swing a deal for those distribution rights. One would think, after spending $4 Billion on the franchise Disney would want to start recouping that money right away. As I see the quickest way to do that would be to either:
A) Buy out Fox
B) Release the OT's on BD/dvd

Either way, it would lead in to next December when the Episode VII money starts to roll in.
I'm sure the Rebels show will make some money, but not theatrical type money.

Heck, I think this whole process is pretty entertaining in itself.

[HeavyHitter]

I tend to think next year we will see some kind of Star Wars Blu release to ramp up interest for the new movie. I just hope it's not another "Warner" type of re-packaged release.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

It's been documented many times for example that Lucas did not originally intend for Vader to have been Anakin. Does the fact that this changed mean that Lucas hadn't planned out the story?

That's not an insignificant detail. According to Lucas, the entire saga is the story of Anakin's fall and redemption.

But that wasn't the case when the storytelling started. Anakin was just a simple murder victim when the storytelling started.

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Anakin & Vader were two separate people.

Luke & Leia were also originally not siblings either.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by octagon

That's not an insignificant detail. According to Lucas, the entire saga is the story of Anakin's fall and redemption.

But that wasn't the case when the storytelling started. Anakin was just a simple murder victim when the storytelling started.

Exactly and the fact Vader was trying to kill Luke (even though he didn't know who he was) in the Death Star trench supports that Vader was not Luke's father IMO.

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

And why did Vader have to have a black voice? Which he didn't anyway - with the approach Jones took to the voice and the special effects layered on top of it, it didn't even really sound like Jones. I don't think I recognized the voice as being James Earl Jones when I saw the first film and I was very familiar with his work.

That's why I kind of laugh when he says it was for more black cast members - how many years did it take before people knew who it was? How do you accomplish your goal when people don't know who the actor is?

In the end, Lucas is clearly making it up as he goes along. Just look at the 6 movies - is it really about the rise and fall of Anakin or is it the rise and fall of Ben? That could be claimed just as easily - young man who makes a bad decision with horrible results, guides someone to fix the mistake he made, finally at peace at the end. If Lucas did have this planned out as well as he said, he would have never made some of the choices he did which is why he is changing things now on the blu-rays so the 2 sets of films match a little better. If he planned it out, wouldn't Qui-Gon play a larger role in the other 5 films, wouldn't the war gone on for longer than just the few years, would they have really named it "The Clone War", etc? It makes a good myth but that's about it.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

I tend to think next year we will see some kind of Star Wars Blu release to ramp up interest for the new movie. I just hope it's not another "Warner" type of re-packaged release.

Indeed. And that is what I am waiting for, hoping that the original cuts are the big draw of the next release. They probably won't be, but I am waiting anyway, hoping.

Also the most I could Disney trying to do is get A New Hope as well in 2020, rather than paying a lot to get the whole thing 5 years earlier. 5 years in mega-corporation planning is nothing.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

Marcia Lucas pretty much saved ANH - it was her editing that brought the film together - that woman deserved every penny she got in their divorce settlement. What was most interesting was, once the script was completed, how little Lucas had to do with ESB while it was in production - he wasn't even on the same continent most of the filming. He absolutely did not like what Kershner was doing and fought against it - yet that ended up as the most revered Star Wars film, to date.

This is complete and utter horses--t.


The only time Lucas wasn't on set for TESB was in Norway. For that he had Gary Kurtz on set. The rest of the time, in England, he was very much there.





This book details everything, and it was written and published when Empire was released. I still have this book BTW.


Kersch did what Lucas asked, and Lucas had final approval over everything. The reason he was hired was because they got along very well and there wasn't any significant conflict over what he was doing.


You also realize George and Marcia often worked in tandem while editing A NEW HOPE, and that she wasn't the only editor? George getting ILM to actually work is what saved A NEW HOPE (part of that was reigning in John Dykstra, whom he promptly fired after the film was completed).


I am so sick of the historical revisionism going on in this thread.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

This is complete and utter horses--t.


The only time Lucas wasn't on set for TESB was in Norway. For that he had Gary Kurtz on set. The rest of the time, in England, he was very much there.





This book details everything, and it was written and published when Empire was released. I still have this book BTW.


Kersch did what Lucas asked, and Lucas had final approval over everything. The reason he was hired was because they got along very well and there wasn't any significant conflict over what he was doing.


You also realize George and Marcia often worked in tandem while editing A NEW HOPE, and that she wasn't the only editor? George getting ILM to actually work is what saved A NEW HOPE (part of that was reigning in John Dykstra, whom he promptly fired after the film was completed).


I am so sick of the historical revisionism going on in this thread.

I'm now going to search on ebay for that book.

[warrian]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

I'm now going to search on ebay for that book.

It's worth the effort to find. A great read.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

I'm now going to search on ebay for that book.

There's an excerpt in one of EMPIRE's Star Wars special when Harrison Ford comes up with the 'I know ...' line and David Prowse gives Kershner a copy of his body-building book!

I'll dig it out and post the excerpt if I can scan it properly. The book needs a new edition but I doubt that will happen any day soon.

[HeavyHitter]

I remember buying that book when I was like 9, but lost it years back...I might re-purchase it myself.

[HeavyHitter]

As I've said several times before, I just want to see new transfers of the Ep 4-6 even if they are not the actual originals (as much as I want to see them). I have no problem watching the current incarnations as much as I dislike certain things about them, but the semi DVD-like/digital picture quality of them is just irking considering how good so many other classic movies on Blu look truly remastered.

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

You also realize George and Marcia often worked in tandem while editing A NEW HOPE, and that she wasn't the only editor? George getting ILM to actually work is what saved A NEW HOPE (part of that was reigning in John Dykstra, whom he promptly fired after the film was completed).


I am so sick of the historical revisionism going on in this thread.

From what I heard, he had a pass then a lot of others including Marcia worked on it as Lucas couldn't get it to come together the way he wanted. He had input but he let them do a lot of stuff because he didn't know how to do it himself. The historical revisionism is that Lucas wrote the script with this huge epic universe in mind, filmed it himself, edited it, walked over to ILM and told them how to do the shots because they were all just idiots off the street and delivered it to the theaters himself.

[Norbie]

At the original release of Episode IV different theatres had different mixes, so how does one know which is the "Official/Original" mix?